need some basic help going MIDI

Started by luthierwnc, August 07, 2014, 07:20:40 PM

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luthierwnc

Hi All,

I am building an ergonomic guitar with a GK-KIT as well as two passive humbuckers. 

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11899.0

I am relative new to this discipline and was hoping some VG members might point me towards some older posts that have eluded my searches.  First, I'll give you an idea what I'd like to do and then explain what gear I have laying around and my preliminary thoughts on how I might use it.  Thanks in advance for your forbearance.

My initial thoughts were split two ways.  For one, I'd like to be able to do some light recording using the guitar to simulate other instruments.  The ability to transpose what comes out of the guitar onto scale notes (or tab) is a requirement.  With a hint of buyers remorse, the TriplePlay vids on YouTube are fairly close but I'm sure Roland units will do a lot of the same things.  For this application, foot pedals aren't absolutely mandatory.  I'll be mostly sitting down and have a desk where a GI-20 or VG-99 could fit comfortably. 

The other use for this instrument and rig would be live.  Nothing orchestral but the ability to lay down a bass track as a loop and play over it would be really handy.  I only mention that because of the sound reinforcement leading into available gear.

Besides guitars, I've made a lot of guitar amps.  All tube, ranging from 5 to 100 watts -- many of which are crammed into a closet waiting to annoy wife and neighbors.  Over the last 6 or 7 years, most of them have been Dumble-based.  These are complex contraptions and can clean-up amazingly when asked.  One or more of those will be how I make loud.  I do have a Carvin acoustic guitar amp that is a solid-state device with a 12" woofer and a tweeter.  That is also a nice poor-man's PA as one of the three channels has an XLR input.  It has a matching floor wedge -- 12 and horn.

I've also got a pretty good computer (Win 7) that could act as a DAW, two MIDI pedal boards to drive rack FX for the Dumbles and a metric buttload of cables, cords, power conditioners and stompboxes.  I put a better power supply in my computer but pitched the old one.  Too bad because the BillBax headphone amp (or something like it) will be an upcoming project.  I have a really old pair of AKG K240 headphones that are still hanging in there.  There is a sound card for the computer that drives an old but still pretty good stereo system but I don't have reference-quality monitors -- certainly nothing that could hold up to a guitar transient like a 2X12 guitar cab.  The sound card is inadequate and I need to look into options as this project unfolds.

In looking at options, I can't get a read on the future of the VG-99.  It is discontinued ... but it isn't.  That was the most promising gizmo.  The Boss GP-10 seems to be purely for guitar noises.  Not sure I need a Death Metal Swirling Chorus.  The GI-20 looks promising but it is also an antique.  Used and unimproved doesn't bother me, BTW.  Then we get to the GR-55.  I'm a newbie but that looks more like the GP-10 than the VG-99.  It doesn't have to be Roland either but I expect the GK input technology works best with proprietary devices.  That seems to be the consensus here so far.  Software for Windows operating systems is part of the discussion.  Money isn't tight.

That's quite a mouthful.  Any help is appreciated, sh

Elantric

#1
Fishman TriplePlay remains the fastest Guitar to MIDI system in 2014
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.0

I find it works well with Sampletank on Ipad or Macbook pro - but I had less than stellar results with Windows

( For Guitar to MIDI application, my 2014 Boss GP-10 feeding my 2012 Macbook Pro running the Soft Synths in Ableton Live 9 has lower latency than I was able to achieve with the Tripleplay running on Windows 7 ( Lenovo W510 intel i7 quad core, with 32GB RAM, and 512GB SSD drive) using the Fishman supplied software.     

The GR-55    is a jack of all trades  / master of none - for most of its features and functions , in 2014 there exists better hardware elsewhere.

The major issues I have with GR-55 is the long gap of silence during every patch change, which forces lots of pre - gig planning to work around, and the "land mines" of accidentally stepping on two pedals mid gig and triggering the phrase sampler by mistake in my case would spell  professional suicide if there are any sober witnesses.     

Then there is the new 2014 Boss GP-10
Boss GP-10 TOP THINGS TO KNOW
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11796.msg85343#msg85343

  - it is the latest Roland tech and fastest DSP and Roland's fastest Guitar to MIDI system today.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11796.msg85546#msg85546

QuoteVernon Reid's Review >
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11506.msg86127#msg86127
THANK YOU so much Elantric!!!Far from being the Stop Gap product I feared it would be, The GP-10 IS A BREAKTHROUGH. I've been on this Midi/Synth Guitar quest for YEARS-I'm STUNNED at how much better this thing sounds than I thought it would!!! It's INCREDIBLE-tonally it LEAPS ahead of the GR55, at least preset-wise! It's cleaner sounding artifact-wise, than my VG99 - The noise-gating is VASTLY improved.This GP-10 NEEDS an FC-300 size Big Sister w hardware midi I/O, like TOMORROW. Like some others here, I'm tempted to get a 2nd one...!
Still wrapping my head around what I'm actually hearing...

I just did a pitch to midi test via Ableton Live and THIS IS THE BEST OUT OF THE BOX EXTERNAL TRACKING ROLAND HAS EVER ACHIEVED. NO TWEAKING.

This is with Parker w Ghost saddles
Need to run other tests, but WOW!

Read more Boss GP-10 User Reviews
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11506.0



Soon we will have 5pin DIN MIDI I/O on the Boss GP-10 ( add $45 for Raspberry PI and generic MIDI I/O cable)  - so GP-10 will be able to drive external MIDI hardware synths without a PC / Mac, or be remote controlled by a typical MIDI foot pedal controller 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0



or buy a used 2007-2012 Roland VG-99  - these go for $650 on ebay
VG-99 FAQ: TOP THINGS TO KNOW
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13.0

luthierwnc

The GP-10 would be the logical choice except it only seems to do plucked-string instruments.  I'd like piano, percussion and woodwinds too.  Back to the GR-55 which seems a lesser successor -- although James the demonstrator in the UK managed some of the above fairly well.  YouTube has piano emulations in the GR-20 30 and 33 but are probably much slower than the current choices.  If the GR-55 is the new and improved version of that, I could do worse.  Or back to the VG-99 on the verge of being the next redheaded stepchild. 

I'll ask some local musicians what they have I can test.  In a blues, bluegrass and clogger town that might be a tall order but it might also turn up neglected gear needing a new home.  sh

Elantric

#3
QuoteI'd like piano, percussion and woodwinds too. 

Since the GP-10 lacks the GR-55's"GTR-PCM" tones, the GP-10 will not deliver Pianos, or any of the GR-55 PCM tones.

Use Boss GP-10's  2014 era Roland Guitar to MIDI feature and drive external MIDI sound module or Laptop loaded with Sampletank or NI Komplete..

There are a few strategies to get your feet wet. and NO product is perfect for everyone.

Buy used  - and spend time understanding the hardware. If you are guitar player - you owe it to yourself to try ROLAND HEX COSM MODELING  (VG-8, VG-88, VG99, GR-55, GP-10) - many used examples on Ebay start at $180


or

Buy new  - but from a dealer with a 45 day return policy.