Owners of GP-10.. willing to help..me to validate my understanding of GP-10

Started by pasha811, August 26, 2014, 07:39:09 AM

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pasha811

First of all, thanks to everybody for all of your posts and a particular spotlight on Elantric for snapshots of the Tone editor and all manuals! I had the chance to know the GP-10 better. The real thing will arrive in my beloved shop at the end of the month. I can't wait as my GAS is increasing..If only the Tone Editor would work in absence of a GP-10 unit.. Grunt!  :'(
I would use the GP-10 mainly for Live situations so here are the functions that are important to me, with my comments.. Pls validate...Thank in advance for your time!  8)

- UP/DOWN Pedal will switch Patches by +1, -1
- WHA,FX,AMP,EQ,CHORUS,DLY,REV can be placed in any order, however if you want a Comp+Distortion chain you can't because both are part of the FX block.
- There is no POLY COMPRESSOR as in the VG99, however the POLY DISTORTION is there so a POLY DIST + COMP chain is possible (and you loose all other FX)
- The Slow Attach POLY FX is there.. but I sense from the manual that it might be different..
- I think that many patches use the AMP saturation to generate a very good distorted sound for backings & leads.
- Volume Pedal can be defaulted to control FV (Foot Volume) in every patch.
- GK Buttons S1 & S2 can be used to control parameters as well like I do on the VG99.
- CTRL1/CTRL2 Pedal can be used to Assign Functions to Parameters, like : Switch AMP Gain Channel On-Off, Switch REV On-Off..
- I assume that CTRL3/CTRL4 do the same with an auxiliary, bought separately FP-6 or equivalent.
- CTRL1 to CTRL4 can be assigned to select 4 patches directly (as I can do with the five buttons on VG99 panel)
- LiveSets are a list of adjacent Patches that can be selected (like on old Roland JXP I guess) with UP&DOWN pedal so if you program that accurately you can have patch 1 to 5 selected when using up/down pedal.
- The LiveSets are circular (when you reach the end of a LiveSet you start from the beginning when you press the UP pedal)
- You can have several LiveSets on GP-10 but only one is active at a time. The active LiveSet can be selected via the GP-10 panel but not via CTRL1-CTRL2 Pedals.

Thank you again in advance, your comments will help me a lot.
Best Regards
Pasha





Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

MusicOverGear

Sounds like you are coming from VG-99, which I never tried. I have perused the manual though. I will try to answer as many of your questions as I can.

Quote-UP/DOWN Pedal will switch Patches by +1, -1
Yes
Quote- WHA,FX,AMP,EQ,CHORUS,DLY,REV can be placed in any order, however if you want a Comp+Distortion chain you can't because both are part of the FX block.
Technically yes, but I have learned that if I start with a sound+feel in mind I can pretty much get it with the GP-10. E.g. Comp + OD makes me think "new" country, for which I would use the DynaComp model in FX and the tweed model amp. The amps actually have a lot of control within just the amp model, including a compression control so you can get e.g. more even, less spiky clean twin. IMHO the limits of what the GP-10 can do are far beyond what a typical musician needs.
Quote- There is no POLY COMPRESSOR as in the VG99, however the POLY DISTORTION is there so a POLY DIST + COMP chain is possible (and you loose all other FX)
There is poly distortion. You can add any effects (including FX, where the compressor lives) afterward. AFAIK there is no way to add the compression before modeling, where it would make more difference.
Quote- The Slow Attach POLY FX is there.. but I sense from the manual that it might be different..
On the GP-10 the POLY FX are pretty hard-coded (except for touch-wah, which has more parameters). You change a few macro parameters but you can hear a lot of stuff going on that you can't change or turn off. E.g. the Slow Pad model has a heavy pitch effect (-12 and +12) that would be nice to be able to tone down a bit, but you can't. Also the attack time is hard-coded. One control, Color, only makes any sense all the way off. I'm sure I will find a use for this model, but I haven't yet. Slow Pad is really nice, but it's more of a hard-wired patch than a flexible effect.
Quote- I think that many patches use the AMP saturation to generate a very good distorted sound for backings & leads.
Not sure I follow this one. I have no familiarity with the factory patches, except my memory that they sounded like every other modeler that kids play in Guitar Center. I spent my first days on the GP-10 cloning patches from Apple Logic software. There is a fat switch on those soft synths that I mimicked using amp saturation on the GP-10. Is that the kind of thing you are talking about? That kind of stuff just goes on and on with the GP-10. E.g. the pitch effect is like a mini-POG that you can use to make up for the lack of a third oscillator. You can use the Mutron type auto-wah as the filter envelope for the WAVE SYNTH, etc etc etc. The limitations look stifling when I read them on paper, but when I dig in and play with it I find that my creativity really loves the limits. Plus it forces me to use my ears instead of recipes.
Quote- Volume Pedal can be defaulted to control FV (Foot Volume) in every patch.
Yes. Even better use EXP1 for two parameters plus a switch, and use an external expression pedal for FV, since EXP2 limited to one function per patch, anyway. Maximizes real estate IMHO
Quote- GK Buttons S1 & S2 can be used to control parameters as well like I do on the VG99.
Yes you can assign globally or per-patch
Quote- CTRL1/CTRL2 Pedal can be used to Assign Functions to Parameters, like : Switch AMP Gain Channel On-Off, Switch REV On-Off..
Yes I haven't found a parameter so far that can't be controlled with those buttons.
Quote- I assume that CTRL3/CTRL4 do the same with an auxiliary, bought separately FP-6 or equivalent.
I don't use those but at a glance in Boss Tone Studio they seem to have the same assignments available
Quote- CTRL1 to CTRL4 can be assigned to select 4 patches directly (as I can do with the five buttons on VG99 panel)
Not sure about that - I haven't seen that in the assigns. Better check the screen shots of Boss Tone Studio first if that is a deal breaker for you. I use MIDI, which is working great for me.
Quote- LiveSets are a list of adjacent Patches that can be selected (like on old Roland JXP I guess) with UP&DOWN pedal so if you program that accurately you can have patch 1 to 5 selected when using up/down pedal.
- The LiveSets are circular (when you reach the end of a LiveSet you start from the beginning when you press the UP pedal)
- You can have several LiveSets on GP-10 but only one is active at a time. The active LiveSet can be selected via the GP-10 panel but not via CTRL1-CTRL2 Pedals.
I may have completely missed the point on this subject, but here is what I understood about LiveSets: it's just a container file for patches. That's it. When I click "Apply Live Set" inside Boss Tone Studio, it just dumps those patches in order onto the GP-10, starting at 01. I just use LiveSets as an organizing column in the librarian, plus as a container to back up patches.

The Patch Extent feature can be applied to any range of patches. Here's what I was doing before I got MIDI working:

  • pick 3 patches in library
  • put them in any 3 adjacent slots on GP-10
  • set patch extent to those three slots
  • turn ON patch extent
E.g. guitar, acoustic, pad, so i could use the up/dn buttons for direct access to any of the 3 patches, regardless of which one i was on. I got good at really piling a lot of sounds into one patch LOL - i still only have one patch for all my electric guitar sounds

pasha811

Quote from: MusicOverGear on August 27, 2014, 03:18:14 PM
Sounds like you are coming from VG-99, which I never tried. I have perused the manual though. I will try to answer as many of your questions as I can.
Yes Technically yes, but I have learned that if I start with a sound+feel in mind I can pretty much get it with the GP-10. E.g. Comp + OD makes me think "new" country, for which I would use the DynaComp model in FX and the tweed model amp. The amps actually have a lot of control within just the amp model, including a compression control so you can get e.g. more even, less spiky clean twin. IMHO the limits of what the GP-10 can do are far beyond what a typical musician needs. There is poly distortion. You can add any effects (including FX, where the compressor lives) afterward. AFAIK there is no way to add the compression before modeling, where it would make more difference. On the GP-10 the POLY FX are pretty hard-coded (except for touch-wah, which has more parameters). You change a few macro parameters but you can hear a lot of stuff going on that you can't change or turn off. E.g. the Slow Pad model has a heavy pitch effect (-12 and +12) that would be nice to be able to tone down a bit, but you can't. Also the attack time is hard-coded. One control, Color, only makes any sense all the way off. I'm sure I will find a use for this model, but I haven't yet. Slow Pad is really nice, but it's more of a hard-wired patch than a flexible effect.Not sure I follow this one. I have no familiarity with the factory patches, except my memory that they sounded like every other modeler that kids play in Guitar Center. I spent my first days on the GP-10 cloning patches from Apple Logic software. There is a fat switch on those soft synths that I mimicked using amp saturation on the GP-10. Is that the kind of thing you are talking about? That kind of stuff just goes on and on with the GP-10. E.g. the pitch effect is like a mini-POG that you can use to make up for the lack of a third oscillator. You can use the Mutron type auto-wah as the filter envelope for the WAVE SYNTH, etc etc etc. The limitations look stifling when I read them on paper, but when I dig in and play with it I find that my creativity really loves the limits. Plus it forces me to use my ears instead of recipes. Yes. Even better use EXP1 for two parameters plus a switch, and use an external expression pedal for FV, since EXP2 limited to one function per patch, anyway. Maximizes real estate IMHO Yes you can assign globally or per-patchYes I haven't found a parameter so far that can't be controlled with those buttons. I don't use those but at a glance in Boss Tone Studio they seem to have the same assignments availableNot sure about that - I haven't seen that in the assigns. Better check the screen shots of Boss Tone Studio first if that is a deal breaker for you. I use MIDI, which is working great for me.  I may have completely missed the point on this subject, but here is what I understood about LiveSets: it's just a container file for patches. That's it. When I click "Apply Live Set" inside Boss Tone Studio, it just dumps those patches in order onto the GP-10, starting at 01. I just use LiveSets as an organizing column in the librarian, plus as a container to back up patches.

The Patch Extent feature can be applied to any range of patches. Here's what I was doing before I got MIDI working:

  • pick 3 patches in library
  • put them in any 3 adjacent slots on GP-10
  • set patch extent to those three slots
  • turn ON patch extent
E.g. guitar, acoustic, pad, so i could use the up/dn buttons for direct access to any of the 3 patches, regardless of which one i was on. I got good at really piling a lot of sounds into one patch LOL - i still only have one patch for all my electric guitar sounds

Thank for answers MusicOverGear! Very useful to me.
I come from VG99 as you noted.
Let me try to fill the gaps where I was confusing.

Distortion.
Before playing with pedal boards I was using my Fender AMP to play both clean and distorted sound for rock solos. I can have clean guitar or lead guitar with distortion by pressing the foot switch (My Fender Amp has two channels one clean and the other with GAIN control). I am used to VG99 COSM AMP simulation of that behaviour.
Some COSM AMP model saturate very well, close to their physical counterpart IMHO. Usually I want a compressor followed by a distortion (OD-1 or whatever) block or a COSM AMP with 'SOLO' channel ON and boosted GAIN. The Compressor + Distortion Chain looks impossible in GP-10 so I was thinking about Distortion Poly FX + Compressor (which you confirmed) or Compressor + COSM AMP with 'SOLO' channel ON and boosted GAIN, which I think should be possible and should sound equal or better than my VG99 and give me distortion peace of mind :-)

Livesets.
You did not miss the point. Actually your answer is very useful. The idea of Liveset I had from JX8P (the synth of my keyboardist) was not explained in full. Now should be: You have let's say 100 user patches. For every song you need to play you create a liveset with the exact sequence of sounds (Piano, strings, marimba, lead) you need to play that song. You create and maintain Liveset using the JX8P interface. So Liveset1 can be Patch 1,55,67,90 and Liveset2 can be patch 3,44,23,11,44.. good times.. no software in the 80's :-).. So ad the press of a button you could use Patch Up/Down button to select patches in real time. That's why I was tricked to think that GP-10 liveset worked in the same way. However, it looks like it's more a Librarian thing, so it does not work without Tone Editor software. Conversely the Patch Extend feature looks promising to me even if it's not dynamic as it was in the JX8P.. I could use it to have Clean+Chorus,Acoustic, Synth, Lead, Backing and  circle through them. BTW is Patch Extend circular? i.e. when reaching the bottom of the list of patches another press of the UP pedal brings you back to patch 1 of three?

Direct Assign. On VG99 panel I have  5 buttons to select the 'best 5 patches'.. I love it. I use it when recording with my DAW a lot. It speeds up the process. In the Tone Editor screenshots I guess I have spotted a look alike function which, btw is also reported in the manual in the control section, page 13:
C1–4 Pat. Sel Specifies the patch number to which you will move directly when PATCH SEL is selected and you press the pedal or switch. Looks like it does what I need, just wanted to be sure because CTRL1-CTRL4 are switch and the pedal word in the manual got me confused.. but your explanation of the Internal EXP PEDAL helped me.

I did not ask about Alternate Tunings because I am sure 100% they are the same as in VG99 and can be switched on/off using CTRL1-CTRL4 or the EXP PEDAL.

So far so good, Thank you soooo much!
When GP-10 finally arrives in my shop I know where to look.

Best Regards
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

MusicOverGear

Hey you were right about selecting patches with the CTL pedals. I just looked and there is an option for PATCH SELECT in the global assigns for CTL 1, 2, 3, 4 - so you were right about that. I don't know how many times my eyes skimmed that and I never noticed. I even wrote in my first review of the GP-10 that I wished it could do this LOL

One more thing I should say about the GP-10 is that the OSC Synth is a colossal monster. It is extremely capable and sounds amazing. The factory patches don't really feature its strengths. If you're scrolling through the Roland patches, just imagine adding a Roland Gaia to what you're hearing and that's closer to what it can actually do.

BTW I am listening to the music you link to in your sig - very nice. Are you a Tribal Tech/Gary Willis fan? I hear similar influence in the song The Growl, plus lots of other stuff. Very cool!

pasha811

Quote from: MusicOverGear on August 28, 2014, 03:45:19 AM
Hey you were right about selecting patches with the CTL pedals. I just looked and there is an option for PATCH SELECT in the global assigns for CTL 1, 2, 3, 4 - so you were right about that. I don't know how many times my eyes skimmed that and I never noticed. I even wrote in my first review of the GP-10 that I wished it could do this LOL

One more thing I should say about the GP-10 is that the OSC Synth is a colossal monster. It is extremely capable and sounds amazing. The factory patches don't really feature its strengths. If you're scrolling through the Roland patches, just imagine adding a Roland Gaia to what you're hearing and that's closer to what it can actually do.

BTW I am listening to the music you link to in your sig - very nice. Are you a Tribal Tech/Gary Willis fan? I hear similar influence in the song The Growl, plus lots of other stuff. Very cool!

You can't imagine how many features I had before my eyes with VG99 and only discovered that years later..LOL!
VG99 it's a journey not a destination and I guess GP-10 it's the same :-)
Thank you for listening to my music, I am glad if someone enjoys it. 2012 Album, Hexigrams was influenced by VG99 baby..I got in Dec 2010. Since then I have reduced any keyboard playing to none and try to use only native VG99 sounds adding very little Guitar to MIDI here and there. I also play the Bass Guitar and I record it through the VG99 to get more punch and a good Octaver :-).
Although I was not a Tribal Tech/Gary Willis fan I will become one, thanks to your comparison. I went there and listened to some music and is great! My Jazz influence comes from various Jazz bands, mainly Pat Metheney, Simon Phillips, Allan Holdsworth and many others, Jim Ridl, Opus Five. I think I have mixed a lot of stuff in my mind.. like happens to everybody :-)

Best Regards,
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Elantric

Suggest watch this video which goes deep into the Boss GP-10 editing with the Boss GP-10 Tone Studio Editor and explains most of the possible FX signal routing


pasha811

Quote from: Elantric on August 29, 2014, 01:10:46 PM
Suggest watch this video which goes deep into the Boss GP-10 editing with the Boss GP-10 Tone Studio Editor and explains most of the possible FX signal routing



Elantric. Super!

:-) Thanks a Lot! :)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/