FTP - Is anyone getting chromatic bends and glissando?

[neshel]

The Roland GR-1 would chromatically rise and lower the pitch when bending the string. As well, it would glissando when sliding up and down the string. It was very smooth. Any VST I've tried with the TP does not do this. Is this strictly a VST phenomenon?

[Spider]

FTP works with 4 modes: auto, smooth, triggered, stepped.
FTP works with default 12 semitones PB range.

Which mode you use? Did you set up same as in FTP PB range in your VST?

[neshel]

A while back I explored this through the TP interface. Pitchbend registers in the lower part of the screen. The mode doesn't seem to matter. (As well, it seems to be exclusive to the VST used in the TP interface.) For Piano One, it won't register - whereas it does if I'm using PO in Reaper (though it's stepped: I messaged the developer, and they said they hadn't thought of incorporating chromatic bend, which is understandable given their aim for piano accuracy). For Hypersonic 2, only now have I found a patch that tracks it and is properly assigned to the PB wheel. But the same patch doesn't behave similar when run through my DAW. Hmmm.....

Something else peculiar in the TP interface is that (particularly with Piano One) it doesn't or will rarely register the second pitch of a unison - like when I play A on the E string, and an open A, the latter will not or sometimes not sound, dependent on the VST/program I'm using.

The above are independent of device type, though ASIO4ALL seems the best of them. I use that in my DAW.

I'd rather not use the TP interface. Out of the box in my DAW, VSTs operate correctly and pitch tracking is correct or better, especially legato, hammer-ons, etc. So in that environment, I guess it's up to the VST.....I just can't figure out where that's being done in them.....

[Elantric]

read
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13653.0;attach=11197

FTP Modes & Midi Implementation
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13653.0

[neshel]

Thanks.....although most of that stuff I have no interest in. I just want it to do chromatic bends and glissandi. I'm never going to use a hardware synth, and I'm never going to use expression pedals, etc.

Also, I don't understand the difference between 'modes'. I think of it in terms of either using the TP interface or not. The Basic mode is......what? By the way, only when using the TP interface does the MIX toggle on the TP work - ie: switching to MIX or GUITAR only silences synth volume when using the TP interface.....

[shawnb]

In general, the FTP works like any other MIDI controller, and can easily accomplish any variant you want.   

With ANY controller, to get the desired behavior, three things must be in sync:
1) Your controller (the FTP) must be transmitting the desired behavior, stepped or smooth
2) Your instrument (the VSTi) must be setup to PLAY the desired behavior, stepped or smooth
3) Your pitch bend range, or PBR, must be set in BOTH locations, controller & instrument, to a matching value so they're speaking the same language

The FTP's settings are:
Smooth - Smooth transition between notes, like bending a string on a guitar
Triggered - Will NOT play between notes, will only land on the 12 chromatic tones (like a piano) as you bend up to the next note
Auto - Smooth transition between notes, but will 'lock' onto a note until enough variance in play exists that it 'knows' you're bending - Kind of a hybrid between Stepped & Smooth - PERFECT for most usage.   
Stepped - Like Triggered, but close enough counts, it kinda "rounds" the numeric value to the closest of the 12 tones

Different VSTis will use different terminology to accomplish the same things. 

A little more explanation on PBR may be found here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12511.msg91099#msg91099

The FTP factory presets exhibit both sets of behavior (smooth or stepped), depending on the preset.  E.g., pianos tend to be 'Trigger' and other 'synthy' tones tend to be Auto.   

If you're having a problem with a specific FTP factory preset, let us know which one & we can tell you what to look for. 

[neshel]

I haven't unpacked any of the included software, so I'm not using any FTP presets. And like I said, I don't want to use the FTP interface. So that means the TP is in AUTO mode when direct to DAW, right? Meaning the VST(s) in use in the DAW need to be set up accordingly, right? If so, then pitch bend isn't automatically tied to the pitch bend wheel, as the TP interface seems to do...

[shawnb]

And like I said, I don't want to use the FTP interface. So that means the TP is in AUTO mode when direct to DAW, right?

Nope.  Sounds like you're trying to operate in Basic Mode, and that explains your problem.  Check out the manual on page 14.  Since most folks are using it to simply emulate keyboards, it defaults to Trigger & POLY modes. 

In Basic Mode, however, the ENTER & BACK d-pad keys toggle between Trigger/Poly and Auto/Poly.  Sounds like you want to press ENTER to cut over to Auto/Poly mode.

You may want to use the FTP App, at least to set the sensitivity for each string to suit your setup.   

[neshel]

Okay, thanks, I wasn't understanding how it was written in the pdf. Yeah, that should be simple. I'll let you know how I get on. Also, since getting the TP, I've gone through a few configuration/string sensitivity set-ups, and recently got it set just right.

[neshel]

Okay, that solved the pitch bend issue. Not the glissando, though. The pb wheel goes up and down real quick when I slide.

[Spider]

1. First of all use FTP app for settings a) string sens. b) PB range d) modes for hardware synth. It is mandatory. First saved user patch will determine TP MIDI mode as mono (six separate channels for every string) or poly (1 MIDI channel for 6 strings)
2. Set proper PB in hardware synth or VSTi

Mod Wheel probably is set to +/- 2 semitones, FTP works with default setting with +/- 12 semis but... in basic mode it works only as chromatic (no PB) or +/- 2 semitones which is to small for 12 guitar frets slide. The best for guitar is even set to 24 semis!

[neshel]

I have the bend set fine. Four semitones seems perfect. Glissando I can't figure out at all. Something is forcing chromatic pitch recognition when the pitch changes (fret up or down from start). In Sample Tank, the mod wheel has no effect on that particular trombone sample. In Hypersonic, it's tied to the hyperknobs (I hate that feature); also, a semitone up slide sounds as a whole tone up, and the pb wheel goes up; sliding a whole tone up, and the wheel doesn't move. Settings I suppose, but I ain't gettin it by lookin at it..........


And, umm, isn't this the other way?

1. ...TP MIDI mode as mono (six separate channels for every string) or poly (1 MIDI channel for 6 strings)

[shawnb]

Okay, that solved the pitch bend issue. Not the glissando, though. The pb wheel goes up and down real quick when I slide.

PB moving faster or slower than expected is a symptom of having the PBRs out of sync.    PBR must be set at the synth & at the FTP.

If you are in mono mode, with one instrument/channel per string, that would require 6 PBR settings on the synth side.   

[neshel]

PB moving faster or slower than expected is a symptom of having the PBRs out of sync.    PBR must be set at the synth & at the FTP.

If you are in mono mode, with one instrument/channel per string, that would require 6 PBR settings on the synth side.   

Hmmm. I thought of this...but synths as far as I have seen don't distinguish the TP inputs, just pitch range, which of course overlaps from string to string.

But I'm not having a problem with pitchbend; that works killer. (It's set and works best at 'auto' on the TP.) It's the glissando. When I slide, the pb wheel for some reason is affected, and toggles up and down real quick.

[Spider]

PB, glissando doesn't metter you must set the same PB range in FTP and in synth. If you use 6 channel for 6 string you must do it 6 times. If you use FTP in basic mode PB range is OFF or is set to +2/-2 so it is completely wrong for slide from 1 to 12 fret...

[BobbyD]

Thanks for the post Neshel. I was having same problem and could not get chromatic bends. It seemed like when bending a note, the next semitone would trigger once I hit a certain threshold. I was only able to get three additional notes when bending strings and each note was triggered by some predetermined threshold. The only positive I can think of in that type of configuration is that you can't hit a bad note because the note triggered when bending was a perfect semitone once threshold was met.  It really bothered me so I can't wait to try the recommendations because these senior and global moderators really know their stuff.  Kinda blows my mind how much they know, and even more amazing, how freely they give their time and detailed responses to help other members like us trying to solve what seems like unsolvable problems.  It humbles me to see how much these guys truly care.  I happen to have a personal favorite who is Elantric even though all the senior people are amazing. I finally have come to the conclusion that Elantric has been cloned and there are two of him responding to posts, or he has some type of super human MIDI powers because he is everywhere on this site and replys quickly with so much detail. 

A big heartfelt thanks to anyone & everyone who takes their time trying to help other musicians.

Just remember to Play-it-forward one day.

BobbyD

[shawnb]

Hmmm. I thought of this...but synths as far as I have seen don't distinguish the TP inputs, just pitch range, which of course overlaps from string to string.
K
But I'm not having a problem with pitchbend; that works killer. (It's set and works best at 'auto' on the TP.) It's the glissando. When I slide, the pb wheel for some reason is affected, and toggles up and down real quick.

How many frets do you slide?   

As Spider points out, in Basic Mode, you are fixed at 2 semitones.    Those 2 semitones apply for all activity that use wheel events to go between notes.   That means slide, whammy, legato & bends all have a 2 fret(/semitone) limitation.

If you want to slide, bend a note, legato or whammy more than 2 frets(/semitones), you will need to learn about hardware mode.

Hope this helps,

[neshel]

@shawnb: Basic mode gives better performance; Hardware modes doesn't pick up hammer-ons, and restricts legato. I may slide up to fifteen frets; I don't whammy. There also appears to be a problem with the TP tracking pb: the wheel should never go negative, but doing a kind of wild bend in the upper registers, a la guitar solo 'waooo'-style, the TP steps the detection at times, and sometimes the wheel on the display goes negative.

I may forego the whole bit and just play Piano One....unless I get a dedicated interface and find better performance with Midi Guitar or MiGic.


@BobbyD: they're enthusiasts. I daresay, I do things because I want to, with no praise or gratitude or even recognition needed. And I encourage others to the same.

[shawnb]

@shawnb: Basic mode gives better performance; Hardware modes doesn't pick up hammer-ons, and restricts legato.

For the record, none of the above three statements are true.   

You can have great flexibility in HW mode, almost as much flexibility as using the app.    Think of Basic Mode as being HW mode with some fixed, unchangeable settings.   

I may slide up to fifteen frets; I don't whammy.

Slide & whammy both use wheel events to relay performance data.    If you want to slide 15 frets, you will need a PBR setting of 24 on your FTP & synth.   This will preclude you from using Basic mode.    I never use Basic Mode for this very reason.   

There also appears to be a problem with the TP tracking pb: the wheel should never go negative, but doing a kind of wild bend in the upper registers, a la guitar solo 'waooo'-style, the TP steps the detection at times, and sometimes the wheel on the display goes negative.

I believe these are further symptoms of having  PBR setting too low for your performance.   Waooo > 2 frets. 

The FTP can do all of this quite well, just not in Basic Mode, which roughly equals "I want to play keyboard" mode.   You need HW mode or to use the FTP app for slide & deep bends.

[Spider]

My advise is: try use a TriplePlay app, explore possibilities of FTP and then switch to HW mode. All your problems are wrong settings problem. I used MIDI Guitar 2 and MiGic too. Any one isn't as good as FTP.

[neshel]

My advise is: try use a TriplePlay app, explore possibilities of FTP and then switch to HW mode. All your problems are wrong settings problem. I used MIDI Guitar 2 and MiGic too. Any one isn't as good as FTP.

I've done that. I need to go back through the manual. We'll see.....


Othrogonally: has anyone unpacked Komplete Elements? I can't get it unpacked, and I'm loath to burn it to a disk - not that I have any for ****'s sake.

[shawnb]

Read, experiment, ping the forum, repeat...

It's an endless cycle!     

[neshel]

Nah, I ain't in it for that. I want it done, so it's done.

[Spider]

For me it was: try, set-up, us it. No repeat here:)

[neshel]

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