GT-1 - Odd static with GT-1

Started by pasha811, November 23, 2016, 10:03:12 AM

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pasha811

Using GT-1 with my two Guitars I have different results:

Fender Strat Plus : No Static
LTD ST-213 : Static

Static does not happen continuously but at times, especially when using Acoustic Simulator and very Clean sounds.
Usually when I have only one hand on the neck and the right hand gets back on the bridge.

On a side note this behavior does not happen with VG99.
GT-1 USB connected to iMac or not, the static is there, even using headphones but always running on batteries.

Any suggestion?
 
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Elantric

#1
Post pics of the LTD Guitar
LTD ST-213 : Static

sounds like static discharge - common if the guitar has a plastic pickguard near where you strum

add earth shielding foil tape under the pickguard solves it.

Solve Electrostatic Discharge "rice crispy" sounds
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12895.msg78045#msg78045

or a grounding issue - common if you have "Black Chrome" plated metal bridge / tailpiece.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=16061.msg116305#msg116305


pasha811

#2
I will post Pics.
ST-213 it's a Stratocaster clone from ESP LTD 2015 Model, now discontinued.
Mine, it's three single coils with higher than conventional output (or so they claim)
Last time I changed the string I could not resist giving a look under the pickguard.
The isolation (if I well remember) it's only around the Volume, Tone, Tone area.
I can't tell for sure if also the pickups area has a thin aluminum foil.
The Tremolo route has a big soldering (black wire) like my Strat has it looks a good solder.
What makes me crazy it's that with VG99 the ST-213 does not 'discharge'.
It's a single discharge here and there especially heard when I am not playing.
A look inside the ST-213 will confirm the doubts.  :P

Conversely The Strat Plus has a thicker pickguard and aluminum foil all over the place. 100% sure, I got photos.

Acoustic Guitar strumming sure charges the plastic pickguard especially if not isolated and less than super quality.
If my understanding is correct in your article I have to free the pickguard from any control or pickup and then
apply the aluminum foil with glue, then put Pickups and Controls in place again. This can happen without de-solder
any part.



Thanks!





Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

Just the picture of the guitar.
At the next Strings change I'll take pictures and add the aluminum foil.

Thanks!
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

#4
So today I installed an additional aluminum foil under my pickguard. The static went away! :-) Elantric's Magic!
However I have now more noise than before in positions 1.3.5 of my LTD 213 (strat like wiring).
Can it be that I made something wrong? I have connected my aluminum foil to the existing one, not removing the pots and 5 position switch. See photos for details. Maybe there's no continuum between the two. Any suggestion?


Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Elantric

#5
QuoteI have now more noise in positions 1.3.5 of my LTD 213 (strat like wiring).

typical attributes for single coil pickups

As you play guitar - rotate your whole body  90 degrees to minimize  hum

or swap the pickups for noiseless - hum cancelling types

pasha811

Quote from: Elantric on December 07, 2016, 10:58:12 AM
typical attributes for single coil pickups

As you play guitar - rotate your whole body  90 degrees to minimize  hum

or swap the pickups for noiseless - hum cancelling types

Thanks Elantric.
Happens only when OD or Comp are engaged. It was not there before. Maybe I broke some ground wiring...or can it be that the additional shield heals the static but 'gets more hum' from external sources? When Guitar Volume at 0, no noise. As a reference my Strat Plus makes a 'normal' distant noise using the same GT-1 patches.
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Elantric

#7
If hum remains constant and makes no difference when you touch the strings - you have a broken string earth ground  wire  - typically Ground wire is tied to the rear tremolo spring claw


to the final 1/4" output jack 

pasha811

Quote from: Elantric on December 07, 2016, 11:11:26 AM
If hum remains constant and makes no difference when you touch the strings - you have a broken string earth ground  wire  - typically Ground wire is tied to the rear tremolo spring claw


to the final 1/4" output jack 


Thanks!
BTW hum goes away when I touch the strings on the neck with my left hand. I have to rotate 180 degrees to cancel. What puzzles me is that it was not there. . Wi-Fi is off. Radio phone is off. Lights off. Tomorrow I'll check the wiring once again. I suspect the Aluminum foil I added might not be effectively grounded..
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pasha811

Well,

Today as promised I reopened the pick up cavity and began testing for noise. It was just like playing hide and seeks with goblins but in the end I did the following:


  • Made sure that the Aluminum Foil was making contact with the existing counterpart only, no other contact in any other place
  • Made sure the screws from the pickups and the pick guard were not making contact with Aluminum foil
  • Made sure that wires were not pinched or damaged in any way
  • Insulate all 'suspect' parts from making contact by using insulating tape to be sure that the added Aluminum foil made contact only with its counterpart already present in the pickguard Volume/Tone/Tone area.

After this long work which required patience to take away all the excess of Aluminum foil all over the place, the noise has come back to normal single-coil noise. Present in positions 1.3.5 and canceled in 2.4 but now I can use GT-1 P05 patch without resembling a jet airplane and Alex H. 'That Magic Touch' patch I got from Tone Studio in all positions.
In addition the Guitar and GT-1 relationship it's not Crisp-Rice and Popcorn town anymore even if some popcorn happens but less than before. My test patch it's P11.
Just to be a little scientific, the Alex H. patch comes with Noise Gate setting at : Tresh 30. I had to ramp up this to 70 yesterday.
This just to give the idea of the noise.
I am no DIY person but I suspect that I created several ground loops between the Aluminum foil and the rest of the electronics. In-fact the Aluminum foil was making contact more than twice... 1 with the Aluminum back already present, 1 with the 5 position switch and 1 with the Volume pot! Without considering that all pickup screws (6) were making contact with the aluminum foil as I did not clean the holes perfectly. Lesson learned. A tidy work it's always better.
Wait for the comments from the DIY experts here as it will help me in my learning curve.

Best
Pasha




Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

The static is back. The hum is not.
I am afraid that something went wrong with aluminum foil.
Maybe I have to swap the original one with another that comes with Aluminum foil out of the box.

On a parallel thinking, can it be the trem block inside the cavity made of under-spec materials?
:o
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admin

#11
A heated room in Winter has Lower humidity, and that promotes static discharge.

pasha811

Quote from: admsustainiac on December 19, 2016, 08:41:58 AM
A heated room in Winter has Lower humidity, and that promotes static discharge.

Thanks.
What gets me mad it's that the old 1989 Fender Strat Plus does not show any static. That's why I am pointing at the guitar.
On a side note, however, I have to admit that when Guitar Sim or Acoustic Simulator is engaged in GT-1 I observe higher probability
of static discharge. Static happens more when strumming (with AC SIM) but also when soloing clean with Guitar SIM.
I think I am in front of a multiple edges problem here.. I'll investigate.
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Elantric

#13
Its understandable you hear more static in the GT-1's Acoustic Simulator - that's because that mode boosts the high frequencies and any static electricity discharge encountered during strumming will be far more easily heard and noticed in that mode.

Avoid guitars with a full plastic pick guard (like a Strat, Jaguar, Jazzmaster) can solve this.

I get zero static discharge with my J-Mascis Jazzmaster due to the all metal gold anodized aluminum pickguard - same as Leo Fender specified in 1959 for this same reason. 




read and follow all directions here


Solve Electrostatic Discharge "rice crispy" sounds
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12895.msg78045#msg78045



and alternate method in video below- but I find this a temporary solution


pasha811

#14
Thanks Elantric,
I have followed that instruction set.
However I dismantled only the pickups and added a foil with glue that makes contact only in one point (in my second iteration, after the hum due to internal ground loop). I think that on the second pass I fixed the hum but for some reason I reintroduced statics. Maybe what I need to do is start from a clean pickguard with no pots, PU or 5 position switch and then add the foil so that it's continuous and does not create ground loops... Or I have to quit playing this guitar with my current garment, made of synthetic fibers and Wool. It's damn cold in North Italy now..

I have in this case found a Strat that mimics your Jazzmaster:

http://www.guitarsoffers.com/images/201403/goods_img/79_P_1395411724772.jpg

That's anodized aluminum!

Regards
Pasha

BTW you have tons of guitars and always surprise me!  8)
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Elantric

#15
To eliminate the static discharge, you must cover  the entire back of the plastic pickguard with grounded metal foil - aluminum foil or copper tape - not just a small area near the pickups  / controls - that will not stop the static discharge. Must line the entire back area of the plastic pickguard to be effective.

pasha811

Quote from: Elantric on December 19, 2016, 02:25:04 PM
To eliminate the static discharge, you must cover  the entire back of the plastic pickguard with grounded metal foil - aluminum foil or copper tape - not just a small area near the pickups  / controls - that will not stop the static discharge. Must line the entire back area of the plastic pickguard to be effective.

Thanks. I'll check if I left some 'naked' portion out.
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/