Graph-Tech Ghost Info

Started by Elantric, March 10, 2008, 11:15:34 AM

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Elantric

Installing Graphtech Ghost (pics)













Elantric

#1
Graph Tech unlocks a new world of sound with its new Ghost LB63 midi and acoustic pick up system for Floyd Rose.


But observe there will be rumble noises when Palm muting, poor DSP Alt Tuning tracking from mechanical adjacent string energy at the bridge, and signal drop outs during Tremolo dive bombs due to less string  pressure on the Piezo saddle



QuoteWith so many loyal Floyd Rose® shredders, Graph Tech took pains to ensure its GHOST for Floyd Rose® electronics tracks as fast as the fingers of the famous tremolo's most prolific users. Because the Floyd Rose® Tremolo encourages experimentation with sound, its users can expect to take their play or performance to a whole new level with the midi and acoustic features of Graph Tech's industry-leading GHOST system.
The complete system for Floyd Rose® includes GHOST String-Saver™ pickup saddles, Acousti-Phonic pre-amp, Hexpander pre-amp, switches to go from electric to acoustic sound, or from guitar to midi sound, volume pots, and momentary up/down program selector. MSRP for Graph Tech's GHOST® LB63 for Floyd Rose® ranges from USD $299.95 to $319.95.


LB63 GHOST electronic components are also available individually so that guitarists can customize their system to their needs. For instance, it's possible to install only the Acoustiphonic ™ or just the Hexpander ™ components; all of the additional controls are optional.


"Our GHOST system is known for its studio-quality acoustic tones and fast-tracking hexaphonic output. This is because Graph Tech custom-engineered the system's piezo crystals for perfect acoustic output and reverse engineered the hexaphonic component based on the latest midi controller technology," explains Graph Tech founder and President Dave Dunwoodie. "Because the GHOST® LB63 pickups feature Graph Tech String Saver saddles, GHOST musicians also get the benefit of longer string life."


In the GHOST hexaphonic pre-amp, Graph Tech's proprietary harmonic damping system ensures tracking that is faster and more accurate than anything on the market today.


The Graph Tech GHOST system is designed to be compatible with the latest midi controller technology as well as older technology including the Roland V-88, GR-33, GI-20, the Axon 100 midi controllers and many more.


In addition to the LB63 Bridge, GHOST systems are available for most Fender guitars and basses, Fender style saddles, tune-o-matic bridges, and Wilkinson-style bridges.



Call 1-800-388-7011 in the US or 604-940-5353 for more information or to order.

cynegetic

Surprised that there isn't more buzz about this on this forum.

Hope that it isn't quite like the Ibby one where it loses string contact when you dive too low. Unfortunately the pic looks like it only has the piezo contact on the top like the Ibby.

Oh well, can't wait to slap one in on my Carvin.  ;D

clamhands

Yikes- I was really interested having one of these installed on my ESP M2- an internal GK kit would be difficult to install due to the current bridge pickup being right up against the current FR bridge.

Maybe I have this wrong,  but from the looks of the GraphTech website the FR bridge alone is $299 and the required Hexpander "guts" kit is an additional $319. ~$620 in hardware + an estimated $200 in labor to route the guitar for the switches and 13 pin jack, install everything, and re-setup this guitar simply makes this a cost prohibitive modification.  I realize that there's probably some royalty licensing fees for the FR bridge which drives the price up,  and R&D costs on the Hexpander to recoup, but for literally only $50 more  I can buy an *entire brand new* Godin Freeway SA- body, neck, tuners, pickups, AND Ghost MIDI electronics.

Here's hoping that GraphTech reconsiders and makes a package for the LB63 + Hexpander that's much more reasonably priced.

guitarmandp

I already bought everything but the bridge and settles.  I'm just waiting for the right guitar but after reading this message board it sounds like I'm better off buying an internal or external roland unit if I want to use a VG-99 instead of a Ghost system ):

musicman65

ClamHands,

you are right on about the price...you'd have to really want it bad! The on thing you will get with their system that the Godin won't have is ACTUAL FUNCTIONALITY. The Godin won't hold it's tuning under heavy tremolo use and string bending...same is true of nearly all stock trems with a few exceptions. So if anyone really has to wang it hard and wants VG versitility, they better get ready to put up some cash.

bd in tn



elchampion

I'm currently having an ergonomic guitar made by a local luthier here in Austin. I'm on month 2 of an approx. 6 month wait. So I keep changing my mind as to what I want this guitar to have electronics wise. Right now my main guitar is an EJ Strat with a GK-3 attached and I love it very much, so I thought why not make this guitar unique just having the internal roland Hex pick-up. Then I thought why not have both the Ghost Hexaphonic/Acoustophic and roland Hex. Essentially having 2 13 pin connection on the guitar one going to the VG and the other to my Axon. After adding it all up, it total over 600.00 bucks. I think I gonna go with the traditional Axe with the internal Roland Hex and forget about the ghost.

vanceg

Quote from:  elchampion on September 30, 2008, 01:37:30 PM
I'm currently having an ergonomic guitar made by a local luthier here in Austin. I'm on month 2 of an approx. 6 month wait. So I keep changing my mind as to what I want this guitar to have electronics wise. Right now my main guitar is an EJ Strat with a GK-3 attached and I love it very much, so I thought why not make this guitar unique just having the internal roland Hex pick-up. Then I thought why not have both the Ghost Hexaphonic/Acoustophic and roland Hex. Essentially having 2 13 pin connection on the guitar one going to the VG and the other to my Axon. After adding it all up, it total over 600.00 bucks. I think I gonna go with the traditional Axe with the internal Roland Hex and forget about the ghost.

That's what I did with my new ergonomic guitar.... just went with a GK-3 internal kit.... I was going to go for a Floyd with a Ghost - but cost of the bridge made that option MORE expensive than a Steinberger bridge and a headless design...which I've always wanted, so i went that way.


Vance

dr_martijn

I'm actually thinking about going through with this. Finally bought my dream-axe, a '93 MusicMan Silo with Floyd, a week ago and found out the body is too small for an external GK-3. The Internal kit isn't going to fit on a the remaining part of the pickguard between bridge pickup and the floyd. So the LB63 is THE answer. But as said here: it costs a lot. If I do it, I want the entire package, so the hex-preamp and the acoustic preamp. Probably a 1000 euros with labour etc. But then I'll have the most versatile and best playable axe I could ever think of.

vanceg

#9
Quote from:  dr_martijn on November 18, 2008, 02:01:44 AM
I'm actually thinking about going through with this. Finally bought my dream-axe, a '93 MusicMan Silo with Floyd, a week ago and found out the body is too small for an external GK-3. The Internal kit isn't going to fit on a the remaining part of the pickguard between bridge pickup and the floyd. So the LB63 is THE answer. But as said here: it costs a lot. If I do it, I want the entire package, so the hex-preamp and the acoustic preamp. Probably a 1000 euros with labour etc. But then I'll have the most versatile and best playable axe I could ever think of.

If the internal GK3 kit isn't going to fit, how in the world are you going to fit the Ghost system?  I have both (the Ghost on my bass and the GK03 internal on my baritone) and the Ghost takes up more space. 

OH!  You are saying that the GK-3 PICKKUP isn't going to fit between your pickup and the floyd?  That's improbable, but possible I suppose. How much space do you have between the pickup and the Floyd?

Vance

QuoteMod Edit

Most gently move the bridge PU a bit to provide clearance for the Roland Gk PU.

telengard

Quote from:  cynegetic on May 16, 2008, 11:45:34 AM
Surprised that there isn't more buzz about this on this forum.

Hope that it isn't quite like the Ibby one where it loses string contact when you dive too low. Unfortunately the pic looks like it only has the piezo contact on the top like the Ibby.

Oh well, can't wait to slap one in on my Carvin.  ;D

I have a FR on my strat and have the same issue w/ a GK pickup.  When I dive low the strings get too high off the pickup and sound cuts off.  Seems even w/ the Ghost it's an issue.  Too bad.    :(

~telengard
Still stuck in the 1980s.  My mame cabinet, mini home studio, and 8 bit game room:
www.briansturk.com

carlb

I may have the patch name wrong, but the VG-99 does a few patches using its retro Roland synth emulation.

When I use these, I get A LOT of background buzz that the noise gate has trouble keeping in check.

What I notice is that if I grab the strings firmly, buzz goes away. Lightly, as in with play, some buzz, goes in and out.

But if my palm rests on the piezo-ed bridge, it gets loud. If I grab the piezo bridge with my fingers, the buzz goes through the roof.

Anyone else notice this problem?

Obviously, the bridge must not be grounded, while the tailpiece is. Must be a problem with shorting out the saddle piece piezos if you ground the bridge.

That seems odd, the strings are grounded ... why wouldn't that short out the piezos?

If the bridge really can't be grounded for Ghost systems, does Ghost make a plastic cover for tune-o-matic style bridges? I would think that would be absolutely necessary.

By the way, I notice some buzz increase when grabbing the bridge on high-gain settings, but it's not so bad as on the synth patches.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Elantric

#12
QuoteWhen I use these, I get A LOT of background buzz that the noise gate has trouble keeping in check.

What I notice is that if I grab the strings firmly, buzz goes away. Lightly, as in with play, some buzz, goes in and out.

But if my palm rests on the piezo-ed bridge, it gets loud. If I grab the piezo bridge with my fingers, the buzz goes through the roof.

Anyone else notice this problem?

The RMC  subsonic "Rumble Filter"s help control this specific issue:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=177.0

mos6507

Speaking of which, the subsonic filtering has to be part of the firmware enhancements request.
Michael Dolan Doubleneck
Les Paul Custom

VG-99
FTP

Elantric

Not going to happen - its a hardware mod

mos6507

Quote from:  sustainiac on December 12, 2008, 04:27:40 PM
Not going to happen - its a hardware mod

So the VG-99 can have a zillion levels of software EQ but it can't EQ out the subsonic frequency?

Michael Dolan Doubleneck
Les Paul Custom

VG-99
FTP

carlb

It doesn't appear that you can put an software EQ in front of the pickup input. That's the problem. So, the GR-300 emulation happens before any equalization can happen. I would have to think that Roland could make a change to their piezo input tweakers, allowing for a roll-off that you set where you want for the individual strings.

But I'm not holding my breath for Roland to do that, I'll be purchasing one of the RMC modules.

There are two sources for the noise:

1) very low-frequency mechanical noise (RMC's filter helps get rid  of)
2) humm and buzz from the un-grounded bridge on the Graph Tech bridges.

RMC's filter board will mostly help with the first problem. Although it will also clean up the D, G, B, and E strings from some of 60 cycle stuff too.

The un-grounded bridge problem really should be attacked more directly. How, I'm not sure - I think the bridge has to be un-grounded for the piezo saddle pieces to work
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

vanceg

It may be important or at least impormative to remember that Roland doesn't sell or market any Piezo based pickups.  So, this is sort of a request for support of a third party device.  It SEEMS to be (though I am not able to speak for Roland) that they shouldn't "NEED" to support piezo based systems.

Now, PLEASE don't get me wrong: I DO personally think that they should support Piezo based pickups MUCH better than they do. And I am VERY happy they put the firmware upgrade in to (at least partially) correct the issues that exist with the VG-99 and Piezo pickups. It is clear to me that in many ways, Piezo is a much better technology for the tasks that the VG-99 is trying to accomplish.

But I do think that it may help us to formulate our response and make our own personal plans about how we want to deal with this issue to realize that Roland doesn't officially support or market any Piezo pickups to go along with the VG series.

Steve - chime in here if I missed an official Roland statement of support for Piezo.

Vance

mos6507

Roland is kind of the General Motors of the music gear world.  They are calcified and top-down and conservative.  The only reason the VG-99 exists at all is the pestering from the unwashed masses for a next-gen VG.  The GK technology was otherwise withering on the vine and on its way to extinction despite companies like Line6 making a killing on guitar modeling with the Variax.  So I think in the long run there is nothing to be gained by cutting Roland slack.  They need to be continually pestered in the hopes that some of the feedback bleeds through their many layers of beaurocracy to reach the decisionmakers.

Michael Dolan Doubleneck
Les Paul Custom

VG-99
FTP

Elantric

#19

QuoteSo the VG-99 can have a zillion levels of software EQ but it can't EQ out the subsonic frequency?

Its important to provide the sub rumble filter pre A/D conversion
Garbage in / Garbage out

Roland/Boss  succeeded with the GP-10 , but older GR-55, VG-99 require installing the RMC Rumble filters

I always ground all my guitar bridges ( even with EMG PUs)  - particularly my Piezo equipped Bridges , but the Graphtech composite Piezo saddles have high-Z to earth ground, and I get more noise, compared to RMC Piezos.

Vance is correct - As far as Roland is concerned, supporting Piezo GK HEX Pickups with any Roland gear is an after thought and low priority, since it only serves to support third parties - (Godin, RMC, Graphtech, etc.)  and Roland has never made a factory Piezo HEX GK pickup.   
But they acknowledge that many guitarists do own piezo instruments. For years the RMC / Axon combo is/was considered the pinnacle of Guitar to MIDI systems. And Carvin, Brian Moore,and now Gibson make Guitars with Piezo pickups intended to interface with the VG-99. 

Roland gave us VG-99 Firmware 1.04 with adjustable 2 band PRE - EQ slots for each Piezo GK PU choice. This helps, but is not thorough enough to eliminate the extreme low frequency rumble anomalies which can plague many hex piezo GK PU systems. 
If you do prefer to use a Piezo hex PU equipped guitar, its best you install the RMC VG-99 Input Filter board  - as it is a high pass filter, reduces random rumble noises which can occur from simply touching or palm muting the piezo Hex PU bridge - this is an effect which all Piezo pickup systems are very susceptible and prone to create with the VG-99 on many patches - particularly the GR-300 type.   The RMC filter board replaces the missing analog input circuitry  that used to be found on the VG-8, and VG-88, but Roland removed this analog input filter from the VG-99.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,568.0.html

EJROCKS

#20
Hey guys anyone got any advice on what I can do to stop the feedback.
Ive used the noisegates to the fullest.  Ive adjust my string sensitivity.
I was playin with friends today and the feedback was aweful.   It made
everyones ears kring.  I had more control of this with my les paul but my
carvin semi hollow guitar doesnt work well at all at loud volumes.  Anyone
have this problem and if so I appreciate any help.

germanicus

This is one of the reasons why I wish Carvin offered full bodied 13 pin guitars.

One thing I've heard that can help is stuffing the guitar with cotton balls. Just be careful with the electronics.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

Elantric

#22
RMC explains the principle cause of the Piezo saddle feedback you are experiencing at high volume below.

Good news it can be fixed.

read below:
RMC says:
"Note that tune-o-matic bridges are notorious for resonating at a
high-frequency in a front-to-back pendulum mode. This results in a
distinctive ringing which can be heard by tapping the front face of the
bridge with a metallic object even if the string segments are damped,
and wont disappear unless the middle of the bridge is blocked
mechanically with a suitable damping support (like a hardwood block)."



So adjust your bridge height action where you like it using the thumb screws under the bridge, then carefully construct a hardwood block which will be fitted under the the center of the bridge, and make contact with the top of the guitar. If constructed correctly it should be hidden directly under the bridge. 

i know Carvin uses Graphtech Ghost Tune-o-matic piezo bridge and electronics -  - but the identical physics apply. 


Read this whole thread too
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,653.0.html


of course Roland GK-3 PUs can get microphonic, Ive had to pot these in wax  = no more feedback.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43.msg71#msg71

sixeight

I have a semi-hollow body Crafter with a GK3 pickup. On high volumes I also have feedback. You can improve feedback slightly with the anti-feedback effect, though that one doesn't seem to work on all frequencies and the documentation is very poorly. Also using a notch filter (eq., high Q factor, gain -12 dB) may help, but it effects the sound as well. Pity the freq. of the eq. must be set to fixed frequencies...

Elantric

#24
If you have feedback with a Roland GK2A, GK-3A, Yamaha G1D, Axon AIX-103, Axon PU-100

Read this thread

Wax Pot GK pickups
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,43.0.html