sustainer pickups

Started by cell7, July 23, 2012, 11:22:38 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Elantric

#50
Cool -but I end up being a function over appearance type myself
Quotei have read in a few places that the fernandes system means the entire guitar craps out when the battery dies,

Ive used every type and version of Guitar Sustainers and never experienced that - when the battery goes dead only the sustainer elements are not available.

The Exception would be the Neck Driver on some systems also do double duty as a Neck Pickup when the sustainer is off (Sustainiac Stealth Plus and many Fernandes RetroRocket Strats) and those Neck pickups no longer work when the battery fails.   

cell7

Quote from: Elantric on November 07, 2012, 05:43:25 AM
Ive used every type and version of never experienced that - when the battery goes dead only the sustainer elements are not available.

yeah that makes sense! I always thought it sounded like a ridiculous limitation when I was researching all the sustainers models.
Anyway, this one is working surprisingly well for me, and for much less than 100 I am a happy camper.

The one question is about the high E string. I know this is a question of general physics and it applies to all sustainer types - Is there any trick to getting an increase of the sustain effect here [other than by using a heavier gauge of string] ?

Elantric

#52
Try a set of Moog guitar Strings (the ultimate Sustainer) The thickest gauge you can stand.
http://www.sweetwater.com/c926--Moog--Electric_Guitar_Strings

QuoteMoog Guitar Strings are designed from the ground up to give you the most tone possible from your Moog Guitar. That's because Moog customized the metallurgy of the Moog Guitar Strings to provide the optimal tonal and dynamic response to the Moog Guitar's unique set of pickups. So, if you want the ultimate in performance out of the groundbreaking, forever-sustaining Moog Guitar — be sure to use only authentic Moog Guitar Strings! Strings are available in packs of three — there are Light Gauge, Medium Gauge, and Heavy Gauge Moog Guitar Strings.

Alternatively - try a set of Ernie Ball Cobalt strings

tekrytor

Thanks Cell, 7 for posting the photos! I was wondering where exactly the sus PU was mounted, which is hard to see exactly in the photos. But I'm guessing inside the ring for the neck PU. Is that correct?
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

cell7

Quote from: tekrytor on November 07, 2012, 10:14:43 PM
Thanks Cell, 7 for posting the photos! I was wondering where exactly the sus PU was mounted, which is hard to see exactly in the photos. But I'm guessing inside the ring for the neck PU. Is that correct?

Actually, the entire neck pickup is the unit that i got from Ted - it is essentially a single coil regular neck pickup plus a single coil sustainer driver. it doesnt sit nicely in the pickup ring unfortunately. Surprisingly, the single coil is actually ok [as a bonus]. I would be keen to see if the slimline drivers that he is offering will work as well as this one - in which case i could have kept my neck bucker there, but i am pretty happy with this one as it stands anyway.

@elantric - thanks for the info on the strings. I think i will give the cobalt strings a shot first.

tekrytor

So, is the blade the sustainer portion odd the PU?
I looked at the super small one he offers, which looks like an under saddle piezo, and die some reason thought you might have used that one. They're very thin. I really appreciate your reporting on this, being a DIY guy myself. :D
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

cell7

Quote from: tekrytor on November 08, 2012, 01:10:11 AM
So, is the blade the sustainer portion odd the PU?
I looked at the super small one he offers, which looks like an under saddle piezo, and die some reason thought you might have used that one. They're very thin. I really appreciate your reporting on this, being a DIY guy myself. :D

Yep the blade part is the sustainer. The sustainer driver always needs to be as close to the neck as possible, so an under-saddle option wont work unfortunately [not sure if that is what you meant?]. I got the double-dual mode http://sustainer.run-bg.com/bg/index.pl?_state=Product&id=3263 .... although if i had waited then i probably would have sprung for one of he slimline options, but he didnt have them ready when i bought this one.

tekrytor

Thanks Cell7, for some reason I was thinking you were using the slimline. Either way, it's great to know how it works for you. I squeak when I walk these days, so I like the prices on these units. :)
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

drjoness2001

Quote from: cell7 on November 07, 2012, 06:46:10 AM
yeah that makes sense! I always thought it sounded like a ridiculous limitation when I was researching all the sustainers models.
Anyway, this one is working surprisingly well for me, and for much less than 100 I am a happy camper.

The one question is about the high E string. I know this is a question of general physics and it applies to all sustainer types - Is there any trick to getting an increase of the sustain effect here [other than by using a heavier gauge of string] ?

It takes quite a bit of power to drive the strings, when I took apart my Fernandes Sustainer, I was surprised by how large the circuit card is, and how the design of the circuit (note the large choke/transformer) is built around the need to generate adequate energy for the strings to vibrate. Ebow users know that it's trickier to drive the higher strings than the heavier, wound strings. Unless you can find a way to boost the output of the sustainer, I think a heavier string is the only solution.

Hopkins

I was wondering why the sustainer cannot be driven from the neck pickup - thus isolating the bridge pickup completely from the sustainer electronics.  I have thought of two possible reasons:

1) The sustainer needs the more harmonically rich signal from the bridge to do the harmonic overtone thing (so if you didn't want that mode then could you drive it from the neck pickup?)

2) The magnetic field from the sustainer will interfere with the neck pickup directly, causing unwanted direct feedback.

Can anyone confirm/refute either of those suggestions?

Cheers!

Elantric

Its basically due to #2

Quote2) The magnetic field from the sustainer will interfere with the neck pickup directly, causing unwanted direct feedback.


Hopkins


cell7

Quote from: Elantric on November 19, 2012, 03:37:11 PM
Its basically due to #2



and it sounds NASTY. I generally love nasty noise... but this is ear-splitting.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: cell7 on November 07, 2012, 06:46:10 AM
yeah that makes sense! I always thought it sounded like a ridiculous limitation when I was researching all the sustainers models.
Anyway, this one is working surprisingly well for me, and for much less than 100 I am a happy camper.

The one question is about the high E string. I know this is a question of general physics and it applies to all sustainer types - Is there any trick to getting an increase of the sustain effect here [other than by using a heavier gauge of string] ?

I have fernandes sustainers on 5 or 6 guitars and they all die when the battery goes , to fix the e string you tilt the pickup so the high e is the closest and the low e the furthest away from the pickup , increase the effect until it squeals , and back back off a notch
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

cell7

Quote from: Brak(E)man on December 14, 2012, 05:47:24 AM
I have fernandes sustainers on 5 or 6 guitars and they all die when the battery goes , to fix the e string you tilt the pickup so the high e is the closest and the low e the furthest away from the pickup , increase the effect until it squeals , and back back off a notch

The whole guitar dies or just the sustainer?

That e-string tip sounds like a good idea, I will give it a shot.

Brak(E)man

Quote from: cell7 on December 15, 2012, 09:42:25 AM
The whole guitar dies or just the sustainer?

That e-string tip sounds like a good idea, I will give it a shot.

the whole guitar , but it never happened to me during a gig ,
and since i use the hex mic for the sound 90 % and the sustainer only for the sustain
I can rely on the hex and vg for sound so it doesn't matter,
and i have a fast change battery compartment , takes about 15 sec to change a battery
, less than a string that breaks , but since i have 25 strings on my ax , that's not an issue neither :)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

vanceg

Quote from: vanceg on September 17, 2012, 11:14:35 PM
Yeah - I think I'm going to do a test on this sustainer, and then try out one of his smaller units.


Well I have FINALLY tested this single coil pickup sized sustainer and I must say that it performs just about as well as my Sustainiac. I like the sound quite a lot.  It's got two modes, a Standard and a Harmonics mode.  Both of these work well.  On my Sustainiac equipped guitars, the standard mode works a lot better than the harmonic mode.  This "homemade" sustainer is a lot cheaper than a Sustainiac, and I like its sound just about as much.  I think the high E string is not quite as responsive on the homemade one as it is on the Sustainiac.  The electronics build on the Homemade one leaves a lot to be desired.  The 'circuit board' is a standard breadboard with hand soldered pieces on it.  That's all find and dandy, but then the entire package is wrapped in what appears to be packing tape.  Not very "pro" but then again - if you are putting one of these into your instrument - you might be interested in messing with the electronics some yourself.   
I have NOT had a chance to order or try one of the micro sized drivers. I have been using the single coil pickup size driver.  Very pleased.

Rick

Well...  ;D Photos and a video, that I'll be editing probably later today, will be up soon if anybody's interested. Has anybody else had any recent to do with that Bulgarian sustainiac guru?
Suffice it to say that the bother of using an ebow on a fretless guitar was nothing compared to the physical and mental torture of installing this sustainer pup, along with an internal GK. I'm usually OK working with hands, but clearly, I am not a luthier. It was just that when I first lifted the pickguard to install a pair of Fast Track 2s I noticed a slight crack just below the neck, maybe from the parcel service, but more likely from the way I like to push the neck instead of using the trem arm. My SG had the same crack. Not intending to take a €50 guitar for a €200 repair job, and since I am tuning a minor 3rd and sometimes a major 3rd down due to the defretted nature of the neck  :o , I figured I'd give the ol' power tools a chance to do some damage. New tip for the Weller and away...
I hope to get the video up in a day or two. It does confirm that it is possible to run a sustainer type pup along an internal Gk (board kept well south of the sustainiac bits and bobs), even if it isn't an 'overpriced' jem or fly. Though if I were to sell it, I'd probably be asking five grand for it too...  ::)
I had tried to install a Starr Switch too, but there just wasn't the room, or the patience, to get it all to fit inside! Besides, I had to finish it up quick as it should debut next Saturday at the Knulp in Trieste, if it doesn't fall apart before that...


Quote from: vanceg on January 09, 2013, 06:31:37 PM

Well I have FINALLY tested this single coil pickup sized sustainer and I must say that it performs just about as well as my Sustainiac. ...- if you are putting one of these into your instrument - you might be interested in messing with the electronics some yourself.   
Very pleased.
axes:
Gibson SG-shaped LP Standard '63
Gibson SG Specially Kahlered Y2K
Lapaxe cocobolo '11
Ibanez RG450AH '99 'rootbeered'
Fender Strat Hitmaker copy
Yamaha 112, GK, fretless & sustainiaked

fx:
VG99, VG8ex, SY300, Philo-Tone Gold, Adrenalinn III, TC VL3, RC202

amps:
GK 206mls + two SR Club

Rick

#68
OK, not sure if it's alright to copy utube links here but anyways, here's a quick trailer I did while trying to figure out how to use iMovie. I used to have fewer troubles and less headaches writing html pages from scratch... a full movie is on its way, about 10 minutes or so showing the stages over about 3 days, and I did a little soundtrack using mostly the VG99 driving a Mopho. Very 'ambience', intended to convey the pain that a non-luthier suffers trying to act like one!



I'll post the bigger the one, the full film, on the same site as soon as I can. Got a concert on Saturday and I lost a DL4 and 3 power adapters to the heat already over the last couple of days. I hope they have air conditioning...


Quote from: Rick on June 07, 2015, 04:56:53 AM
Well...  ;D Photos and a video, ...Besides, I had to finish it up quick as it should debut next Saturday at the Knulp in Trieste, if it doesn't fall apart before that...
axes:
Gibson SG-shaped LP Standard '63
Gibson SG Specially Kahlered Y2K
Lapaxe cocobolo '11
Ibanez RG450AH '99 'rootbeered'
Fender Strat Hitmaker copy
Yamaha 112, GK, fretless & sustainiaked

fx:
VG99, VG8ex, SY300, Philo-Tone Gold, Adrenalinn III, TC VL3, RC202

amps:
GK 206mls + two SR Club

Elantric

http://www.wiredguitarist.com/2016/05/03/guitar-sustainer-guide/






Guitar Sustainer Guide
WiredGuitarist  May 3, 2016
Before we get into things, let's quickly show you what a sustainer does (scroll down for the article):



What is a Sustainer?

Sustainers are a pickup system that do exactly what they sound like they do – give you virtually unlimited sustain.  If you're looking for crazy Steve Vai levels of sustain, then you definitely want a sustainer.  Now, there are other ways of getting more sustain, but they work differently from sustainer pickups.



How do Sustainer pickup systems work?

Popular sustainers essentially work using witchcraft.  Ok, well maybe not quite witchcraft, but this is close to it!  They work by creating a magnetic field that forces your strings to vibrate.  This vibration gets picked up by your bridge pickup and leads to unlimited sustain. This is method I just described is the electromagnetic method.

There's another method too, which is electroacoustic, like the Sustainiac Model C.  This sustainer is pretty bulky and mounts onto the headstock of your guitar.  The concept basically works the same way as the electromagnetic method.  The reason people go with the electroacoustic system is because you don't have to carve your guitar up and go through a truly painful (and costly!) installation process. 



What Other Methods Can I use to Get Unlimited Sustain?

There aren't really any other practical methods you can use to increase the sustain your guitar has. 

You can try using a compressor or distortion pedal, but it won't really work that well. 

The tried and true old school method is to play loud...really loud.  When you're playing that loud and face your guitar towards your amp, you end up with loads of feedback.  This feedback gives you a ton of sustain, and notes tend to turn into harmonics that can sound awesome.  The limitation here of course, is that you have to be playing really loud which isn't practical for most guitarists.

The last option is using something like an eBow.  They are cheap, but you can't play guitar normally if you're using one.

Let's dive into the two most popular companies currently making sustainers...



Who Makes Sustainers and Which One Should I Buy?

There are basically two reigning systems for getting unlimited sustain.  One is the Sustainiac, and the other is the Fernandes Sustainer system.  Both are similar, but offer their own unique twist on delivering unlimited sustain.

The Sustainiac is the most popular of the two, and found on guitars like the Schecter Hellraiser C-1 FR-S and the Lamborghini green Keith Merrow model.  All Sustainiac products are made in the U.S. by Maniac Music Inc. 

They sell the Sustainiac Stealth system, which is what is found on the aforementioned Schecter models, and also have the Model C.  The Model C is an electroacoustic system that means you don't really have to carve your guitar up.  While the model C is a nice system, the Stealth is more practical.

If you want more information on the Sustainiac, you can read through their website straight out of the early 1990s. 

http://www.sustainiac.com/index.htm
It's kind of hard to navigate, but there is probably more information than you would ever reasonably want about the Sustainiac there.

The second system is the Fernandes system, which is electromagnetic and also allows for a few modes that the Sustainiac does not. 

The first is the natural mode, where the string keeps ringing until the sustainer is turned off or the strings are muted.  The second is the harmonic mode, where after activating the system, the notes you pick will go up until they hit the 5th natural harmonic.  The last mode is the mix mode; this mixes the aforementioned modes and gives you a cool harmonized feedback type of effect.

Fernandes sells a kit that lets you equip your guitar with their sustainer system, and also sells their own guitars that come preloaded with these systems.



Sustainiac VS. Fernandes Sustainer, Which One is Right for Me?

It really depends on your situation.  I prefer the Sustainiac system personally but a lot of killer guitarists love the Fernandes system.  There's nothing wrong with either!  The additional modes on the Fernandes system are cool, but I find the Sustainiac is stronger and works a little better.

If you want to try a sustainer out, the most cost effective solution is to buy a guitar loaded with one, like the Schecter C1 FR-S or Lambo KM7.  Fernandes has their own line of guitars, but they aren't very popular for a reason. 

If you intend on installing a system, keep in mind that it isn't a quick or cheap thing to do, and you might end up spending a lot more than you planned.  This is why I recommend grabbing a cheap guitar loaded with one first to see if you even want a sustainer.


thebrushwithin

#70
So glad you posted this because for a very long time the model C has not been available, but now it looks like it's back in business again - it's perfect on a Roland G707 guitar , because the stabilizer bar can hide the cable. Thank you !!!
Edit - maybe it's not available after all, some conflicting info on his pages, definitely worth a call to find out.

Elantric


vanceg

Well that's an interesting device.  Definitely aimed at people wanting to get a feedback effect rather than a sustain sound...but of course the two are pretty closely related.  Neat option!  I'll have to check one out!

Elantric

Quote from: vanceg on June 26, 2017, 11:01:38 AM
Well that's an interesting device.  Definitely aimed at people wanting to get a feedback effect rather than a sustain sound...but of course the two are pretty closely related.  Neat option!  I'll have to check one out!