Asio failure on TriplePlay App with POD Hd

Started by fusionman, March 29, 2014, 09:24:08 AM

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fusionman

Hello, i have trouble with my Line 6 Pod Hd Desktop as an audio Interface with the TriplePlay Standalone app. When i'm going to select the audio device, "POD HD" on the preferences, the system shows me an error message like " Error when trying to open audio device" and "asio driver open failure".

With the Daw software it goes well, but not with the standalone app, I reinstalled all the drivers (from Line 6 and from Fishman) and it's the same...

Any suggestions?

Thanks :)

Elantric

#1
Remember "official" ASIO drivers only support running one physical audio device with one audio app at a time. The exception are "MultiClient ASIO Drivers - (like used with Fender Mustang Amp / Floor) 

So be sure to shut down Line6 HD Edit, or any other apps that may be accessing the POD HD

As a work around - In the Tripleplay Manual they specifically suggest Windows users use the third party ASIO4ALL driver (seems they removed this statement in the latest FTP Manual
http://www.fishman.com/software/tripleplay/download/tripleplay_user_guide.pdf

http://tippach.business.t-online.de/asio4all/intro.html
but that creates other issues  - typically your audio latency increases because the ASIO4ALL driver actually uses the native Windows WDM driver .
Its a major battle to configure any Windows PC for low latency Audio when running multiple apps at the same time Seldom do people speak of such things in the same sentence.

(I gave up! Hello Cupertinoans a new Apple Macbook Pro with CORE AUDIO drivers ) 

http://skatter.com/2011/08/in-high-res-future-apple-cupertino-campus-photos/
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Q-for-ASIO-experts-1-input-to-2-apps-simultaneously-m1348879.aspx

Contact Fishman support

Hopefully some Windows die hards ( Shawnb) can set you in the right direction

fusionman

Hello Elantic. Thanks for your help!! How have you guessed that PC?  ;) Yes, the problem is that even without any other application or browser etc. Tripleplay shows me the error message or directly closes. It's a strange thing  that using a daw, it works well... Anyway, the thing is that Mac seems better!!

Thank you very much for your help!   8)

Greetings

Elantric

#3
QuoteHow have you guessed that PC? 

Because "ASIO" is a Windows only thing - Macs use Core Audio
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/669297-core-audio-vs-asio-2011-a.html

PLEASE! if you do find a solution for your Windows ASIO with POD HD  / Fishman Tripleplay - please post your discovery here as this will help many other folks trying to work out this Same issue !

fusionman


Elantric

Might try this route

http://jackaudio.org/jack_on_windows

Using JACK on Windows
Introduction
As on other platforms, JACK on Windows is a multi-purpose application that connects audio and MIDI using the Windows system drivers... It connects (OUTPUT) to those audio drivers using the PortAudio project (so Jack can connect using dsound, wmme, WDMKS, ASIO, WASAPI, and WaveRT) depending on what the soundcard's drivers support. Currently Jack for Windows only supports 32-bit applications, but a new version is currently being tested that supports both 32-bit and 64-bit audio applications. If you are working with 64-bit applications then contact the Jack Developers list for more information.

JACK is an Audio API (Application Programming Interface) that can be used natively by audio application developers. There are already some existing *native* JACK for Windows applications (that is audio applications that use the JACK API directly). Through the API, Jack for Windows offers native Jack connections (INPUT), and the JackRouter ASIO driver (INPUT) that offers an ASIO linker to the Jack Audio Server.

So any ASIO application will be able to use the JackRouter ASIO linker to connect to Jack, and Jack can then be used to route that audio to other applications connected to the Jack Audio Server, or out to the system sound device.

Several applications have native Jack support:

Harisson MixBus : http://www.harrisonconsoles.com/mixbus/website/
MuseScore : http://musescore.org/
foo-yc20 : http://code.google.com/p/foo-yc20/
SND-RT : http://archive.notam02.no/arkiv/doc/snd-rt/
Radium : http://users.notam02.no/~kjetism/radium/
Fluidsynth for Windows (part of the jOrgan Windows packages).
JNAJack, Java bindings for JACK : https://code.google.com/p/java-audio-utils/wiki/GettingStarted_JNAJack
Native Jack applications can make use of the full power of the JACK audio and MIDI connection system (for instance, they can open or close Jack connections from within the application, rather than having to set an ASIO driver to use use JackRouter), also, the use of natively provided Jack ports provides the ability to sync audio streams between applications.

The JackRouter ASIO driver is "only" there so that users are able to use ASIO applications in the Windows context of JACK, but this connection obviously has some limitations that native applications won't have.

Jack uses a 'Server <-> Client' architecture to supply the audio connection between your sound device and the ASIO application(s). When you run Jack PortAudio, this starts the Jack Audio Server. Once the Jack Audio Server is running, the JackRouter driver is then able to create connections between clients (ASIO applications) and the Jack Audio Server. These connections can be seen in the Jack Control -> Connect Screen.

If the Jack Audio Server is not running, then JackRouter will not be available to your ASIO application(s), and an error report may be shown.

Starting from 1.9.8 version, the installer exists in two versions:

A pure 32 bit version to be used with older systems (typically XP).
A mixed 64/32 bit version that will allow 64 and 32 bit applications to be used at the same time with a running 64 bit JACK server.
By default, JackRouter is set to provide 4 Input and 4 Output connections. This setting can be customized to suite your needs by editing the JackRouter.ini file within your C:\Program Files\Jack\32bits (or C:\Program Files\Jack\64bits folder depending of the JackRouter 32 or 64 bit version). In Windows Explorer, right click on the file and choose the 'Edit' option. Change the settings in the [IO] portion of the file.

Installation and Configuration
Download the Jack Audio Connection installer for Windows from the download page.
Use the installer (either the 32 bit or the mixed 64/32 bit one).
From the Windows Start menu, locate the Jack folder and right click on Jack Portaudio icon, then select 'Send to Desktop' (this will place a shortcut on your desktop)
Now go to your desktop and right click on the Jack PortAudio shortcut, and then select 'Properties' (use right click to open 'Properties')
Add the following information to the 'Target' property: "C:\Program Files\Jack\jackd.exe" -R -S -d portaudio -d "ASIO::ASIO4ALL v2" [This configures Jack to use the ASIO4ALL v2 driver, if you have another ASIO device then configure the 'Target' property with that device name. For a list of all the audio devices on your system that Jack can connect to, open a Command Prompt, change directory to the Jack folder (i.e. cd "c:\Program Files (x86)\Jack\") then run this command: jackd -d portaudio -l (that's an 'ell' for List, not a 'one') , this will present you with the list of supported devices.]
Click on OK.
Again, from the Windows Start menu, locate the Jack folder and right click on the Jack Control icon, then select 'Send to Desktop' (placing a Jack Control shortcut on your desktop)
You will now have the Jack PortAudio icon (which starts the Jack Audio Connection Kit's audio server), and the Jack Control icon (which allows you to configure the connections between ASIO programs and your hardware). The sequence of usage is to start with the Jack PortAudio icon, allow the audio server to start, and then start Jack Control.

When the Jack Audio Server is running (i.e. your Jack PortAudio command prompt window reports that Jack is starting and remains open), the JackRouter ASIO interface will be available to all ASIO capable applications.

For an overview of the command line options supported by the Jack Audio Server please see: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/man/man1/jackd.1.html

The Jack v 1.9.8/64bits/JackRouter.dll still has to be registered "manually" with regsvr32 - so please try the following command to register the 64-bit JackRouter:

regsvr32 "C:\Program Files (x86)\Jack v1.9.8\64bits\JackRouter.dll"

Be sure to unregister previous versions before installing the new one.

Troubleshooting Tip. If you are unable to register the 64-bit JackRouter, while in Windows Explorer navigate to \windows\system32, and right click on "cmd.exe" and chose "Run As Administrator" from the context menu. The open a command prompt, navigated to \Program Files (x86)\Jack v1.9.8\64bits, and then enter regsvr32 JackRouter.dll at the prompt.

Uninstalling JACK
Use the provided uninstaller to install JACK from your machine. Note that because the 64-bit JackRouter had to be manually registered as described before, you'll have to unregister it as well. Use the following command to unregister the 64-bit JackRouter:
regsvr32 /u "C:\Program Files (x86)\Jack v1.9.8\64bits\JackRouter.dll"

Connecting Audio Applications
Start Jack PortAudio
Make sure that the Jack Audio Server is running by checking the command prompt window for the report that will say something like this:
jackdmp 1.9.8
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
Copyright 2004-2011 Grame.
jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10
Cannot lock down memory area (No error)
With the Jack Audio Server started, the JackRouter ASIO driver will be available for your ASIO supported applications.
Within your audio application, select JackRouter as the audio device.
Now start Jack Control
Click on the Connect button
In the Audio tab window, on the left hand side you will see the Readable Clients (audio inputs to your computer) and Application Output ports (audio being routed into the Jack Audio Server via the JackRouter ASIO driver), and on the right hand side you will see the Writable Clients (audio outputs from your computer, i.e. your speaker ports) and Application Input ports (the ASIO audio-in ports from your applications configured with the JackRouter ASIO driver)
To route the sound from your application to your speakers, click on the audio producing port (Readable) on the left hand side, then click on the audio output port (Writable i.e. system), and then click on the Connect button.
You can route the output of ASIO applications into the inputs of other ASIO applications (like a VST host application), and then connect the audio output of that application to your system output (or a combination of both).

Multiple channel audio is also supported, but may require more configuration than the simple setup described here.

Using MIDI
A slave backend using the Windows MME MIDI API can be used. You will need to add "-X winmme" in the JACK command line, like for example: "jackd -S -X winmme -d portaudio". This can be done if starting JACK in a terminal, or by adding the "-X winmme" in the "Server Path" in QJackCtl setup.

fusionman

Hello to all. I've been trying to see how I could fix the problema. First, i mail the tripleplay support and they response me this:

"There may be an issue between the Line 6 interface drivers and our Fishman software.  When you open that type of driver, it will often try to access software that allows adjustment of the line 6 settings to harmonize them with the triple play settings.  If the two softwares have difficulty communicating, then there can be a crash due to the conflict it creates.  It is sometimes possible to work around a crash like this by making sure the buffering settings on your TriplePlay match the settings on your line 6 driver.  First, open TriplePlay with your ASIO4ALL driver and check what the settings are for buffering speed.  Try setting them to 128.  Then, close TP and open the standalone driver interface for your Line 6.  Change the buffering settings there to 128.  Now close that and try reopening TP and changing the drivers to the Line 6 and see if it doesn't crash."

The thing is that i try the things they told me but didn't work.....

With Asio4all Works better and with the Daw, but not standalone....

I'm thinking on buying a new computer and the eternal dilema comes out "mac or pc". For the half of an i5 two cores macbook i have an i7 quad pc....Is the better lantency from the mac better for work with the tripleplay or with a good configured pc can i make the job?

Thanks for all


Elantric

#7
QuoteI'm thinking on buying a new computer and the eternal dilema comes out "mac or pc". For the half of an i5 two cores macbook i have an i7 quad pc....Is the better lantency from the mac better for work with the tripleplay or with a good configured pc can i make the job?

Thanks for all

My 2 cents -

ASIO4ALL -is junk, uses WDM drivers and will truncate all Audio to 16 bits.

http://tippach.business.t-online.de/asio4all/intro.html

What started as a bedroom project in early 2003 - for the sole purpose to get ASIO support for the AC97 on my laptop - has become ASIO4ALL - the universal ASIO driver for WDM audio.


Windows PCs for most DAW Tasks run best with Real genuine ASIO Drivers , (Not ASIO4ALL) as that is the Low Latency Windows Driver type supplied with most pro audio interfaces  - however know that most ASIO Drivers can only be used by One Audio Application at a time. There are MultiClient ASIO Drivers but these are rare.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5303432

The NI Audio Interfaces come with a MultiClient ASIO Driver - the old NI Rig Kontrol 3 works well on Windows with FTP.
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/free-multi-client-asio-driver.109826/



Since migrating to a Mac OSX for 100% of my Audio tasks - I benefit from low latency Core audio Drivers, ability to run multiple apps and editors at the same time, Lower latency, and  ability to easily Zoom into my workspace Display to see what I'm doing.   These features are crucial to my workflow and not possible on a Windows machine.   

And FWIW - My FTP Control Panel and HD500X as my Audio interface run just fine together on my Mac.

If you must use Windows - Read everything here:
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/AudioTools/TroubleShooting.htm


And here is a thread describing my Computers
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6104.0

fusionman

Thanks for the help Elantric!

Do you think it's important the i5 factor on a laptop (2 cores-4 threads) vs i7 (4 cores-8 theads) in order to use with vst's and the tripleplay? (because the basic macbook pro only has i5)

Do you think it's more important the "Mac Os" factor versus the "i5/i7 factor"  :)

Thanks!!

Elantric

#9
The Apple OSX is the most important aspect IMHO  - it has low latency media control processing integrated into the OS.
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/CoreAudioOverview/Introduction/Introduction.html



FWIW the developer of Fishman Tripleplay (Andras Szalay) uses a 2013 Macbook Air (I5) with 128GB SSD - like this one
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FD711LL/A/refurbished-116-inch-macbook-air-13ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i5


Myself I purchased a slightly used 2012 Macbook Pro Retina with Quad Core i7, ($1400) then upgraded to a 768GB SSD - similar to this
http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0PW0LL/A/refurbished-133-inch-macBook-Pro-30-ghz-Dual-core-Intel-Core-i7-with-retina-Display

shawnb

I don't have any Line6 products, so I cannot reproduce this. 

If ASIO doesn't work, though, my first suggestion would be to try the other 'Audio device types' in preferences for the FTP standalone app.  It is likely there is a native Windows driver you can use.  I've never had issues using WDM in the past (though I haven't tried it for my FTP). 

A quick Google shows that other folks have had problems with the driver for the 'black bean'.  Most think it has something to do with the USB driver/port.  It can't hurt to try different USB ports, if you have 'em. 

Resident Windows die-hard,

Shawn
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

fusionman

#11
Thanks Elantric and shawnb for you help!!!!  8)

i will try to connect the "black bean" to a different usb port and i'll start saving for the Mac.... Thanks!!!