Roland GA-212 Stereo Amp

Started by BenT, March 22, 2012, 02:30:56 PM

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BenT

There are several new demos on Roland's Channel on YouTube about the amps where are quite impressive:




--------------------
Benjamin Robert Tubb
Using the VG-8EX, GR-1EX and VG-99
with FC-300, GR-1EX, GI-10, US-20.
Main guitar: Carvin DC-400 with GK-2A pickup

mbenigni

"smart channel instant memory feature" ... It's about time! I've been harassing line 6 and native instruments for this feature for years. Send royalties to... ;)

papabuss

#2
FENDER STRATOCASTER (1974); BRIAN MAY RED SPECIAL; VG 99; GR 55; Yamaha DX 7

Music was my first love and it will be my last (JOHN MILES)

aliensporebomb

Kind of a super JC-120 with modeling?  Interesting.  But it looks much smaller than a JC-120. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

mbenigni

#4
Musicians Friend has another one of the Roland GA amps as their Stupid Deal of the Day today.  I never heard one in person, but I was actually really impressed with the demos when they first came out.  As usual, I have no real need for another amp, but I'm tempted.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid/?src=3TP3DRR&noPopup=true

My favorite thing about this line of amps was this extremely sensible feature, which I'd been trying to talk Line 6 etc. into implementing for years:

Quote•Smart Channel memorizes the current position of knobs in all four channels without programming or savings

A week or 2 ago they had the 2x12 200W model on sale for $399 - a more capable amp for most applications, and an even better deal.

montyrivers

Infinite rotary encoder knobs  ;)

mbenigni

Quote from:  montyrivers on April 03, 2014, 07:08:43 AM
Infinite rotary encoder knobs  ;)

It's more than that - it's the elimination of the need to hunt around for a save button after you tweak a channel setting.

So lets say you're in Verse 1 on channel 1 and everything's sounding just great.  You hit channel 2 for a loud Chorus 1 and your guitar is a little quiet.  You can reach back and goose your volume knob, just as you would have on any amp dating all the way back to the 1950's, and forget all about it.  No need to look for a save button and press it twice or whatever.  You get back to Verse 2 and everything's great because you didn't touch your Master Volume, you get into Chorus 2 and everything is absolutely perfect for the room and the overall level because you just tweaked it, live.

That's the way every programmable amp should have worked since the dawn of programmable amps.  And this is the only one that does.

Shame that it also happens to be a programmable amp with no effects, since something like a Vetta that could be tweaked this easily on the fly would be a godsend.

Elantric

If you shop around you could get a Cube 80XL for $300 and own a superior Amp with far more features and built in FX and Looper - all missing on these Roland GA amps IMHO. And the appearance sure looks like a Toyota design studio homage to the 1st gen Line6 Vetta

mbenigni

Quote from:  Elantric on April 03, 2014, 07:21:09 AM
If you shop around you could get a Cube 80XL for $300 and own a superior Amp with far more features and built in FX and Looper - all missing on these Roland GA amps IMHO. And the appearance sure looks like a Toyota design studio homage to the 1st gen Line6 Vetta

I take it you weren't a fan of the single amp model approach of the GA, then?  As I said, I've never heard one, but I am attracted to the simplicity of it.  Of course that all falls apart if it doesn't actually sound good.  I certainly agree with you on the cosmetics - butt ugly, but ignorable if it does the job.

I own a Cube 30XL already.  Great amp, for what it is, but the effects are pretty throw-away IMO.  I didn't know the 80XL had a looper.  I'll have to do some research (again, not that I need another amp...)  I'm assuming, though, that the "Smart Channel" implementation I'm so fond of is unique to the GA line, since the Cube 30 and Cube 60 don't have anything like it.

Elantric

#9
Its important to read the manuals

Roland GA-212  Owners Manual
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62468238/GA-212_GA-112_egfispd03_W.pdf

Roland GA-FC  Owners Manual
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/62468246/GA-FC_je02_W.pdf

Roland Cube 80XL Owners Manual
http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/CUBE-40_80XL_OM.pdf- many "write off" the Roland "Cube Amp" series - because older folks have a fixed idea on what they think a recent Roland Cube amp is, and isnt  - many base their opinion from the old orange Roland Cube 60 from 1979 - when in fact they never read the owners manual, nor played through the latest  models to form an opinion. The sweet spot for features, usability and price is one recently discontinued specific model  - the Cube 80XL.
which has

4 programmable channels

Built in FX that can get you through a gig


External Speaker Out Jack, AC Cord Windup. Its a true grab your guitar and a Cube 80XL and go play Any gig - Its 80 Watts RMS  and I'm never told "Steve  your not loud enough" ;)

http://www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?id=1125949618001

http://www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?id=1125949634001

http://www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?id=1125949648001
footswitch control


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6471.msg44731#msg44731

 

Listen here if you doubt the Cube80XL's capabilities



Read here for details on why the older 2012 Roland Cube 80X is superior to the latest version
New Roland Cube GX Amps (Compare to old Cube 80 XL)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8931.0

mbenigni

Interesting.  Thanks, Steve.

Ed_Saxman

#11
Quote from:  Elantric on April 04, 2014, 05:01:49 PM
mbenigni wrote>
Elantric replied
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3207.msg80062#msg80062
IMHO the Cube 80XL is a superior Amp with all the sonic performance and far more features (like built in FX and Looper ) than any Roland GA amp. 
And who needs a 200 watt GA212 Mono Modeling Amp? I would have far more interest if these Roland GA amps were stereo.

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1219/specs/

http://www.musikmachen.de/Tests/Roland-GA-112-und-GA-212-Modeling-Combos

Hi!

I think the GA-212 is in fact an stereo amp. Quote from the manual:
Main in Jacks
To output the sound created with a multi-effects unit or other devices, connect to the MAIN IN jacks.
GA-212 plays the A jack input sound from the left speaker, and the B jack input sound from the right speaker. When only the A jack is used, the same sound is played from the right and left speakers. When only the B jack is used, sound is only played from the right speaker.

http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/GA-212_GA-112_OM.pdf

The GA-212 is at a very low price in some stores here in Europe (299€) and I´m very interested, specially given the dual FX loop (parallel or series), and very specially, for the stereo "Main In" jacks.

Also, I don´t think the "200W" rated power output is real. Probably 2x100W...

The cube 80X seems great but... it´s more expensive right now, and the lack of line inputs (other than mini jack) it´s a serious dealbreaker to me.

So... what do you think about the GA-212 to play mostly at home, along with a POD HD500, Boss RC-300, and maybe some external pedals? I´m very tempted to purchase it, given the price.

(btw, I already have a pair of studio monitors (Event ASP6, 200W+80W tweeter)) in my home studio room, but I want a better amp to play in my living room. Actually I´m using a Behringer 15W keyboard amp + Boss micro-BR for effects  ;))

I play mostly clean (jazz, funk, bossa nova)... Do you think the GA-212 can be my poor man´s JC-120?

Elantric

#12
Zero stores anywhere I know have a GA212 in stock for me test - I heard one at NAMM and thought it was way too expensive, and 5 step backwards compared to running two Cube 80 XL's ( I find Cube 80XL's for $250 on Ebay - since these are now discontinued)

If the GA212  is truly a stereo Amp - this in another classic case of Roland's poor inability to communicate their products features, since "Stereo " is not stated anywhere in the specifications.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1219/specs/

mbenigni

QuoteIf the GA212  is truly a stereo Amp - this in another classic case of Roland's poor ability to communicate their products features, since "Stereo ability" is not stated anywhere in the specifications.

Agreed.  If I had known this was a stereo amp I would have bought one back when MF was blowing them out as their "Stupid Deal of the Day."  I've never heard one in person, but I actually liked the design overall, specifically the idea of a single amp model that could deliver a wide range of tones, and (even moreso) the "smart save" feature or whatever they called it, where the amp's 4 channels would save your EQ etc changes immediately while you were performing.  (I.e. no need to go hunting for a save button.)

mbenigni

And straight from the eerily prescient/possibly nosy marketing department... the GA112 is the MF Stupid Deal today.  http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid?src=3TP3DRR&src=3TP3DRR&noPopup=true

$349 with the footswitch.  Last time it came up it was $299 "a la carte", and a week or two later they had the GA212 for $399 if I recall correctly.  The latter is much more tempting - a $200 discount over current street price (and, as mentioned, stereo.)  Let's see if history repeats...

carsonics

#15
Thank you all for the help.  BTW, I did read the manual, PDFs, etc., before asking the question(s).  Sometimes one has to dig deeper for answers that are not in basic manual information.  For example nowhere in all or most of the ads and youtube demos (with the exception of one I found) does it or Roland mention or highlight the fact that the Roland GA-212 amp is capable of stereo output and that there are two inputs for connecting a GT-100 to take advantage of stereo use of two COSM amp preamps etc (though there is a diagram in the manual).  Most if not all demos are examples of plugging a guitar directly into the mono guitar jack and explaining the tonal variations.  I would think that a guitar amp with true stereo input ability would be a big deal especially since Boss multi effects processors can output in stereo and utilize two separate amps to create guitar sound design! Yet this feature is barely mentioned or advertised.  As a matter of fact if I had not come across the one video in my research I would not have known that.  And I was looking for a stereo guitar amp because I like to run my processors in stereo to take advantage of the expanded effects that are not as dimensional in mono.  So for example if you plug your guitar into the guitar input jack on the GA-212 and run the GT-100 through the S/R connections you can use COSM preamps in the GT-100 into the stereo inputs on the GA-212 for panning, using two different COSM amps to build your sound . . . but if you use the 4CM you can not do this!  So there are really 3 options:  direct GT-100 into the amp, running the GT-100 (and using it's preamps for basic tone) through the GA-212 S/Rs (to get stereo or multiple amping), or the 4CM to use your amp for basic guitar tone shaping and putting the GT-100 effects in the proper order before and after the amp preamp (in mono).  This is why I asked the question - the answer is not simple and the options are a little too advanced to be addressed even by the manufacturer.   

carsonics

Has anyone mentioned the Roland GA-212 amp?  It has stereo capability, two inputs on the rear of the amp which can send 100 watts to one speaker and 100 watts to the other in stereo, or 200 watts in mono to both speakers.  It also has multiple effects S/Rs.  All the Boss and Roland processors have stereo outputs so I would think this would be a perfect match for stereo amplification in a single amp. 

Elantric

#17
Since Roland GA-212 and is designed for guitar with typical restricted frequency range Guitar speakers - the GA-212 will be dull sounding for Synths and Acoustic instruments


QuoteThis is why I asked the question - the answer is not simple and the options are a little too advanced to be addressed even by the manufacturer.   


Find more important setup information most of us old timers take for granted  here:
Roland COSM Reference Library
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88.0

Ed_Saxman

#18

I went to the biggest music store in Barcelona to test the GA-212 by myself. I tested the amp for 20 minutes, and then compared with the Cube Street EX and the Cube 80XL.
After playing with the GA-212 for a while, his little brother Cube Street EX sounded awful to me, very sharp and unreal. Maybe this little amp works better with acoustic guitars, or maybe not. In any case, I did not like this amp at all.
About the middle brother 80XL: I think it has an acceptable clean channel, but with a sound somewhat mid-rangy.
Then I reconnected the GA-212 and I had no doubt that it was the best sounding of the three, by far. A much fuller and deeper sound, capable of crystal cleans with total absence of noise as well as more gainy sounds that could put serious strain on most existing valve amplifiers on the market.
And it was the cheapest one! (after a "price beat") (€299 vs. €499 -street EX or €375 -80XL), so it was obvious which one would be my choice.
After all, the most important thing to me when considering an amp is the clean channel sound, and in the case of GA-212, that fantastic pair of stereo line inputs for connecting a digital multi-effects unit was a big plus.

When I got home I plugged my Variax JTV-89 and it sounded amazing, both with the real pickups as modelling. Even the modelled acoustic guitars sounded great! It was amazing to hear how the amp responded to nuances such as the volume knob of the guitar. I cannot wait to hear how it could sound with a semi or hollowbody guitar!

Regarding to the integrated effects in the GA-212 (basically overdrive/distortion and digital reverb) I think they are quite usable, although obviously it´s lacking the deep editing capabilities offered by a digital pedalboard to which I am accustomed. I'm not a big fan of the distortion actually, although I like some things like RAT pedal simulation included in the HD500 for John Scofield type sounds, with relatively low drive to get that distinctive broken sound. I also enjoy the spring-like reverb included, so I can even get close to that Sco sound using the GA-212 alone.

I wish the amp had some more effects like chorus and delay, and would have been absolutely perfect for me, but I guess Roland/Boss will learn the lesson and build a more attractive model in the near future...
...But presumably it will be as expensive as it was the original price of GA-212, so I could not afford it anyway. So I can be more than satisfied with what the current model is offering me, especially considering the price paid.

But the best part came when I connected the POD HD500 to the line inputs of the GA-212 and compared it to the sound of my studio monitors (a pair of 200W Event ASP Studio Precission monitors). Incredibly, the guitar sounded much better thru the amp than in my studio monitors! I was absolutely delighted with the result, much better than I ever would have expected!
I do not even found it necessary to remove the cabs of the amps models in the HD500. It sounded fantastic anyway.

Finally, I also connected my ipad to the line inputs to see how well the amplifier work with full-range music. Obviously in this regard is not comparable to a FRFR monitor, because it has no tweeters, but still, the music sounded reasonably well. I think the GA-212 probably has a higher upper range than a standard guitar amplifier, maybe around 9-10Khz.

About the tonal range, roland emphasizes its versatility:


In conclusion, I think the Roland GA-212 is a wonderful amp, virtually unbeatable if you like solid state amplifiers with crystal clear sound, if you want to connect your digital pedalboard, and above all: if you can buy at the price which can be found in some stores (€299 - $399 USD). It is a real bargain!

Finally I have found an affordable alternative to the much acclaimed (but somewhat overpriced) Roland JC-120. And in some ways, I think the GA-212 is an even better option for some folks like me.

As the only negative factors I would emphasize the weight and size of the amplifier, but fortunately it has side handles and also includes wheels. Personally I'm going to use it in the studio or in my living room, so this was not a problem for me when considering buying it. What I value most is the sound quality and connectivity, and in this regard I cannot be more pleased.
I love this thing! To my ear it sounds as good as any tube amp I ever played if not better.

I think the GA-212 is a product that has undoubtedly had a very poor marketing by Roland, this is the reason why it has become a very misunderstood amp.
With better explanatory effort from Roland, and a more reasonable starting price, I think this amp could have been a real bestseller, at least for certain types of customers.

To read more:
Purist Tone, Digital Versatility
The Arrival of The Digital Guitar Amp
How Wide is the GA Amp's Tonal Spectrum?
GA Amp Roundtable

Elantric

#19
Thanks for the review
QuoteI think the GA-212 probably has a higher upper range than a standard guitar amplifier, maybe around 9-10Khz.

This matches the Roland Cube 80XL upper freq response.

In USA - the GA-212 typically sells for $699-$899 on sale, and perhaps due to poor marketing and lack of communication by Roland anywhere that the GA-212 was a Stereo Amp - I understand the GA-212 sold miserably and is now discontinued.




https://www.google.com/shopping/product/7682254753804436981?q=GA-212&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS441US441&espv=2&biw=1472&bih=869&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.75097201,d.cGE,pv.xjs.s.en_US.vwsQ5GX-QL0.O&ion=1&tch=1&ech=1&psi=8AgXVKKmE8rGiwKVmYHQBg.1410795760646.5&ei=9QgXVJedL6aKjAKpzoCADw&ved=0COIBEKYrMAY

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/851492-REG/Roland_GA_212_GA_212_Guitar_Amplifier.html

Quoteif you can buy at the price which can be found in some stores (€299 - $399 USD). It is a real bargain!
Typically in USA we only see the GA-212 under $400 on rare occasions  - like the one day MusiciansFriend "Stupid Deal of the Day" sales.
Typical price today is $799 for Roland GA-212 with footcontroller:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/roland-ga-212-2x12-200w-guitar-combo-amplifier-w-footswitch


Myself - I have a Line6 Vetta Combo that already does everything the GA-212 does ( and More)
I'm reminded I purchased my Traynor K4 300 watt Stereo amp For $725, and that reproduces full range audio up to 20kHz, and has a built in 4 channel mixer   


There are used "Customer return" GA-212's on Ebay  - here's one for $425- but many have no warranty
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-GA-212-Combo-Guitar-Amplifier-0291-/351139828975?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51c19094ef

Alec Lee

I played through one of these at Guitar Workshop Plus last year.  They had these as well as the 1x12 model as the house backline for all performances.  IME, they sounded good and were more than loud enough for ensemble work.  Cleans are good, it has more than enough gain on tap, and it cleans up well as you roll off the volume.

I seriously thought about buying one but opted for a Blackstar ID60 instead.  The amp sounds are comparable between the two but I wanted the ID60s onboard effects.  If I was running a stompbox-based rig, I'd probably go for the Roland instead.

I don't think that the speakers have sufficient high frequency response to be used to effectively amplify a synth/modeling rig.

Ed_Saxman

#21
Quote from: Alec Lee on September 15, 2014, 06:03:01 PM
I don't think that the speakers have sufficient high frequency response to be used to effectively amplify a synth/modeling rig.
Today I had the idea of measuring the frequency response of the GA-212 using a white noise generator and a spectrum analyser app (spectrum view). It seems to have a wider range than I initially estimated.


Quote from: Elantric on September 15, 2014, 08:46:21 AM
In USA - the GA-212 typically sells for $699-$899, and perhaps due to poor marketing and lack of communication by Roland anywhere that the GA-212 was a Stereo Amp - I understand the GA-212 sold miserably and is now discontinued.
Typically in USA we only see the GA-212 under $400 on rare occasions  - like the one day MusiciansFriend "Stupid Deal of the Day" sales. Typical price today is $799 for Roland GA-212 with footcontroller
Here in Europe you can find it at the price of 299€ in some German online shops. However, there is a shop in Barcelona that can match the prices of competitors (they call it "price beat"). The current price is €554 ($717 USD), which is about average in most stores right now, but they matched the price of the German store (so I could happily take my new toy home)
When I went to the store to test the amp were only two units available, one for demonstrations and another that was still sealed, which I bought.

Obviously, the GA-212 and GA-112 amps are being discontinued due to poor sales (initial prices were too high, the 212 was listed at $1559, around $1000 street price) and worst marketing, but it seems that Roland is removing the stock gradually, without haste. For that reason I think offers like "stupid deal of the day" in big stores may still happen in the USA in the coming weeks/months.

Personally, after testing it I thought it was such a good deal I could not pass up. And I'm so glad I did! It's a lot of amp for the money: 200W for massive clean headroom, two effects loops, stereo line ins, gorgeous sound and built like a tank!

mbenigni

QuoteMyself - I have a Line6 Vetta Combo that already does everything the GA-212 does ( and More)

I have a Vetta II Head, and yes it does much more than the GA-212 will do.  But I'm attracted to the GA-212 in the same "limitations as strengths" way that you're attracted to the GP-10.  I love the idea of an amp whose simple gain and EQ controls can (theoretically) achieve all of the base tones I might need, without any programming, without even committing to an amp model selection.  And the idea of tweaking settings on the fly, while switching between channels, without worrying about saving...  It seems like a lot of distractions have been removed from the equation.

Not sure why this amp did so badly.  It seemed like Roland pushed it for all of a week, and a quiet week at that.  Maybe the pricing was unrealistic.  Or maybe it was just too... orange.

Elantric

#23
QuoteIt seemed like Roland pushed it for all of a week, and a quiet week at that.  Maybe the pricing was unrealistic.  Or maybe it was just too... orange.

Yes - All the above and the glaring screw up of Roland hiding the fact the GA-212 is in fact a stereo amp played a huge role in the GA-212 failure.

At NAMM show release I was told the GA-212 would be selling for $1200. Frankly Id rather have my pair of Cube 80 XLs ( which I paid under $300 each) and have an easier rig to transport and far more FX options on board. 

Or (better still) my pair of Alesis Alpha 112A (Alto TS112A clones) which I purchased for $179 each - and these have 1000watts and work better for acoustic instruments and Guitar synth  reproduction. These demand a much wider  / flat frequency response than any Guitar amp - including Cube 80XL and GA-212     

Ed_Saxman

Quote from:  Elantric
Your plot suggests the speakers were not being measured with a calibrated test mic  - but rather you measured from the line out?

What I have done is to connect the ipad stereo out to the line ins of the GA-212 using a "Y" cable (stereo mini jack to dual mono 1/4") to generate the white noise (using a HTML5 generator - playnoise.com).
Then I used the free IOS app "spectrum view" to measure the noise using the ipad integrated microphone   ;D

Given the resources used, we can assume that my measurement is not very accurate but I have only one SM58 and a C519 (these are the mics that I use with my saxophone). You think they might be better for this purpose? As you can see, I do not have much idea about this kind of thing. Just trying to check roughly the frequency range of the amp, as roland does not release that information.