FTP software problems with Sonar X3 Dimension Pro and Rapture

Started by keenblade, January 30, 2014, 12:00:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

keenblade

Hi,
When I chose Dimension Pro or Rapture as a vst synth within Trileplay software, they both load. But I can't use the program browser to select sounds within both rapture and dimension pro. Other than program browser, there are two buttons for loading previous and next sound which works, but they only allow the first subset of sounds. They let me to choose only in the first sound set category. Their user interface and engine are the same. They work great within a DAW (sonar x3), but do not work inside triplelay. I need to use tripleplay software because it allows me to choose pitch bend style (I use smooth mostly) and adjust my midi controller, which I can't if I use tripleplay as a midi controller without its own software.
Any idea?

Some info:
Tripleplay software ver: 1.2.36.47
Rapture ver: 1.22
Dimension Pro ver: 1.5

EDIT: Some problems (missing sounds)solved by Cakewalk with an update.
I've learned "Two Track method". Thanks to Shawn.
No life is too small to save.

shawnb

Yes, I have the same issues. Also, there are a number of Cakewalk proprietary synths that won't run at all. 

SUGGESTION 1 - Use the "Two Track" method:

I suggest using the "two track" method, described elsewhere here.  It's much simpler and has a lot of benefits over attempting to run the FTP VST as a synth host within your DAW/SONAR.   (This technique was introduced to us by the FTP app's developer in the early days of the FTP app.)

In the "Two track" Technique, your first track runs the FTP VST.  You do NOT use it to host a VSTi/synth - you set it up to run a "Hardware Synth" patch.  This instance of the FTP app is used to set the FTP parameters as desired. 

The second track is a normal synth track within your DAW/SONAR, as if you were using a keyboard.  Only instead of setting the synth's MIDI input to be from your keyboard, set it to use the Fishman TriplePlay MIDI port. 

Benefits are:
  -  It's simpler
  -  Your DAW deals with any 32/64 bit conversion - no complexity or JBridge
  -  Any proprietary synths in your DAW will work (SONAR users take note...)
  -  As in this example, this also bypasses some UI issues
  -  Tempo management is controlled by your DAW (e.g., to coordinate delays, FX tails, etc); this is a current limitation of the FTP app, it does not pass MIDI clock to the hosted synth
  -  (OLD NEWS - Continuous controllers, Program Changes, etc., can be fed to your synth; this WAS until recently a limitation of the FTP app...  If you are still experiencing this issue, update your FTP software)

As you can see there are a number of benefits to using this method. 

The only drawback I can find to the "two track" method is that if you have multiple synths and want different FTP settings for each, you need to setup multiple 'Hardware Synth' configs and choose the right one before using/recording the different instruments.

SUGGESTION 2 - Hit the other button - Workaround specific to SONAR's Program select box:

Don't hit the "EMPTY Program" graphic like normal.  Immediately to the right, you'll see a document icon - use that instead.  This document icon opens the equivalent Windows file browser, and really does the same thing.   

I'm certain this issue is due to the fact that the Cakewalk proprietary synths use common routines that are NOT in their respective .vst folders.   I have no idea where they are; I've tried a few things to try to nail a proper fix (changing startup directories, adding cakewalk executable directories to the VST scan directory list...) but none worked.  In the meanwhile, the two workarounds above work fine.

Hope this makes sense...

Shawn

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

keenblade

Shawn, thank you very much.
Those methods works for me,too.
I can live with that until cakewalk fixes this.
No life is too small to save.

keenblade

Some problems are solved by Cakewalk. Today Dimension Pro was updated within sonar x3 maintenance and now everything works as it supposed be. Program browser now works fine both for Rapture and Dimension Pro.
I am so happy.

Edit: FTP software still has Program browser bug.
No life is too small to save.

shawnb

That's good to know.   I use X2 now, haven't yet upgraded to X3.  It has been like this all along.   I wasn't expecting them to fix it... 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

keenblade

Shawn,
I discovered using FTP as a standalone still has the Program browser bug both for Rapture and Dimension Pro. Good news is within Sonar X3, FTP as a vst container works great. I think that means sonar sends some environment variables to FTP software that makes it work with Program browser. So I think you are right by saying:
Quote from: shawnb on January 30, 2014, 01:24:21 PM
I'm certain this issue is due to the fact that the Cakewalk proprietary synths use common routines that are NOT in their respective .vst folders.
No life is too small to save.

shawnb

Can you host, within X3, one of the "protected" synths?   Like True Piano?
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

keenblade

Quote from: shawnb on February 02, 2014, 07:15:04 AM
Can you host, within X3, one of the "protected" synths?   Like True Piano?
I tried to host True Piano with FTW, It says:
QuoteThis TruePianos Edition only works with Cakewalk.
Click this box to purchase a full version.
I tried it within X3 within FTW as a synth container. The same message pops up.
At least it works în X3 without FTP container.
No life is too small to save.

shawnb


Yes, and this surprises me because it IS running within SONAR.  (Yes, I know, within FTP within SONAR, actually...)

This is another benefit of the "two track" method - you can play ANYTHING YOU OWN...

For me, the killer reason for using the "two track" approach remains tempo management.  I do a lot of jamming with my buddies.  When my drummer shifts tempo, I want to go tap something with my foot somewhere & have EVERYTHING sync'd.  At the moment, neither the FTP app nor the FTP VST pass MIDI clock to hosted VSTi's.  This alone forces me to bypass the FTP app/vst as a VSTi host altogether.

If working within your DAW, if you're using the FTP host, you can work around this by just setting tempos in multiple places, but you can't vary tempo over time. 

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

keenblade

Two track method is still the best option.
Btw, I created another thread in steam forums which cakewalk devs responded. Hopefully they will look into it. Their support is great. Here is the link to follow that thread.
No life is too small to save.

shawnb


Wow...   The Cake developers frequent Steam?     I wasn't aware they even covered Sonar on that forum... 

Garry's Mod?   Yes, definitely.

Sonar?  Good to know.   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

keenblade

Actually, I bought Sonar X3 on Steam.  Steam sells software, too.  Best thing, I can use Sonar on any computer which has steam installed.  Plus there's Garry's Mod, when you're tired of sequencing :)
No life is too small to save.

shawnb

Out of curiosity, I just confirmed that Rapture works fine in another VST host (LiveProfessor).   So this may indeed be an FTP issue.  I'm sure it's a simple path issue somewhere, some object is not being found. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

keenblade

Quote from: shawnb on February 03, 2014, 01:52:18 PM
Out of curiosity, I just confirmed that Rapture works fine in another VST host (LiveProfessor).   So this may indeed be an FTP issue.  I'm sure it's a simple path issue somewhere, some object is not being found.
I tried the same thing in Presonus Studio One and they worked fine. My bet is on Ftp having troubles with paths or objects like you said.
No life is too small to save.