Katana - MIDI over USB

Started by rd2rk, October 18, 2017, 10:30:18 PM

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rd2rk

What am I missing?

Powered up my K100-112 Combo holding CH1
Helix set to MIDI Ch1
Four Helix buttons set to send CC# 016-019
Five Helix buttons set to send PC# 000-004

Nothing.

Latest FW on the Katana

admin

#1
Quote from: rd2rk on October 18, 2017, 10:30:18 PM
What am I missing?

Powered up my K100-112 Combo holding CH1
Helix set to MIDI Ch1
Four Helix buttons set to send CC# 016-019
Five Helix buttons set to send PC# 000-004

Nothing.

Latest FW on the Katana
What am I missing?

Needs Much more than a USB cable.
Need a hardware wired MIDI I/O interface between Helix and the non class compliant Boss Katana USB interface on 100W Combo
PrimovaSound MIDX-20
http://www.primovasound.com/midx_20.html

or learn how to DIY your own if you know Linux
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19707.0


learn about USB ( inform you, your friends , or any contacts you have at new gear manufacturers why omitting 5 pin MIDI I/O jacks is a bad idea

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15763.0

Quote
Why cant i just use a USB cable to connect two pieces of gear with a USB jacks  ?

Because most music gear with USB jacks I know ( as well as the Boss Katana, GP-10, Helix, Fishman Tripleplay, Line6 FBV Shortboard MKII are:
USB Client (EndPoint) devices

The USB Bus requires One device to act as USB HOST Device - and those are typically computers 
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/49140/what-exactly-are-the-difference-between-a-usb-host-and-device

The USB Host port initiates all communication on the USB bus, the USB Endpoint device only responds when asked by the USB Host. For Details see the specs on usb.org.
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/

(And tell anyone you know (Marketing Manager's, etc) to study the USB Specification before they vote to omit the 5pin DIN MIDI I/O jacks from new gear just to save $2.00 cost.

gumtown

You could think of your midi USB setup like connecting a USB computer keyboard directly to a USB printer,
and wondering why the printer doesn't print out what you are typing.
Need the magic computer intelligent device in between.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

fificap

Hi,

I was wondering that the new firmware with assignable CC# does change the rules?

Thanks
Philippe

vtgearhead

How did you even make that connection physically?  Both the Katana and Helix are USB clients.

rd2rk

"How did you even make that connection physically?  Both the Katana and Helix are USB clients."

Adapters! Hiya SN, I'm EJ over at the FCB1010 yahoo group!

Thanks everybody, I get it now!

rd2rk

If I get the head and use a normal 5 pin midi cable from the Helix (or FCB1010) that will work?

rolandvg99

Quote from: rd2rk on October 19, 2017, 01:04:04 PM
If I get the head and use a normal 5 pin midi cable from the Helix (or FCB1010) that will work?


That should give you GA-FC functionality. I do this with my FC-300.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

rd2rk

Then, PC#s for channels 1-8 would be 000-007?

rolandvg99

Quote from: rd2rk on October 19, 2017, 03:31:26 PM
Then, PC#s for channels 1-8 would be 000-007?


You can set those to your liking in Boss Tone Studio under "System" and "MIDI"
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

admin

Quote from: rolandvg99 on October 19, 2017, 09:28:51 PM

You can set those to your liking in Boss Tone Studio under "System" and "MIDI"

rd2rk

Thanks everybody! I used MIDIOX to map the IN/OUT ports, and it works GREAT!

I'm using an FCB1010/UNO. I have the expression pedals set to CC#s 80 and 81(or 82). Setting one to a lower level sets a MAX volume for the other, if that's what you want. Otherwise, the one that's set to 81 or 82 will control wah, but that's all (that I've found so far).

The effects (CC# 16-19) toggle with 127/0 on the Stomp pedals. Since there's only four, I've got Stomp Pedal 5 set to call Panel on PC# 009, with the Preset Pedals sending PC#s 001-005 to call Katana Channels 1-5 on FCB Bank 00, and PC#s 006-008 on FCB Bank 01 Pedals 6-8 for Katana Channels 6-8. Program changes are virtually instantaneous.

Later tonight I'll set it up on the Helix, don't see why it shouldn't work, just a slightly different strategy for the pedal assignments.

Again, thanks all!

rd2rk

Unfortunately, the Helix's funky midi implementation makes it nearly useless with the Katana.
When you select a preset on Helix, it automatically sends the PC# of THAT preset (128 presets numbered 0-127 per "Setlist". The Katana sees 0 as 1, so it works IF you use the first 8 Helix presets, or setup the Katana to use whatever presets the Helix sends it, +1). You can have it send another PC# of your choosing along with it, but you can't stop the automatic behavior. Likewise, any button/switch that you have set to send a toggling CC# will send that CC#and Saved Value on preset select, like it or not!

So, unless you configure every Helix preset to match the on/off status of the effects in the Katana preset selected, the results will not be what you expect.

The FCB1010 is perfectly adapted to the Katana, since there's only 4 effects on the Katana and 5 Stomps on the FCB1010/UNO, it only sends the PC# you program it to send, and sending the Stomp CC# and Value is optional.

I just wish there was a way to scroll the 3 effects in each category - like if I wanted to use the #2 or #3 Booster instead of the one saved with the preset....

In case you're wondering why I'd want to use the Helix with the Katana in the first place, if you send the Helix output with a full signal chain (amp, FX, with or without cab) to the Katana's Loop Return (placed Post Reverb), it sounds great, and allows for a LOT more sound options. There's lots of other combinations possible using 4cm with the Helix, and the ability to place the Loop on the Katana Post Amp or Post Reverb adds even more. Hopefully, a future update will allow placement of the Loop wherever you want it...

Anyway, having the Helix AND the FCB on the floor at the same time takes up a LOT of real estate, and I wish L6 would improve on the midi sending options of the Helix. I'm not holding my breath.

vtgearhead

Quote from: rd2rk on October 22, 2017, 12:40:56 PM
I just wish there was a way to scroll the 3 effects in each category - like if I wanted to use the #2 or #3 Booster instead of the one saved with the preset....

There is: 

http://www.primovasound.com/midx_20.html

Can do that and much, much more.

rd2rk

Sorry, should have been more specific. Wish there was a way to scroll the 3 effects without spending another $185, like, directly, with one of the controllers I already have! Though, if it was really important to have full control, a VooDoo Labs Ground Control and a Korg nanoKontrol with the MidX would pretty much cover ALL the bases! Cost more than the amp, but what the hey....

Meanwhile, the GA-FC works fine for basic LIVE work, two banks of four - Clean, Crunch, Lead and Brown with different effects on each bank, and the ability to load different Livesets from a tablet, makes for a pretty flexible rig.

admin

#15
Quote from: rd2rk on October 23, 2017, 07:12:06 PM
Sorry, should have been more specific. Wish there was a way to scroll the 3 effects without spending another $185, like, directly, with one of the controllers I already have! Though, if it was really important to have full control, a VooDoo Labs Ground Control and a Korg nanoKontrol with the MidX would pretty much cover ALL the bases! Cost more than the amp, but what the hey....

Meanwhile, the GA-FC works fine for basic LIVE work, two banks of four - Clean, Crunch, Lead and Brown with different effects on each bank, and the ability to load different Livesets from a tablet, makes for a pretty flexible rig.

For 90% of the folks who need more effects with katana Amp - try running Guitar into an A/B Box ( A Out> Katana Input, B Out > GT-1 Input and feed  Boss GT-1 output into the Katana Aux input

Details here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19581.msg140782#msg140782