Is it possible to get JMclaughlin synclavier sound from gr-55 or vg-99 ? like...

Started by mostlyjazzer, April 18, 2013, 06:38:30 AM

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mostlyjazzer

Hey there everyone,
I am in love with John Mclaughlin guitar synth sound on a particular recording he made several years back
in one of many incarnation of the  Mahavishnu orchestra.
More specifically,
from the tune East side West side
with Bill Evans on sax, Mitch Formann on keys, Jonas Hellsborg on bass and Danny Gotlieb on drums.

here is a youtube link I found to the tune:



That sound.

Can it be done or approximated closely?

How would you do it?

Your thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

MJ

Bill Ruppert

Yes the VG-99 will do it easy and track like that.

I talked with John Mclaughlin years ago when this came out.
I told him I missed his real guitar sound in the show as he didnt use it, and he yelled at me!
HAHA he was so pissed off.

Ah memories.....


aliensporebomb

Hah!   ;D  John getting mad!  He always seems so Zen and calm but yeah, funny episode!

Let me second: yes, the VG will do that no problems. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

KezzTCP

Jm is a massive hero of mine - but I hated his syn sound!  Raw power of earlier Mahavishnu, plus amazing acoustic work with Shakti is what does it for me!

Another great in the fusion legacy is Joe Zawinul and I'm very interested in using/developing some of his keyboard synth sounds with the GR -55.  I'll post separately to see if anyone can help!
Godin LGXT with Roland Gr-55
Zoom G9.2tt
Fender Strat 1983
Hamer Artist Korina
Hamer SAQT GK3 loaded
Ovation Electro Acoustic
Tanglewood Earth 2000 Acoustic
G&L S-500
Antoria Memphis 74
Gibson Les Paul Special (hah!)

Life is full of surprises ........ as I don't know what I'm doing most of the time

aliensporebomb

I loved the raw Mahavishnu sound too.  What power!  He refined it a little in Mark II and by the time of Inner World's he had this BEASTLY lead sound (All in the Family, Way of the Pilgrim) he had a really great controllable sound but the band was disintegrating.

Inner Worlds was also famous because it was the first record I ever heard guitar synthesizer on (although Todd Rundgren's "A Wizard a True Star had it in 1973 I didn't hear that until later). 

It was a customized Gibson L5-S guitar with a hexaphonic pickup and controller into a bank of SIX mini moog modules.

Boy he could make that setup sound great. 

He also recorded a tune on that album called "Miles Out" that literally has the most insane guitar tones ever recorded, using a polyphonic ring mod type setup.  Yeow!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

germanicus

His acoustic guitar plus midi work on the two 'trio' albums floored me (Live at Royal Festival Hall and the follow up Que Alegria).

I think he was using a photon system.
The tracking sounded amazing.

Incredible albums musically.
Trilok Gurtu, Kai Eckhardt, Dominique Piazza....
Sheesh.

My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

mostlyjazzer

I'm happy to read all this,and hear others appreciation of JM. Still amazing today. I'm partial to the tones on Visions of the emerald beyond.
Loved both that punchy distortion sound and the synth sounds. I'm thinking of "On my way home down to earth", keyless rythmic patterns at times heading to the skies...stopping and re-starting...and a outer world eerie melody at end...... man! what inspiration....
Well, guess you all know what I'm talkin' about. I'm still haven't found the right recipe on the VG yet.
If I can only just figure it out.... That sharp edge sound wrapped in a flute wrapped in a synth wrapped in a...

I'm thinking using both pathways on the VG both cosm synth, one I think may need to be the crystal synth, but still exploring.


aliensporebomb

I love "Visions of the Emerald Beyond" too - it still sounds ahead of its time in spots.  That final melody on "on the way home to earth" is JMac on his doubleneck thru two Mesa Mark I's for stereo, the entire band, horns and string section padding and Gayle Moran is playing Mellotron of all things in that last segment.  I have a lead patch that will work and a Mellotron sound that should work but the live strings and horns intermixed along with the insane Walden/Armstrong rhythm section would be hard to duplicate on any gear - they were monsters.

Oh, regarding Inner Worlds - this song?  Ever hear the whole thing?


I was messing around on my VG-99 tonight and created a horrific lifelike resemblance (lol - I certainly can't play like John):


I figured the VG-99 could do the frequency shifter stuff.  I basically butchered the track and used way too much distortion in front of the ring modulation but there are guys out there actually looking for this patch and I basically told them "sure, I can give it to you but you'll get fired from your funk or top 40 band if you use this on stage." 


My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

musicman65

Alien,

man, that was spot on! Yes, a little more "modern gain" sound but the ring mod stuff was right there. Good job! If that tune had been done a decade later, I suspect JM's tone might have resembled your take even more.

bd



mostlyjazzer

Man! Alien, I'm impressed.
Now if you can just get that ebook out on how to tweak the VG.
I guess, I should read more on "how synth work" and other related subjects to clarify thinking on this cause, I don't have it down yet.
When I hear these examples, it validates my holding on to my VG.
I got the Gr-55 as well and like it too. But as a more studio stationary module, I should get it down and give it the time it deserves.
I feel there's truckload of gear out there that could be used
to truly expand the sonic palette of anyone who gives the time to dig down into it.

This would be a good question to ask.
"How did your learning and applying sound technologies benefit you in any and all aspects?"
The coffee talk sesssion is open"
Discuss...lol :)

I truly delight in everyone's exploration of this.


MJ

aliensporebomb

The eBook will happen but there are days I swear I know nothing about the VG - I was working on the frequency shifter patch (God only knows why, kind of a waste of time - it's a 38 year old album after all).

I had it as a patch on A and using expression pedal A let you fade out the ring modulation and it wont completely work as I had envisioned; I wanted to be able to have clean/dirty/shifted guitar on A with delay activated by footswitch but I didn't quite get there.

As far as technology goes its just pure fun to consider "what would this sound like combined?" Or "have I ever mixed this together?"

A website I visited claimed that a Roland rep indicated the VG-99 has over 4000 different parameters.  This gives it a super wide audio palette.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

rolandvg99

Great demo, Todd.

I just tried something similar the other day using Input Level to control the ringmod frequency shift. One of my findings is that the easiest way to learn anything sound related is to tweak everything to the extreme to "see" what it sounds like. There is loads of fun to be had with the VG when one automate parameters. Leave nothing untried.

:)
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

aliensporebomb

OK I've got this patch sorted now:

FC-300 CTL 1 controls the delay for the intro.
Pedal 1 back is ringmod off, Pedal 1 full on is full ring mod

Optionally pedal 1 can be used to change the frequency of the ringmod but it's totally psychotic - just change control assign 1 for pedal 1 to (A) FX: MOD1 RING MOD: FREQ.  It will still allow fading in of the ringmod level too if you do
that, otherwise the patch defaults to just having pedal A fade the ring mod in and out.

Pedal 2 back is regular guitar volume, Pedal 2 full on is full regular guitar with a bit of distortion.

I probably won't work on this patch any longer since it was just an exercise in making this box make some horrific noises straight from the 1970s. 

In the new MP3 attached (warning: not musical at all, almost pure noise) I actually added some guitar along with the ringmod so you can picture what I was doing on the guitar at the time of the ringmod insanity. 

I then faded the ringmod out and had the regular guitar sound going alongside the delay, then removed the delay and went to regular guitar, then back to ringmod. 

At the end the super fast runs of ringmod notes are just legato notes that sound like a computer barfing high speed data transmissions at 1:44.

This patch is totally useless for trying to play music in a band but to understand how to make the VG screech like a demon, well, it's kind of interesting.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.