GP10 CTRL pedals layout and Live use

Started by pasha811, November 14, 2014, 07:43:24 AM

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pasha811

Question for all of you using GP10 live for some time.
Although I am convinced about the sound quality and possibilities (beyond the 1 FX block limitation),
I am a little skeptical about the new layout Roland choose for the CTRL/UP-Down Pedals.
In a Live situation, maybe when singing at the same time, do you feel comfortable when you press the CTRL pedals?
Is it better to have CTRL 3/4 added with a FS-6 for better error free operation?

Thanks in advance
Best
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Elantric

Actually I love the new pedal arrangement on GP-10, ME-80, FS-7  - I never hit the wrong CTL pedal  or Patch Change pedal  - and its a nice tidy small real estate space on cramped stages I play.

mbenigni

I only owned a GP10 for a short time, and I never used it live, but I'll throw in my 2 cents: it's a great pedal arrangement.  I was skeptical when I first saw it because the CTL pedals are above the patch UP/DOWN pedals, and it seemed you'd be likely to hit the latter accidentally when going for the former.  But in practice it works fine due to the mechanical resistance of the pedals themselves - sufficient that you can feel around for the correct target, or rest your feet on them between presses.

zaboomafoohere

I am going to use GP-10 live next weekend instead of HD500. Pedal switches should be ok, although during rehearsals I managed to press patch change when I was aiming for CTL 1. I don't switch too often during the songs so I am not concerned about that.

I also use an external STRL 3/4 pedal (DIY).

My problem is using GK3 to control guitar simulations. I use guitar volume for dynamics and to clear my sound. With the volume knob positioned all the way to the right this becomes a problem. Also the volume knob on GK3 reaches 100 already at about 90% position which does not help (is there a way to calibrate GK3 volume knob?).

Switching pickups works ok with S1/S2 however there is no visual indication which pickup is selected.

I am thinking on building one guitar with internal mounted GK3 and probably some kind of remote where I would have better control of the guitar sounds.

zbf

MusicOverGear

+1 on pedal design: they are great. I will say that using UP/DN as the only means of patch change was frustrating for me, though. Worked best when I limited the range of patches to 3, but then that limitation was frustrating.

But the switches are fantastic - really good interface design IMHO.

pasha811

Quote from: MusicOverGear on November 14, 2014, 02:34:38 PM
+1 on pedal design: they are great. I will say that using UP/DN as the only means of patch change was frustrating for me, though. Worked best when I limited the range of patches to 3, but then that limitation was frustrating.

But the switches are fantastic - really good interface design IMHO.

MusicOverGear, 3 is the perfect number.. I tried with VG99 to emulate that with CTRL3/4. Patch Clean, Patch -1 Shredder, Patch +1 Lead in a circle... but yes it's frustrating. That's why the eureka moment is to use the assigns on every patch with 4 modifiers (CTRL1 to 4) plus the EXP Pedal switch.  ;D
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Elantric

#6
My GP-10 Patch change "Trick" is make a Duplicate of your Rhythm Preset for every other patch - that way you cant wander too far off into "no mans land" at the live gig.   I can play a whole night with just 6 patch locations  -  comprised of Three different "Solo/Lead" presets and three duplicates of my Rhythm preset placed in between all my Solo presets.

BackDAWman

I've use the GP-10 live. I haven't hit the wrong switches yet but I always feel that it will happen eventually. I ended up automating everything (Patch Changes and CCs) through Logic Pro X. Leaves me free to perform.

pasha811

Quote from: Elantric on November 18, 2014, 01:38:42 PM
My GP-10 Patch change "Trick" is make a Duplicate of your Rhythm Preset for every other patch - that way you cant wander too far off into "no mans land" at the live gig.   I can play a whole night with just 6 patch locations  -  comprised of Three different "Solo/Lead" presets and three duplicates of my Rhythm preset placed in between all my Solo presets.

Elantric are you on a single genre band? I play now in a multi-genre band so I need more of that... but if I 'personalize' the sound and do not care about the original I really see a good suggestion in your post. Who cares? Rhythm Preset + Lead Preset can suffice most songs! For example we play a song where I need three patches (timbres..) one Rhythm Preset, One Lead and one with GR300 used as a pad with my Guitar beneath. That's why the Assign feature is so important for me.

Ciao
Paolo
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

supernicd

Quote from: pasha811 on November 19, 2014, 03:31:52 AM
Elantric are you on a single genre band? I play now in a multi-genre band so I need more of that... but if I 'personalize' the sound and do not care about the original I really see a good suggestion in your post. Who cares? Rhythm Preset + Lead Preset can suffice most songs! For example we play a song where I need three patches (timbres..) one Rhythm Preset, One Lead and one with GR300 used as a pad with my Guitar beneath. That's why the Assign feature is so important for me.

You know, I'd actually be curious how many here who play cover tunes live do this.  I used to be really fanatical about trying to dial in the exact tone of the guitar of the song being played.  I'd probably spend more time on that than actually rehearsing the part.  Ironically, though the tools that I have at my disposal for doing this improved greatly over the years, I care less and less about it now.  What I've noticed is that I don't think the audiences ever cared about the laborious hours I spent "tone matching".

Currently gigging with a VG-99, and over the course of a night (40-45 songs) in what I'd call a multi-genre band, I think I have less than 10 presets to cover it.  The majority of the songs are handled by 3 or 4 presets, and there are just a handful of specialty 1 song=1 patch kind of presets.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#10
If you want to establish a career in music - work on your chops and play the best you can - spend less time worrying about trying to sound 100% like the record. Even the band you are trying to sound like never sounds like the record at live shows - and frankly if they do and play their record note for note live, and never stray from that format - you put the audience to sleep.


I saw Foreigner 3 years ago and they sounded just like the record , every song played note for note, zero improvisation  - even had Jason Bonham on Drums for that tour - I had a nice  2 hour nap  it was extremely  B O R I N G

When I played in a 6 piece dance cover band  - we would play the 3 minute song like the record - but then to keep the dance floor going - we'd stretch each song another 5 minutes as long as the dance floor was already grooving and filled  - Id play extended improve solos across verse / Bridge - and band would typically jump back for vocals on the third chorus and back into the tune. I once got an offer to audition for Alphonse Mouzon - he told me my playing reminded him of Tommy Bolin.



I get more thrills watching someone who stretches out and plays smoking guitar at the calibre of Jeff Beck, Joe Bonamassa, Vernon Reid, Jeff Pevar, Tom Bukovac,  Adrian Belew - none of those guys play the exact solo every night - and neither should you!  Live show means spontaneity, treat each solo as if and you have the opportunity to take the crowd on a musical  journey !

pasha811

Quote from: Elantric on November 19, 2014, 05:31:19 AM
I get more thrills watching someone who stretches out and plays smoking guitar at the calibre of Jeff Beck, Joe Bonamassa, Vernon Reid, Jeff Pevar, Tom Bukovac,  Adrian Belew - none of those guys play the exact solo every night - and neither should you!  Live show means spontaneity, treat each solo as if and you have the opportunity to take the crowd on a musical  journey !

Elantric did I already tell you that you are great didn't I?
With this last post you just conquered #1 post of the year for me. It's something I try to share with my music mates along the years.. with mixed results. They insist a solo it's a solo and has that notes and that duration.. and I play it according to my feelings. That caused fights.. but now I am in a band where my music mates thinks more alike.. :-)

If you could see the VG99 user patches I have got you'll find that I have 10 patches to cover it all area:

Clean,Rhythm,Shred #1, Shred#2, LP Lead (meaty solos)
Acoustic*, Jazz*, Pad, Synth Solo, Lead Mag PU (Strat Plus) 

Acoustic & Jazz have a special CTRL3 Assign that triggers solo.

Another area that is patch by patch with CTRL3 solo channel B switch and CTRL4 as a 'modifier' for Channel A.
UP/DOWN triggered by S1/S2 and a solid and extensive usage of Mag PU.

I am still discovering what I like the most and what is most useful to me.
I have also to sing so the simpler the better.







Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Elantric

#12
Everyone has different goals - i didn't pick up the guitar to be a human Jukebox

For me its all about expressing transcendent feelings  - my Guitar is an outlet for effective non verbal spontaneous communication through improvised music that breaks all traditional language barriers on the globe.

I never want to be less entertaining and "upstaged" by one of these:

giffenf

8-minute dance tunes (3-minute song plus 5 minutes of improv)?  I know a bunch of swing dancers who would really not like you.   ;D

But more on topic, I've used my GP-10 for about a dozen gigs, and I haven't had any trouble with the new pedals; like the others, I'm growing fonder of them.  This is what my GP-10 board looks like:



The FS-6 and the GP-10 provide almost enough buttons to tweak the GP-10 to my needs (would rather have an FC-300, but whaddya gonna do?), and in my pointy cowboy boots, those upper pedals are easy to reach. 

Elantric

#14


I also see a brown footpedal for a Quilter Micropro MP200
http://www.quilterlabs.com/index.php/products/micropro-200

How do you like/ rate that amp?

Which Lead channel 2 setting do you use?



Last weekend I played a gig with Pat Quilter's brother  - Matt Quilter and his MicropPro "mini stack"  sounded great.

giffenf

That big footswitch stays at home most of the time, because it takes up a lot of room on stage, and I usually only switch two things:  the channel, and the boost, so I usually use the 2-button model.  I've become something of a Quilter evangelist.  I have the MicroPro 200/8 combo with a Quilter 1-12 extension cabinet.  The two of those together create some kind of tonal synergy that far outdoes what a 1-12 cabinet will typically do as an extension speaker.  The 8" in the combo is somewhat magical by itself, I've used it as a guitar amp and PA simultaneously and played plenty loud for a medium-sized room, as well as for an acoustic amp at an outdoor wedding, by the ocean, and it got nice and loud.  I use the combo and cab on all my country gigs for electric and acoustic (real acoustic guitars as well as VG-99, GR-55, and GP-10 models).  I also bought the MicroPro head and use that in any number of cabinet combinations.  For my rockabilly band, I use it with a 2x12 cabinet I assembled with a Swamp Thang and a Ragin' Cajun, each speaker into its own speaker jack on the head.  The beauty (well, one of them) of the Quilters is that they don't care what impedance you plug into them, they'll still work.  You might not get all 100 or 200 watts out of it, but it won't hurt the amp.  Heck, they'll even run with no speakers, the XLR DI out on the back sounds great, too.  And if I plug a 4x12 cab into one jack, and a 4x10 into the other, it's loud enough to knock down walls.  Finally, not being content with just two, I bought their Steelaire steel guitar amp.  I don't play steel guitar, but it's squeaky clean, has plenty of headroom, and a custom-designed neo-magnet 15" speaker (so the whole amp doesn't weigh much) which I figured would sound spectacular with synths and modeled guitars.  Oddly, I haven't quite got that one dialed in yet, but I did loan it to the steel player once and he wants it now.

I use the "Full Q" setting on the MicroPros.  I like the tone I get out of it so much I haven't really spent any significant time with the other settings.  I do play around with the boost mode, sometimes I set it to "Loud," sometimes "Bright," and occasionally "Hot."  But the modeled instruments, especially the acoustic models, sound best through the clean channel, Channel 1.  Mag pickups sound better through the "gain" channel, Channel 2.  I'd be interested to see how their ToneBlock mini amp sounds with VG-powered gear, but unless somebody buys something I have for sale, that isn't going to be fiscally possible.

pasha811

Quote from: Elantric on November 19, 2014, 07:34:56 AM
Everyone has different goals - i didn't pick up the guitar to be a human Jukebox

For me its all about expressing transcendent feelings  - my Guitar is an outlet for effective non verbal spontaneous communication through improvised music that breaks all traditional language barriers on the globe.

I never want to be less entertaining and "upstaged" by one of these:


Very well put, thank you! :-)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

supernicd

QuoteIf you want to establish a career in music - work on your chops and play the best you can - spend less time worrying about trying to sound 100% like the record. Even the band you are trying to sound like never sounds like the record at live shows - and frankly if they do and play their record note for note live, and never stray from that format - you put the audience to sleep.

Agreed.  For me, having a period where I spent some time tone matching to a recorded guitar had some benefits though.  It was a good way to get a better mastery of tone stack controls, effects, signal chains, and how the different components interact.  I think it can be helpful during the learning process if you have some kind of target you're shooting for.  Even though I've abandoned the concept of trying to sound 100% like some particular recording, I'm now able to create better tones for myself.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

pasha811

#18
Quote from: SuperNiCd on November 20, 2014, 04:28:43 AM
Agreed.  For me, having a period where I spent some time tone matching to a recorded guitar had some benefits though.  It was a good way to get a better mastery of tone stack controls, effects, signal chains, and how the different components interact.  I think it can be helpful during the learning process if you have some kind of target you're shooting for.  Even though I've abandoned the concept of trying to sound 100% like some particular recording, I'm now able to create better tones for myself.

SuperNiCd you're right. It sounds weird but I am doing it now, after 25 years! With my band we played from 1984 to 2001 our music then we quit when the pubs here were asking for cover band and now tribute band. Some of us still play in tribute bands where you have to play and sound exactly the same (which I do not like and thus I left). I played many years alone (my music in the signature) and VG99 was the key enabler. This is a new exciting journey. Back to play with a band, get the rust off my head and hands (sequencer recording is different then playing with humans..) and finally we decided that we will make a mix of our songs and covers rearranged with our own way. New people, new exchanges, new points of view, new challenges.. new discoveries. So now after three years with VG99 I am discovering a new method to know the FX chains, sounds everything. I am rediscovering my Mag PU and starting with a fresh approach. Adding little by little what you need to achieve a sound you like. Before I was starting from a complex chain and removing things.. Now I enjoy so much the clean sounds, the COSM AMPs, Modeled Guitar and AMP reverb and delay a little chorus.. and my beloved GR300 Pad Patches with my signature synth sound. So this to tel you that I agree with what you said because I am living it now. I'd say that approaching maturity... you see things in a different way. :-)

Best
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Toby Krebs

Tribute bands....lots of those around here.I rehearsed one time with the local Stealing Nicks Stevie Nicks Fleetwood Mac tribute.After the practice when I woke up I asked them what in the hell they needed me for LOL!

Anyhoo...I would really like a GP10 but without bank changes or midi I cant cover enough ground quickly with it.My Gig requires Folsom Prison/Enter Sandman/Stratus(Tommy Bolin)/Forget You/ September/Guitars and Cadillacs/ It Had To Be You/My Girl etc....

A typical set for my regular band Wild Hair

I am getting it done right now with  a GT10(still really like it)/GR55 and a Roland KC300 all run direct to two Bose mains and a small sub.

of course one patch per song would work but I still have to get to that patch scrolling from 005 to 35
wont work for me

in a tribute band or one with less schizophrenic song lists it might work

really wanting some new small hardware/tones

a GT100 is too damn big

already have the GT10

enormous!

pasha811

Quote from: Toby Krebs on November 24, 2014, 10:03:48 AM
Tribute bands....lots of those around here.I rehearsed one time with the local Stealing Nicks Stevie Nicks Fleetwood Mac tribute.After the practice when I woke up I asked them what in the hell they needed me for LOL!

Anyhoo...I would really like a GP10 but without bank changes or midi I cant cover enough ground quickly with it.My Gig requires Folsom Prison/Enter Sandman/Stratus(Tommy Bolin)/Forget You/ September/Guitars and Cadillacs/ It Had To Be You/My Girl etc....

A typical set for my regular band Wild Hair

I am getting it done right now with  a GT10(still really like it)/GR55 and a Roland KC300 all run direct to two Bose mains and a small sub.

of course one patch per song would work but I still have to get to that patch scrolling from 005 to 35
wont work for me

in a tribute band or one with less schizophrenic song lists it might work

really wanting some new small hardware/tones

a GT100 is too damn big

already have the GT10

enormous!

Tony,

You're right. On many multi-FX pedal they put up&down pedals or like Zoom G3 banks with three patches each (but a rain dance to switch banks). Some still retain the old easy access to banks and patches like GT100/ME80. Up&Down works if you have laid out your gig in a linear way. Random access needs a MIDI pedalboard. However as I proved myself using VG99 to simulate GP10 if you use the assigns carefully you can change the sounds without a MIDI pedalboard and be happy with CTRL3/4 for assigns and S1/S2 for patches. However this method means that you have to rethink the layout of patches to match 1 patch=1 song and no more than 3 tones (base, lead and fx, attached to bare patch, CTRL 3 and CTRL 4). If your assign tampers with AMP volume then you might run into unnecessary complexity. I still have to find a convincing way to do that.... Or bring with me a Rolls MIDI pedal for Program Changes and be happy. ::)

Best
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Toby Krebs

what happens at my gig is after months of doing classic rock/jazz and blues nothing heavy using only a few patches I will be at a gig where a patron will walk up to us with a $100 bill and demand Crazy Train.
I have to be able to get to my bank of metal patches to play that song! I cant finger tap and do that Randy Rhodes thing without a lot of gain/ different amp etc...modeled and ready to go.
I want  that $100 and that patron will not wait for me to scroll down 20 presets

HE WANTS IT NOW DAMMIT!!!!

pasha811

Quote from: Toby Krebs on December 08, 2014, 12:40:54 PM
what happens at my gig is after months of doing classic rock/jazz and blues nothing heavy using only a few patches I will be at a gig where a patron will walk up to us with a $100 bill and demand Crazy Train.
I have to be able to get to my bank of metal patches to play that song! I cant finger tap and do that Randy Rhodes thing without a lot of gain/ different amp etc...modeled and ready to go.
I want  that $100 and that patron will not wait for me to scroll down 20 presets

HE WANTS IT NOW DAMMIT!!!!

I understand... in that case ME70 or 80 or GT100 do a nice job! Or a Vg99 with an FC300 or FCB1010 or a Rolls MIDI... different weights.. almost same results..
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Panthersn

Anyone having luck live use????  I played out and fat footed on the dual pedals a bunch of times (I have 2 FS5's for effects) skipped over my desired patch and disaster happened.  Starting to think due to its piss poor layout it might be best kept for light studio use.  Starting to think about sucking it up and going VG-99 & FC300 controller.   Its a shame because I like the sound. I have a rolled aluminum shell from an old project the size of a POD HD, might gut the GP-10 and loose those dual switches and fab up 6 standard stomp switches with LEDs, MacGyver time!!!