Review: Line-6 Variax vs Roland VG99/GR55/Boss GP-10

Started by whippinpost91850, November 29, 2011, 09:23:52 AM

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whippinpost91850

Has anyone compared the variax imulations to the ones in the GR55 and/or VG99. I have GR and just ordered A VG99 and I'm curious. ???

germanicus

I prefer the Variax to either the gr55 or vg99 when it comes to the quality of modelled sounds.

Rolands guitar modelling used to have a significant edge in the alternate tuning performance department, but Line 6's new generation JTV's has closed that gap considerably.

In terms of detail of sound, I just prefer the Variax emulations as sounding much closer to what they are aiming for.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

whippinpost91850

thanks! I appreciate the input and welcome more....

Now_And_Then


At one point I had a Variax 500, a 700 Acoustic, and a 705 bass.

I loved some of the 700 Acoustic sounds but found that a held note would quickly begin to sound like a a tremolo effect was being applied, which for me made it unusable.

The 500 had some very nice sounds in it, including the acoustic guitar sounds, but I found that as one added overdrive and distortion, the models very quickly lost their character, and the 55 or however many models in the guitar all sounded identical. A large amount of overdrive or distortion was not required: the loss of character happened very very quickly.

This might be related to the observation by "Davor" (if I correctly recall his name) that the Variax sound has a very large piezo component, which he estimated at being 40% of the Variax sound. I would not even offer my own guess, but this could be a factor. This also relates to a commonly-expressed opinion on this board that the VG's sound better via GK/magnetic hex pickups, as compared to piezo pickups.

When the new Tyler Variaxes were first announced, I became interested specifically because their pre-release pubicity emphasized, among other things, their newly-designed piezo bridge/saddles, meant to eliminate certain artifacts from the sound. I do not know how successful this was. I listened to Germanicus's Tyler Variax videos ( https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3829.0 ) and thought that the acoustic guitar sound was actually a step backwards from the original Variax sound. Note that Germanicus finds the new and old Variax acoustic sounds to be "practically identical" whereas I was listening to the sound of a youtube video. On the other hand, according to what I read on the Line 6 forum, there were other people dissatisfied with the Tyler Variax acoustic sounds but said that the latest firmware made real improvements in that respect.

Well, sorry, this reply got out of hand a bit.

(Imagine, right here, if you will, an emoticon consisting of a colon and an open-parentheses, expressing sadness. Note that you do not actually see such an emoticon here for the reason that the message editor automatically degrades a text emoticon into a smiley-face, without even being asked, and I can't seem to find any way to disable this irritating behavior.)




wmzaphod

I have been using a Variax 700 live for nearly seven years (linked to a Pod XT Live) and I had convinced myself this was the ideal rig (for me).  I have no experience with the newer Variax though, from what I read above it seems to be somewhat better than my model.

However, the last week or so using the GR55 has changed my mind a bit...My first impressions with the GR suggest it may be the only device I use live from now on. I regularly use a number of Variax models but have never been totally happy with the acoustic sounds - I do like what I've been able to configure in the GR tho  ::)
Peter
a gear-a-holic

See some guitars at JediStar.com

whippinpost91850

Well that's 2 for Variax.. I play strickly in a live band at this point and thats how I use the GR55. The only accoustic sound I'm using from it is an accoustic 12 string. But am gadually wanting to use more in my "cover band" .It would be really nice to be able to add a Tele and reg Strat to my arsenal. I have a fairly versatile custo melectric I built 20 years ago. Being left handed, I would have to gut a Variax to make a left handed one. I guess I'll have to go try a righty upside down to get a feel.
Thanks for the feed back any more from anyone that uses them would be appreciated. My Eleven Rack came yesterday and the VG99 should be here tommorrow, so looking forward to the comparison on the amps and effects.  :P

cynegetic

Picked one up last weekend along with a pod hd. Still putting it through the paces trying to figure which I like better (vax vs 99). Only one will stay.

So far, while the vax is a decent guitar, the 99 has a cleaner sound. You can really hear the difference in the neck position on like the strat and tele models. You can hear the roundness/crispness of the tone on the 99 while the vax is 'moffy' (muddily soft? fluffy?). Hard to describe but still have to give it time to see which I prefer, try different thing/strings/99 into pod/vax into 99 etc.

Acoustics between them are sort of a wash I think as to which is 'better'. They're just different.

I'll report more as I get into it more.


paults

Especially for live gigs, I prefer the Roland gear.  With it, all you need is another GK pickup to have more than one guitar with you. You can move them from guitar to guitar, depending on the gig.

Elantric

#8
Regarding cables, I'm of the opposite opinion

I hate using Roland 13pin type Gear at gigs - the cables always fail and way too fragile for rock & roll.

And the GK-3 are way too fiddly, ugly, and with its oddball string spacing, it only fits 30% of the guitars out there.
And it prevents using a hardshell case.

By contrast, the Tyler Variax  / XT Live / HD-500 with VDI Cable is robust, and I have never had any failures or odd noises.

Of course Line6 does not do all the things the Roland gear does - but when i bring hi tech gear to a live gig, its tends to be from Line6 - while my VG-99, and GR-55 stay safe at home.

Edit : changed in 2015  - now play the Boss GP-10+Godin LGX-SA  for most gigs

I'll point out that most days - I'm playing a Roland Cube80XL, and Gretsch Brian Setzer 6120, DiPintoGalaxie IV, or Xavier JTV-100 "Jazzmaster".

wmzaphod

Quote from: Elantric on November 30, 2011, 01:58:00 PM
By contrast, the Tyler Variax  / XT Live / HD-500 with VDI Cable is robust, and I have never had any failures or odd noises.

I agree with this, never had a failure with the line6 gear....  8)
Peter
a gear-a-holic

See some guitars at JediStar.com

whippinpost91850

  Now this confuses me a bit... It sounds like some of the long time VG/roland enthusiests only use their Roland gear in the bedroom or studio. ??? I have to admit the 13pin is a weak link but have not had any real problems on stage.And never with the old 24 pin
  I'm more concerned about bringing different tones to our live show, without having multable amps and guitars. Just to damn old for all that gear.

Elantric

#11
QuoteIt sounds like some of the long time VG/roland enthusiests only use their Roland gear in the bedroom or studio.

That works fine for me!

You can Read my frustrations with Gibson Hi tech guitars and discover other "non Roland" Hi Tech Guitar info exclusively at our other forum here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=forum


My Frustrations with Line6 are here:(Im stevekc)
http://line6.com/support/thread/73637
If you have read my posts over the years, it should be obvious I'm typically at odds with many Guitar/Music Equipment Manufacturer's product implementation and marketing decisions. My sheer frustration with Roland is the principal reason this site exists, Just because I hate something - does not mean i do not use it,  - often daily for its positive benefits!

Dont get me started on Microsoft!!

I am guilty of being a perfectionist in a imperfect world.

I'm simply a guitar player trying to broaden my sonic palette - I'm just stating my opinion, everyone has at least one.;)

And I agree - the old Roland 24 pin gear was far more reliable on stage too!



germanicus

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on November 30, 2011, 03:25:30 PM
  Now this confuses me a bit... It sounds like some of the long time VG/roland enthusiests only use their Roland gear in the bedroom or studio. ??? I have to admit the 13pin is a weak link but have not had any real problems on stage.And never with the old 24 pin
  I'm more concerned about bringing different tones to our live show, without having multable amps and guitars. Just to damn old for all that gear.

Ive used the vg99 since around 2008, got a gr55 back around Feb/March through the group buy.
I gigged out with the vg99 quite a bit before getting the JTV/Pod hd500 combo. My vg99 now sits in my home studio. I didnt have any issues with the vg99 in terms of durability, and found the FC300 foot unit extremely durable. I also have never had issues with 13 pin cables going bad live on stage (although some have gone bad on me over the years at less critical times).

In the past I had some issues with the older variax's, mainly piezo's going bad in my cheapo variax 300 and one in my variax 600. My Variax 700 Acoustic never had any such issues. My JTV has been perfect and ive played it extremely heavily for the past 11 months (its really the only guitar I play at all except for the 700 Acoustic at this point). 
I use the gr55 live as a supplement to the JTV/Hd500 (synth sounds and some occasional extra modelled sounds).

Part of the allure of the JTV/HD500, for me, is its simplicity. One floor pedal, one guitar, one solid unobstrusive cable. Due to how the alternate tuning knob works on the JTV, i've found it MUCH easier to use live compared to a vg99 setup.  For one, with the vg99 you need the unit itself, plus an additional foot controller. Secondly, I use alot of whacky tunings live, in a given set I use about 4-5 different tunings. For alternate tunings, theres no dedicated 'tuning knob' on the vg99 setup. You can jump through some hoops and use assign controllers to change tunings within a given patch on the 99, but i found it much easier to have the tunings completely untethered from the patches altogether, and the JTV allows for this while the vg99 does not. So due to needing different tunings, I had to duplicate my 'goto' patches in the vg99 and store them across multiple banks, ie I would have my main patches (acoustic guitar, Clean fender tone, Crunchy rhythm tone, Lead tone, sitar sound etc.) in a bank for standard tuning, then a clone of all those patches in a different bank for DADGAD, then a clone of all those patches in CGCGCE, etc. etc. etc.

With the JTV/HD500 I can have the same 5 patches, and if I need a different tuning, i just move the knob on the guitar to whatever tuning I want, and im ready to go. Much less 'dancing' on footpedals between songs (which is good because I still need to dance on my loop pedal and gr55).

I also prefer the amp modelling in the Pod HD500 series compared to the Roland COSM amps. On numerous occasions I was going to see if I can just pair down my live rig to using just my JTV into the gr55, and made a buch of patches for such, but whenever I played again through the HD500, the difference was night and day in terms of tone/responsiveness. The difference for me is like Standard TV vs. Hi-Def. Cheesy comparison but thats been my experience.

As per the piezo plink, its diminished in the new JTV's, but honestly it never really bothered my much at all in the old variax so im not the best to pass judgment on this issue.

Any of the 3 setups are extremely powerful and versatile.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

whippinpost91850

 I wasn't questioning your opinion, by all means I certainly appreciate it. I'm just trying to figure out the best equipment moves for my use. Believe me I value all the info and oppinions from all you guys. That why I'm asking for the oppinions of  the one's that allredy have the experience. I just wished I had discovered this jem a few years ago. Thanks to everyone. Any one with live experience with the Eleven Rack would also be appreciated.

whippinpost91850

I guess I'll have to get a Pod 500 to try along with the VG99 and the Eleven Rack for the Amp and effects modeling. Oh jeeeez it's never ending. Being left handed makes it a little tuffer for the Variax. Thanks for your comments

germanicus

I didnt think you were, was just expounding on my experiences. I also thought to point out that I hadnt really had many reliability issues with my Roland gear, in fact the opposite. My pod hd500 has been stellar so far, but the previous generation unit I had, the Pod X3 live, was not, and had footswitch reliability problems. Based on my current experience I think that unit was a blip on their track record, as the unit I owned before that one, the Pod XT live, was insanely durable, built like a tank. I could practically ride it down a ski slope as a sled.

The only problems with Roland gear, besides a few cables going bad (2 out of owning about 8 or 9 total), was I had a backlight go out on a gr33 after many years of operation.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

germanicus

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on November 30, 2011, 04:34:48 PM
I guess I'll have to get a Pod 500 to try along with the VG99 and the Eleven Rack for the Amp and effects modeling. Oh jeeeez it's never ending. Being left handed makes it a little tuffer for the Variax. Thanks for your comments

The combo is extremely powerful, they 'handshake' with one another, and patches in the hd500 can control what model guitar the variax is playing back. Its also possible to use both the Magnetic pickups and the modelled pickups simultaneously with the HD500, and send each through its own modelled amp chain.

Elantric: Id be curious to hear some of your JTV/Pod hd500 patches if you have any made. I can share mine as well if anyone is interested.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

Elantric

#17
QuoteElantric: Id be curious to hear some of your JTV/Pod hd500 patches if you have any made. I can share mine as well if anyone is interested.
i would enjoy that!

FWIW - We do already have a Variax area at our sister site here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=420.0

But given our population here, Perhaps we should have a Variax / HD500 patch thread / area here - hmmm!
Its here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=138.0

My Tyler Variax has spent most of its life on a UPS truck back to Line6 for one  RMA after another.
http://line6.com/support/thread/74262?tstart=0

My latest replacement JTV-69 just arrived last Wednesday right before thanksgiving, - this one is getting a GK-3 installed asap.


Bill Ruppert


I own a POD HD 500 and the desk top POD HD.
they are great.
BUT.......
The VG-99 can duplicate any thing the PODs can do.
Its down to programming and the people twisting the knobs.
That is a fact.

Want to buy a HD-500 cheap??????
Mine is for sale.




Quote from: whippinpost91850 on November 30, 2011, 04:34:48 PM
I guess I'll have to get a Pod 500 to try along with the VG99 and the Eleven Rack for the Amp and effects modeling. Oh jeeeez it's never ending. Being left handed makes it a little tuffer for the Variax. Thanks for your comments

Elantric

#19
I use my HD500 for the VDI Variax connection (crucial for Guitar  / POD HD  patch syncronization and Variax Workbench app editor - VDI / L6 Link and stereo Effects loop  is missing from the HD bean.


I'm also reverse engineering the "L6 Link" (its AES/EBU) - so i can use it with other amps besides the DT50/25

Contact Bill if you want a perfect condition HD500.

germanicus

Quote from: Elantric on November 30, 2011, 05:18:28 PM
i would enjoy that!


The "JTV" setlist, contains my goto patches. Im not sure if Set List names are stored in the Bundle file or not, so if not, my "JTV" setlist is the one on the top right in HD edit. Some of these are patches I downloaded and modified, most are built from scratch.
Patch 1a and 2b are my main acoustic guitar patches.

Most of the patches are built as FS1 = distortion FS2= Boost/overdrive FS3=Modulation FS=4 Delay/Verb
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

Elantric

Thanks you!

hope to try these this week end!

paults

"Variax" starts with a "V", and is a guitar.  That qualifies as a VGuitar to me:)

I liked the Variax/XTLive set up I had, to the point of putting 500 electronics into a PRS SE, because I prefer 24.75" scale and having a tremolo.  And, I could easily use it with a wireless.   In the long run, though, I didn't want to always play that one guitar. So, when the VG-99 came along, I sold the Line 6 stuff. The GR-55 replaced the VG-99/XV5050 I had been using.  I always have two or three guitars with me - from as staid as a black Les Paul to as "What is that thing?" as a red Roland G-707 or a Traveler Speedster, depending on the gig.  I also have a GK on an Ovation, mostly for recording, and infrequent acoustic gigs. The dobro, 12 strings, jazz box tones are really nice using an acoustic as a source guitar.  I have an "extra" GK that moves from guitar to guitar, in case I buy something on Craigslist, and play it for a few weeks.  I bought used GK pickups - a dozen of those can be had for the price of a Tyler.

A lot of us have/had both set ups.  I think we all have been happy with both, for the most part. Both set ups have trade-offs, but both are musically useful.       

     

whippinpost91850

Wife called . They just delivered the VG99 ;D Now I have the VG99 and the Eleven Rack and I am gonna try and pickup a HD500 as well, and compare all this weekend. It  should be interesting to see which won sets my soul on fire. Any sugestions befor I get started. thanks

Elantric

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