FTP- TriplePlay happy, Amplitube not so much

Started by aro, February 20, 2014, 08:23:50 PM

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aro

Here I am, with another possibly stupid question... but I just can't figure this one out. It should be simple...

I can play in TP using the available patches, but when I close TP and open Amplitube, I don't get any sound. In fact I do, it's the hiss of some higher gain amps, but nothing else. The audio preferences/options are just like in TP and the MIDI IN "light" in the lower left corner shows I have MIDI input when I play. Just that nothing comes out...

aro

Amplitube works fine when I go from regular guitar output to audio interface. Excuse my ignorance, but is it even supposed to work with MIDI?

Elantric

#2
QuoteAmplitube works fine when I go from regular guitar output to audio interface. E
Correct -  Remember the FTP Controller mounted on your guitar transmits NO AUDIO.
And you must also make this same audio connection (between Normal 1/4" Guitar Out and Audio interface Instrument Input) for ANY  normal guitar pickup sound using a computer when running the FTP Control App  as a host for Guitar Rig or Amplitube.

Also you must be running the  FTP Control App to have the FTP Controller's three way "Guitar / Mix/Synth" switch actually function.


aro

Got it, thanks. I don't why I was under the wrong impression that Amplitube takes MIDI signals.

GeePeeAxe

Amplitube receives midi control messages and program change messages only.
I didn't try it yet, but the FTP could be used for changing patches in Amplitube.
Maybe the volume knob could be used too, for control changes.

shawnb

Quote from: GeePeeAxe on February 21, 2014, 02:51:08 AM
Amplitube receives midi control messages and program change messages only.
I didn't try it yet, but the FTP could be used for changing patches in Amplitube.
Maybe the volume knob could be used too, for control changes.

Yep - Amplitube accepts CCs & PCs (and other MIDI info such as clock) and can act on them if you configure it to do so. 

Yep - the FTP sends out PCs, and can impact anything that accepts PCs.  One limitation here is that the FTP app does not pass the PCs on to the VSTs it hosts...   It assumes *it* is supposed to process any PC requests.  If it would forward PCs to the VSTs, (rather than changing FTP user patches) that could drastically decrease time to change patches whenever your new patch is in the same VST.  This really ought to be configurable somehow. 

The volume knob, to my knowledge, is restricted to sending CC#7, Volume.  I have not tried remapping CC#7 to another function in a VST.  I do know that some VSTs allow you do override basic defaults, & some don't, just haven't tried CC#7. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

QuoteIf it would forward PCs to the VSTs, (rather than changing FTP user patches) that could drastically decrease time to change patches whenever your new patch is in the same VST.  This really ought to be configurable somehow. 

Realize too that the very latest FTP Control panel Ver 1.2  has a new "Song Mode" -
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.msg75203#msg75203
Optimized patch caching within 'Songs' list. Set up your patches within 'Songs' for nearly instantaneous patch changes. This is a great enhancement for live performance.

shawnb

Yes, that pre-caches patches, to reduce delay of maybe having to load a new VST. 

OK idea, but...  I may be missing something here, but the song concept doesn't work for me.  First off it hijacks the up & down d-pad keys, which now only navigate within a song.  How do you navigate between songs?  The only way I have found is to walk over to your FTP app & navigate by mouse...  Also, the rather large song window obscures the main FTP window.  I don't think that's live performance friendly. 

At the moment I need to use a different VST host (mainly due to the lack of tempo management...  have I mentioned that before?).  It loads all the VSTs I tell it to, once, on powerup (which, yes, takes about 20 seconds).  I then change patches within those synths using PCs, which is rapid.  It manages the tempo across all VSTs. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

To be honest the everchanging FTP Control panel just frustrates me in the end - as  for me the FTP + Ipad covers my needs in a far superior and  reliable package

If only Fishman took heed of users needs and make a robust "D-Pad" that actually worked consistently - as it sits now the D-Pad on FTP Controller is a nothing but a landmine thats too easy to clobber you and make trouble at a live gig. 

musicsingle

++++ I agree the D Pad should be 3 times larger.  I play in the dark and my feeler doesn't feel as well as it used too.

Elantric

#10
DPAD Size is OK - I just desire the D-PAd to work consistently so its a no brainer to engage / disengage  specific  user defined Control Assignments from a menu in the FTP Control panel - and stored in internal flash memory on the FTP Controller. in this manner each FTP user can create the controls needed for live gig use. 

I essentially want FTP Controller D-Pad to duplicate the live gig functionality of my old Casio MG-510 MIDI Strat :
http://www.njaz.com/guitars/casio.htm


Up button = Move up to next higher patch #

Down button = Move down to next lower patch #

Left button = Chromatic Mode On( no pitch bend) or Octave Up

Right button = Chromatic Mode Off( pitch bend) or Octave Down



musicsingle

I find that at least part of the problem is the size of the of the switches on the pad...... It is very easy to hit the wrong pad.

Spider

#12
Elantric,
probably all we need is on this photo, but was missed between project state and final product. As I remeber first rumors about FTP, pedal with some visual "aid", was planned as a next step. Still nothing, even some VST/apps for TriplePlay in HW mode.


Elantric

#13
Thinking this through - and observing after 18 months - there are no signs of anything changing with the Fishman FTP paradigm -

* Raise your hand if you think using the official FTP control Panel on your PC/Mac is just fine and you find no fault with the FTP Controller's 4 way switch D-Pad's operating modes.

Myself  - I consider the FTP Controller's 4 way switch D-Pad's operating modes a lurking landmine of catastrophe, as its all too easy to accidentally hit the left or right D-Pad Switch and wind up in no mans land forcing you to walk over to your PC/Mac to press the escape key on your PC/Mac Qwerty Keyboard just to close the annoying pop up window! 

Today I feel exactly the same as what I posted here a year ago:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9087.msg65508#msg65508



I HATE THE NEW FTP Control Panel POP UP MENU!!!!  - one more minefield to clobber your FTP  at a live gig - Does anyone at Fishman consult working professional live musicians? Trust me, at live gigs - i play my heart out to the crowd - I'm not a "SCREEN GAZER" forced to always re-check my Macbook LCD display at my live performances to check my twitter feed or verify why my Tripleplay is not behaving . Give me a D-PAd that works as a real time performance control for the worlds fastest Guitar to MIDI system so I can actually use this system at a live gig!

Give me the ability to remap the FTP Controller's 4 D-pad buttons to perform solid repeatable "point and shoot" functions I require , like chromatic on off or octave up / down shift.

But what a pain the new FTP Control D-Pad user interface is  - with the left  / right Dpad buttons forcing this lame new pop up Menu right in the middle of my FTP Control Panel !
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
To make matters worse, it Requires pressing the Escape key on my Mac TO MAKE IT GO AWAY.

One day I hope Fishman gets feedback from actual  Live performance MIDI Guitarists, instead of the current crop of FTP users who must only play at home or sitting like a DJ in front of their computer the whole gig. If I did that at a live show I would be fired

As it stands today the FTP D pads are rather useless ( I'm going to Super glue mine )  , and can spoil the fun should you accidentally hit "Left " or  "Right" D-Pad button at a live show. Forces me to run over to my Computer and hit the Escape Key.  This is a really clobbered user interface that gets in the users way far more than providing any functional value for live gigging use, where FTP+iPad running SampleTank works 1000 times better IMHO.


I would suggest FTP users to ignore the controls and D pad on FTP controller - and instead get a Livid Instruments Guitar Wing for wireless remote control
of your PC/Mac.


Review the NAMM Show demos, and recall that the Fishman Product demonstrator had fast patch changes and no issues controlling FTP  - then I recall I took pics of his setup and upon further review discovered he does not rely on the actual FTP Control app.


I keep recalling the actual Burr Johnson NAMM demo Macbook apps that he actually used for the FTP demos - which are not part of the shipping software.

more here:

(Read all details here)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9235.msg66886#msg66886

----





https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5188.msg55218#msg55218

Screen shots of Burr Johnson's NAMM Demo Macbook Pro

Yes - Burr's screen is very dusty after 4 days of NAMM!

I see the following apps being employed  - These are not included in TriplePlay software bundle
MIDIPipe
OnStage
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/37507/onstage
http://www.fluqe.com/newnewssoft.htm

Logic Pro










shawnb

#14
I would be happy if FTP just added tempo management.   I could work with that.   Without tempo, the app is useless for my purposes.

I have been using a freebie live host, Live Professor.  I'm ok with it, but it doesn't remember the whole setup, so I have to load a bunch of settings each time I use it.   If I forget something I'm hosed & my whole set is screwed up...  .  It's starting to bother me.  I was hoping it would tide me over until ftp support of tempo, but now I'm not sure.  I'm about to give up on the FTP app. 

Cantabile looks awesome, but you know me, programmability is important.  I'm seriously thinking of building a rig around Usine Hollyhock.....Looks lovely...
   http://www.sensomusic.org/wiki2/doku.php?id=hollyhock

Haven't pulled the trigger yet...   Will likely do so soon...

If anyone has Hollyhock experience, I'd love to hear it!

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp