FTP - new triple play many problems. HELP!!

Started by musicamex, April 19, 2015, 02:41:05 PM

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Elantric

Quotei hope we eventually meet up at a NAMM show.

I go every year  - each year i post open invitation for NAMM attendees to hookup

QuoteIts a new year, and I will be in Anaheim California at Winter NAMM  next week. Send me a PM if you are also at NAMM show and want to meet up.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6125.msg54182#msg54182

Spider

It is possible to use FTP with very cheap Windows 8.1 tablet (Dell Venue Pro 8). Of course you must know where is it's limit  but it is possible. Very good solution is use for example better tablet like Yoga Tablet 2 AnyPen 8" (2 GB RAM, more space inside tablet, superb battery).


Elantric

#27
QuoteIt is possible to use FTP with very cheap Windows 8.1 tablet (Dell Venue Pro 8). Of course you must know where is it's limit  but it is possible. Very good solution is use for example better tablet like Yoga Tablet 2 AnyPen 8" (2 GB RAM, more space inside tablet, superb battery).

Most Windows tablets do not have enough room to install the complete FTP Bundle
They are fine for running remote control GUI apps , But most fail the minimum performance criteria. I know a similar horsepower older Windows netbook with 2GB RAM and Intel Atom CPUs (and most cheap Windows Tablets today) simply are not up to the task IMHO

By contrast  - the iPad with Apple USB Camera Adapter works with any Fishman Tripleplay. I can get to work in seconds!



Spider

Quote from: Elantric on April 23, 2015, 02:32:52 PM
Most Windows tablets do not have enough room to install the complete FTP Bundle
They are fine for running remote control GUI apps , But most fail the minimum performance criteria. I know a similar horsepower older Windows netbook with 2GB RAM and Intel Atom CPUs (and most cheap Windows Tablets today) simply are not up to the task IMHO

By contrast  - the iPad with Apple USB Camera Adapter works with any Fishman Tripleplay. I can get to work in seconds!


It is not exactly true. I installed on cheap tablet: FTP app, Kontakt 5 LE, full Guitar Rig 5, S-Gear 2.5, FM 8, Kore 2, Masive, Korg Legacy Collection, IL MiniHost modular and more... ca. 20 GB of data on tablet with 5 GB free standard flash memory . Of course 1 GB RAM isn't so much so it is not possible to run too many VST at once etc.

yuri

#29
Hi, Spider ( I see you use Kontakt 5 LE version). as we know version Kontakt 5 is the demo version of Kontakt FTP software - how  I can  changed this mode at not demo version  (full Kontakt 5 FTP mode)  ,to load full Kontakt library instruments ? .Thanks

Spider

Just install kontakt 5 in full version with libraries which you like. It is transparent for FTP app.

yuri

Do
You mean I have to buy Kontakt 5 at service center for activated this? but 400 bugs

Spider

You must buy Kontakt on NI site and download libraries for it. But...wait...this is interesting... Just now Kontakt 5 cost 399 EUR for boxed version!!! Komplet 10 only 100 EUR more.

yuri

Ahh I see it  now . At this point I should  buy Komplete 10 for 100 euro more. I love FTP with Native Instruments it  is phenomenal combination. Thanks

musicamex

Back from Mexico City  (great trip to a beautiful part of a HUGE city).  I'm ready to hook up to Fishmans remote on monday and see if i can get any decent response from my windows 7 machine.  It is 4 gig intel core 3 and only half of the hd is used even after downloading all of the FTP software.  I have about 3 tb of external drives for archiving stuff i dont need to keep on the laptop.  I'll try to give a fair honest review of how it goes on monday with the remote hookup.

Even though I'd  really like to stay with windows because it is what we use for biz and home, i really like the ipad option like Electric suggests for a simple gig solution.  I dont need hundreds of studio quality patches to wow the "margarita crowd".  If i can get alternative  tunings and a dozen simple salad dressing Patches for gigs, that would simplify the gig setups.

yuri

#35
Surely you can not be disappointed with  FTP, it is  great controller that opens the door to the world of great  instruments (immensity). The rest is to be learned  to use with your rig  and  right configuration (that valley  also for me) but I assure you    FTP works great!  not  is perfect as many things , but FTP is definitely the best midi controller for guitar at the world .

Elantric

Quotemy windows 7 machine.  It is 4 gig intel core 3 and only half of the hd is used

My 2cents, lowest achievable latency on windows machines is directly associated with the speed and power of your computer. An i5 Intel is the minimum I'd use. An i3 will exhibit higher latency

musicamex

I had a successful session with Frank from Fishman and am starting to actually get into grin mode.  The learning curve seems steeper than i had hoped but I'll get there eventually.  Frank was a personable and very nice guy.  He seems to be quite busy and you need to set up a remote session with him at least the day b4. It took about 2 hrs of him being inside my computer to get the midi programs to respond to the guitar.  I was along for the ride so i can't tell you what actually went wrong, but i suspect the very long downloads across the border had some part of the blame.  Surely i did too and i still think Fishman should offer a usb memory stick version of the setup available, at least as an upgrade, to streamline this overly complex process.

A few things i still am confused about that might have simple answers and can avoid having me setting up more time with fishman:

Do all of the patches require individual string strength settings?  With the strings set at the reccomended distance from the pup, i have to lower the signal to 1 to keep them out of the red on many patches but also this varies from one patch to the other.  Ie, once i set the signal strength for each string it isnt right for many other factory patches.

Im headed to oregon and lax at the end of the month and would like to order some other essential gear to help my plan.  I want to be able to play both the regular guitar pups through the Guitar rig setup and the ftp midi patches, through a house pa at a club i play at.  I am still unclear as to what i need to make this happen other than the guitar with the FTP  and a computer.  If the guitar pups are feeding a non midi signal into the mic input of the computer, wont that work?  Maybe there is a diagram somewhere that i missed showing the several setup possibilities and how to wire them, mainly the guitar rig interface.  This would be for a solo sunday morning brunch gig where ideally everything would be one trip in.  All through the house pa.
Any other gear suggestions?  I think another laptop is in order, but i think I'll stick with windows and am leaning toward solid state drive for longer battery life.  Still havent made up my mind.  Any suggestions on should have or must have gear? Any group buy stuff that fits?  If i need an interface for guitar rig that was included, is there anything i might already have that might serve work?

Id really like to keep the additional costs bearable until i decide if i like the FTP enough to get in too deep.  Especially if the gear is JUST for the fishman setup.  I can always use another laptop or flip it if i want to get something more appropriate.

My first impressions are somewhat mixed, but that probably has to do with the complexity of so much computer software not from the producer.  I think the latency, even on a core 3 machine is ok, but i get errant squeaks and peeps i dont get with the same setup played 13 pin.  That might just be tweaks i need to make in my style and getting used to a magnetic hex pup again.  But so far, despite the bundle making an axon or vg99 seem like grade school by comparison, i am optimistic that even an old fart might make this a valuable tool.

Thanks again for all of the help and suggestions.  Whereas frank from fishman was very helpful and got the basic wrinkles ironed out, here there is allot more interaction and i learn allot.  Believe me, i have lots to learn re this new setup and hope the questions dont become tedious for you.


shawnb

#38
You should only need to make your sensitivity settings once.   I suspect your issue is more on patch configuration - you need to also learn your VSTs, and how to set levels within them.   You also might want to tweak the FTP dynamics settings for each patch.

For now, my recommendation is that you work with the bundles you have in hand.   Dont invest in more software until you've mastered the 4 packages you've downloaded.   There are plenty of usable patches & instruments in those versions of Amplitube, Guitar Rig, Kontakt & Sampletank. 

Play around for a few weeks.  Learn those packages well before making further investment - you'll be wiser, know the technology better, & understand the strengths of each package better.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

musicamex

Have you hooked up your guitar's pups through "guitar rig " software and gotten the mix of guitar and midi out ofthe computer?  That is what i hope to achieve.  I have ghost /acoustiphonic at a trs jack on my guitar.  I can split that so i have acoustic (ish) guitar, the mag pup through guitar rig and the midi patches all through the house pa.  I guess im not clear on how to use the guitar rig software in combo with the midi. 

I certainly plan on continuing to learn the ropes of kontak and sample tank.  Id like to get some additional gear ordered to take advantage of my upcoming stateside trip.  This time of the year the possibilities of snow birds and tourist friends bring stuff in dries up.  The sweat and hold season has begun.

Elantric

Read the FTP FAQ
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.0

and download all PDF help files from the Fishman site

QuoteHave you hooked up your guitar's pups through "guitar rig " software and gotten the mix of guitar and midi out ofthe computer?  That is what i hope to achieve

Thats covered here:

Tutorial #2: Adding Traditional Guitar Audio
http://www.fishman.com/software/tripleplay/help/tripleplay_tut2.pdf


Creating GuitarRig presets in Fishman TriplePlay basics

shawnb

Quote from: musicamex on May 05, 2015, 01:05:47 PM
Have you hooked up your guitar's pups through "guitar rig " software and gotten the mix of guitar and midi out ofthe computer?  That is what i hope to achieve.

All the time!   I frequently mix in synth - a lead or pad - to accent my guitar.   

You can do this using the FTP app.   I suggest starting there.  Learn how the factory patches work & how to assign patches to the different channels on the FTP UI.   There are existing factory patches with Guitar Rig utilized.   


Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

musicamex

Thanks!  It will be my bedtime reading tonight.

On another topic in this thread re an appropriate laptop i found some interesting usb info.  Is seems a usb 2.0 device plugged into a 3.0 socket should default to 2.0 operation, and a 3.0 will also work in a 2.0 socket, albeit at 2.0 speeds.  Here is a link to diagrams from a cat from intel.
http://www.usb.org/developers/presentations/pres0410/1-2_SSUSB_DevCon_Arch_Overview_Dunstan.pdf

Interesting that transition laptops provide both in some cases.  I understand many older 2.0 devices can have glitches with 3.0 protocol, but the FTP dongle wouldnt fall into that category, would it?  Has anyone had problems with a 3.0 interface.  I'm  doing my laptop homework hoping to get a windows machine and the fastest core 7 processer machines seem to have gone to 3.0.  The models with 2.0 as well have slower processors.

Re a windows 8.1 machine, is a touchscreen a real benefit?  I have been looking at this hp which Is ahead of most, especially considering price, but it doesnt have touch screen.

http://www.costco.com/HP-ENVY-17t-Quad-Laptop-%7c-Intel-Core-i7-%7c-1080p-%7c-Backlit-Keyboard.product.100155507.html

Any other windows guys having success with FTP?


Elantric

#43
The FTP USB Recever is designed for USB 2.0 , but it works with all  USB 3.0 Host ports on the computers Ive tried (2011 Lenovo W520, 2013 Acer R7, 2012 Macbook Pro Retina) 


The big hurdle is the third party 24 bit USB Audio interface  - most do not work with the  USB 3.0 port found on recent Windows laptops.

If shopping for a new Windows Laptop - i advise find one that specifically calls out featuring a combination of both USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 ports.

You need the USB 2.0 port for quality Audio I/O
   
Additional Audio Interface reading
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=193.0


USB 3.0 compatible chipsets for Audio Interfaces
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8562.0

and

Presonus AudioBox Interfaces- NOT Recommended
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8277.0


Elantric


musicamex

Ive decided to try a new computer i described in a new thread i just posted here.  I decided to have a laptop devoted to music.  I still have been so frustrated with the ftp even after Frank 's help getting it installed and going through the tutorials i decided to start again with a clean download onto a ssd in a laptop that far exceeds the fishman specs.  I will reserve the 256g ssd for fishman related programs and the windows os.  There is also a 1tb 7200rpm  hd for storage of non related programs and files.

Some of what i have been experiencing on my core i3 machine with 4gb ram and over half of a 500g disc still free are the following:

Ftp locks up and i get a message saying the program won't respond, do i want to wait or close the program.  The ftp screen turns grey and the wait dial spins.  Waiting doesnt help.  Neither does closing the program.  It happens again Within 5 min of starting.  The factory patches which were all white and worked for 1 day after franks help have mostly turned red and no longer do anything.  Today the white patches wouldnt make a sound through either earphones or the laptop's speakers after working on the first patch i was on but not on anything else, even the first patch when i went back to it.  I decided not to bother frank until i get the new computer and try again.  There are WAY TOO MANY problems and quirks to not want to start again from scratch with a new dedicated laptop.  I REALLY WANT THIS TO WORK!

Has anyone done that?  I mean can the licenses etc be used again or are they one time for one computer?

shawnb

#46
Your license is independent of your computer.    You can run the FTP on as many computers as you like.   (There is only one FTP, which is the real limitation.)

The NI and IK software, IIRC, allow 2 installations each.    But even there, those are not tied to computers - if you replace a computer, you can transfer the license.

The lockups and other problems you describe are not normal FTP software behavior.  I suspect you have some software conflicts/resource limitations.   Getting audio - any audio, not just FTP - software running stable on a pc requires a lot of pc care & maintenance to work...
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

musicamex

Thanks for taking the time to answer this on Memorial day.  Just a regular day in the tropics.  I suspect my computer is too bloated to accomodate the fishman.   Ill find out when i get back in 2 weeks.  I plan to do the downloads at a friends studio who has 20mbs connectivity.

If you didnt read my other thread, i leave on wed morn and want to order a usb interface for both midi and audio.  I want something around $100 ish if possible, as my fishman experiment has now gone well beyond the 4 digit mark.  But i know junk is junk, and having a midi/audio interface and a better laptop will also make my roland, axon, emu and other gear more useful.  So I  get the cheap is expensive parable and would pay more for something good, if necessary.

Can you help me with your savvy, Shawn?   I need to get it ordered b4 my trip starts wed morning.  There is SO MUCH information here when i do a search i get lost.

I am determined to get this fishman to work and make it part  of the simplified yet powerful gig rig it promises to deliver.  With this forums help, you and others give me hope.  I would have gone back to my hardware rigs by now without your help.  Even us chuck berry era cats stand a chance of staying in the game this way.  It's been a long winding road from plugging a mic and guitar into the same tube amp with NO other options.  But what an interesting road it's been.!

shawnb

#48
Suggest you search around a bit.

We have a whole board here dedicated to audio interfaces:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=193.0

And a thread where folks share their experiences with specific audio interfaces:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8291.0

I was aiming for cheap for my FTP rig & went for one of the low-end Focusrite devices:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8291.msg61300#msg61300

In the past I've always been happy with Echo & Roland/Edirol devices also.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

shawnb

#49
A latency checker may help you objectively determine whether your old i3 system has issues, & maybe even help you diagnose the specific issue. 

The two most commonly used (free) tools for Windows are listed here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15087.msg107771;topicseen#msg107771
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp