VG99 Ignored by Roland ?

Started by 2pods, April 02, 2009, 08:17:30 AM

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2pods

I've just had my copy of "Power On" (Roland free news magazine) delivered as well as receiving my monthly Roland newsletter via email, and once again there is no mention of the VG99.

Is Roland ashamed of it, or what ?

They hardly ever mention the VG99, or any of the current midi guitar products they sell.
No wonder people think all this stuff is a "niche" product.  >:(

Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay

carlb

All I can guess is that Roland and Boss have two separate marketing groups. Boss has always been guitar heavy, while Roland has been more toward keyboards.

Why they ever put the guitar modeling stuff in the 'Roland' product line-up is a mystery to me. All I can think of is some inter-marketing power play with the poor Boss group losing out. And since then the top-line modelers have always been in the Roland group.

The engineers who develop this stuff are obviously the same guys for both product lines. The GT-10 and the VG-99 are so close in their approach and algorithms that they must have been developed by the same engineering team, responding to different marketing group inputs toward form-factor and product focus.

I also wonder if the VG-99 is not much of a profit maker. It may be that they realize they have to keep the price very low to get any type of market for it, yet the cost to build is nearly what they can sell it for. In which case, it's difficult for a marketing team to stay focused on that product line.

They're probably pushing the engineers for much cheaper to build version of the VG series. But that also includes a looper built in, but with a bit better integration of the looper than the GT-10 managed. That probably has the design team looking very close at next gen DSPs, processors, ASICS, etc. And giving the marketing guys cost figures still turning faces sour.

So, until that new VG-XX finally comes out, my bet is that we see the flagship VG-99 keeping a low-key profile in Roland's line up. 

All speculation mind you, but based upon a too-intimate knowledge of electronic/software system development.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Rhcole

Bottom line- Does anybody know how well they are selling?

ignitor

Dudes!

Us all here know that VG99 is the most advanced system in the planet! If u have it u don't need anything else... I have a loooong life in guitar playing behind me and I can honestly say my search for the SOUND is over... It is like introducing a car that runs on water...

BUT! Most of the guitarists are really conservative and not into revolutionary new concepts... Even the sustainiac which was invented in 89 is still used by all top guitarist but by very few Pro/amateur guitarists... Sustainaic should be a standard feature in any guitar... BTW it works VERy well with VG99...

In my opinion we should be happy that the VG99 is out as it could be seen as threat to the boss/roland pedal market... I hope they will improve it by adding exotic and "new" instruments to it.

It will be a looong time before VG99 is a main stream thing. So let's hope there is enough of us progressive people to keep them on updating it!

I think this group is really cool as there are a lot topics that actually interest me. This is the only user group I'm following on internet :)

Long live VG99!

porieux

At this point I would be happy if they would at least just fix/improve the computer software for the thing.

2pods

Yup, still waiting for better acoustic noises  :)
Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay

A2theT

Quote from: porieux on April 03, 2009, 05:48:46 AM
At this point I would be happy if they would at least just fix/improve the computer software for the thing.

The librarian is definitely something to be ashamed of but the Editor rocks in my mind!
I own digitech and line6 gear and the vg-99 editor is WAYYYYYYY better.

What improvements would you like to see?  The one thing I would like to see is all the modules tiled/stitched together so you can see them all at once.    I just wish it had a dozen more models in each department. I'd like to see a few more amps (Laney,Carvin,5150,Mesas) and some classic pedals like the ADA Flanger.  As far as stringed instruments go, how about a contrabass?  It would be cool if they could model some pickups like PAF Pro, Pearly Gates, etc...
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

dramelot

Yeah it seems they havent put any time into making it better. My Fractal AXFX is hard to keep up with the updates and its only a few guys doing it making leaps on sound quality and features every time. i just wonder if the 99 is maxxed out already. i still like my 99 and gr33 though. But it could be alot better. Especially the acoustic hiss.
What like 1 update in 2 years and it was mainly a patch for RMC pickups right after release, that i did appreciate.

A2theT

What is your opinion on the AXEFX?  Is it really worth the money considering what you can buy feature-wise for less?
If I was a millionaire it would be a no brainer.  I'd buy everything as collecting MFX processors would be lots of fun.
In my mind if I had to only own one unit it would probably be the VG-99.


Quote from: dramelot on April 05, 2009, 02:24:37 PM
Yeah it seems they havent put any time into making it better. My Fractal AXFX is hard to keep up with the updates and its only a few guys doing it making leaps on sound quality and features every time. i just wonder if the 99 is maxxed out already. i still like my 99 and gr33 though. But it could be alot better. Especially the acoustic hiss.
What like 1 update in 2 years and it was mainly a patch for RMC pickups right after release, that i did appreciate.

HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

Elantric


clearlight

i hope its not "maxed out" as someone previously said.

its been my opinion that they could do way more with the technology onboard this thing.

they could ofer model packs ala' line 6
i would totally consider paying a lttle extra for more functionality and I don't think i'm alone in that respect.

a true dream come true would be some sort of software development kit that 3rd parties could use to develp things....

My Music
My Band Website
GUITARS: 2x RG1521, 3x RG321 w/gk, Rg721 Fretless Modified, AmStd FatStrat w/gk, various others....
XV5050,Triton etc..
KOMPLETE 7
VGUITAR Stuff: VG99, FC300, RC5-

2pods

I think the model packs were already in the XTLive and just had to be unlocked.

I'm not that familiar with the internal hardware specs of the VG99, but it may be that there is not enough "grunt" either from the processors, or it's internal ram to do anything along the lines of Line6 while still doing what it normally does.

I hope not, as I think it could be really good  :)
Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay

LeeMorant

Well i'm dissapointed with the support of x64 amongst other things such as no reasonably decent amplification system for live use(drummers and keyboards get them though), I have been Roland oriented since I cant remember when.  This is the last piece of kit I will buy from them however, their mentality is just so infuriating, lets just bring out a new box every few years for 700 notes and bollox to em once they've bought it.  They get good customer feedback (from sites like this) about what is really wanted and it will all be on the new version in 18 months time bar a few bits to keep you wanting the next box after that.

dramelot

#13
Yeah, what Lee said... I agree,
My progression... GR1, GR33, (2)GR- 300's, VG88, Mesh Drum set w/TD10, VG99.
You know i never regret buying any of them, even though support sucks they are all still usefull and working.
AND THEY ARE BUILT LIKE TANKS except the 99 that already has some dents
By the way the gr300  emulation in the 99 is crap compared to the real thing. Was hoping to retire the 300's, but nope aint happenin,
I'm glad i took the time to convert them to GK interface, nothing like it for Metheny stuff.

I absolutely love my Ultra AXFX, for straight no nonsense guitar tones in a processor it is the king. (I own alot of line6 gear also, cant bear to give it away so I never sell anything). 
But you have to tweak it. You can add nonsense to it really easily to over do it.
It is really all that, I have never gotten a tone out of any of my digital gear that i was 100 percent happy with, but with the AXFX, its closer to my ideals than ever before. It almost sounds real...LOL

You know whats fun, plugging in and having them all at my command at the same time :D

www.duaneramelot.com

aliensporebomb

Speaking as a guy who intends on buying a VG99 my local guitar center has a big display for the thing right near
the entrance of the store with a little kiosk with the demo and little pushable buttons on a display screen so you
can see what it can do.

It's set-up with a Brian Moore guitar so you can listen to the thing in stereo, privately, and they have the
footswitch right there so you can go nuts basically and nobody ever bothers me when I'm working on it although
when I'm done they' query "what do you think?"

I think the average "Joe Guitarist" or "teenage kid guitarist" doesn't maybe know what it is but anyone who's
been around will have an idea.

I really want one of them bad but will likely have to wait until summer.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

germanicus

Im blown away by the vg99 everytime i sit down to screw around with it. I started years ago with a roland gr30, then a gr33 and yamaha g50, then got into variaxes (still use them) and pod xt's and x3, and now the vg99. The thing is at some point you have to stop tweaking and actually make music with the stuff (something im extremely guilty of, I have dozens of tunes all like 90% finished). I dont really find myself wanting more with the 99 except one arena, that of its acoustic modelling, line 6 has roland licked in this capacity. However the feature set in the 99 is lightyears beyond what i expected honestly.

One aspect Im really pleased with is how I can run a laptop live with the 99, with just one USB cable, and drive softsynths and vsts, and then output back through the same usb to the 99 again and use the 99's direct outs for everything. My laptop is acting as a virtual expansion unit in this regard. VG99 driving a few instances of M-Tron (mellotron sampler/library vst plugin) is mind blowing.

Next step is seeing if the newer netbooks can handle running a vst wrapper and possibly mounting it right under the 99 on my pds stand.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

A2theT

#16
OMG, germanicus are you kidding me?  I have my hp tablet laptop loaded up with softsynths and struggling with the onboard audio card.  I've been using ASIO4ALL but it still isn't cutting it and there's latency with my keyboard.  Been trying to find a compact USB audio device for it like the Behringer one.  I had no idea I could use the VG and route the audio out its direct outs to my P.A.  I will explore this on the weekend! 

Fantastic news if its going to work for me.  I have a dual keyboard stand set up right now with the keyboard on the bottom tier and the laptop and VG on the top tier.

BTW, before I bought my HP tx2500 tablet I bought an Acer Aspire netbook because it was a great deal onsale locally at $299 canadian.  What a phenominal little unit.  I really loved it but the CPU was at 99% with M-Tron and the Oberheim OP-X which is a softsynth I love because the old school van halen, rush, bon jovi sounds are so wicked.....
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

Elantric

#17
The VG-99 IS a ASIO USB Sound Card. If trying to configure a VG-99 rig like germanicus -  install the VG99 audio driver  = set the VG-99 driver to Advanced Mode, and run a decent host DAW/ VST host application ( Reaper, Ableton, Console, etc.) and set its Audio Hardware I/O Preferences to VG-99 - and no other sound card.

Avoid using ASIO4ALL and trying to run different Audio I/O devices at once. (on Windows)


Read more about the VG-99 ASIO Audio Driver here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,48.0.html

A2theT

#18
Hey sustainiac thanks for the help but I can assure you that without ASIO4ALL encapsulating my realtek audio drivers built into the laptop its otherwise useless.  I keep them wrapped even when playing mp3s through winamp.  :D   I have been using my VG-99 as an ASIO sound device for recording into Sonar and Sound Forge since day one.  I just never thought it could be integrated into my live rig whereby I'm able to route the audio out the direct outs while simultaneously playing guitar through it too.  Can't wait to try this. 

As a side note, I use a program called Forte Ensemble Live Performance Workstation by Brainspawn to queue all my synths and set lists.  Its awesome. Much better than loading up a crashable vsti host like sonar or cubase.  Changing patches on the VG-99 is supposed to send the song/patch change in the setlist but I have yet to configure it. Still doing it manually.  Anyway, heres a screenshot
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

germanicus

Quote from: sustainiac on April 23, 2009, 10:27:39 PM
The VG-99 IS a ASIO USB Sound Card. If trying to configure a VG-99 rig like germanicus -  install the VG99 audio driver  = set the VG-99 driver to Advanced Mode, and run a decent host DAW/ VST host application ( Reaper, Ableton, Console, etc.) and set its Audio Hardware I/O Preferences to VG-99 - and no other sound card.

Avoid using ASIO4ALL and trying to run different Audio I/O devices at once.


Read more about the VG-99 ASIO Audio Driver here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,48.0.html

Im running a dell inspiron 1520 with Vista, 2 gigs ram, and a dual core processor. Using sonar producer edition, using the vg99 control driver (not sure how it differs from the vg99 midi driver - both are available in sonar). I also only activate the input, not the output, as sometimes sonar sends messages to the 99 and somehow mutes patches. Simply not using the 99 as a midi out from sonar solved this.

Im sure its better to do it with a vst host shell/wrapper like VST Host, something that uses less overhead than sonar, but I have no trouble running multiple M-Trons live with a few reverbs to soften the sound.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

Elantric

So the M-Tron Audio Output comes from ?

A) the VG-99?


or

B) The Laptop HEadphone Jack ( ouch)


or

C) a third Party Audio Interface


??

germanicus

A) the Vg-99.

M-tron is a VSTi running inside of Sonar. The audio is output from the 99 to my k4.
The Midi problem i was experiencing was on my home workstation while recording midi directly into vg99. That system uses a delta 1010 and doesnt use the audio drivers of the 99, only the midi driver. On my laptop I found that sonar didnt want to work both with the vg99 audio driver and another interface's (Presonus Firepod which I use to track band rehearsals) audio driver simultaneously. So for performances when not recording,  I just use the laptop's vg99 control driver.
The vg99 sends (via USB) converted midi to the laptop (sonar) which is running M-trons, which subsequently output their audio back through the USB cable to the 99's outputs.

Ive seen folks talking about the desire for expansion for the 99, and essentially you have this capability already in the unit to send the midi (or audio) to a laptop for additional processing/synthesis.

I've only used the midi, havent tried to process the 99's modelling audio signal in real time for live performance (with something like Guitar Rig 3 or Waves GTR), but I imagine its possible.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

germanicus

#22
Spurred by this thread I just tried the 99 on my home workstation checking out the USB and audio reamping performance. I disabled my delta 1010 drivers in sonar, put it in asio driver mode, and opened the vg99 asio driver settings control panel to increase the audio buffer.
I turned off Direct Monitoring in the VG99 itself under System>USB so I only heard audio being sent into the 99 from the USB cable.

It works pretty well. I was able to load Amplitube 2 in sonar using "Stereo Roland VG-99 IN L" as the input source, and "Roland VG-99 OUT L" as the output. Sonar reports an effective latency of 4.4 msecs when the VG99 Driver Settings Applet is set to the 4th notch from the left under Audio Buffer Size. I also have "Use Smaller ASIO buffer Size" checked, as well as ASIO Direct Monitor and MIDI IN "light load" checked.

When using the third notch from the left in the Audio Buffer Size window, I got alot of breakup.
4.4 msecs is very useable for live applications Live.

Amplitube 2 sounds great with this, im able to use the COSM guitar Modelling (and alternate tunings) in the 99 and the Amp Modelling in Amplitube 2 to get amazing sounds all sent OUT through the main outputs of the vg99. Think of the laptop as an expansion board that has a universal language (VST) that third party's use to code instruments and effects for. There are many options. Amplitube, Waves GTR, Guitar Rig 3, hell even the new line 6 Pod Farm (software based x3) all have some very nice amp and effect modelling.

This is really cool because if you think for a moment this opens crazy possibilities. You can actually define from which portion of the 99's signal chain you want to send the signal from over the USB. If you send it right after say COSM A, then you actually can use completely different amp modelling and effects simultaneously in the 99 (by reactivating the 99's direct monitoring), and use completely different amps and effects in your software, route that back into the 99, and you have another complete layer of modelling. Its the ultimate 'expansion' for the 99. Use whatever software guitar modeller you want. My head is spinning now.

Heres a question, how many vg99 users out there even know you can do this stuff with it? I doubt many do, and im sure those who dont own a vg99 do either, but i think this type of thing is really the future of guitar-dom. Live performance hardware that can run third party modelling software. The vg99 does this in an indirect capacity. I cant think of another unit/setup that is as powerful. As netbooks (check them out if you arent familiar) become more powerful and smaller, it will be pretty damn easy to have on stage with you. In fact many of the current netbooks could be mounted under the vg99 on the pds stand. Solid state hardrives runing win xp running VST host software connected to a vg99. Sheesh



My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

arrgrr

And then there are things like these on the horizon:

http://www.smproaudio.com/english/products/v-machines/v-pedal.html

the non-guitar version is out now.

this thing has two inputs so i can imagine one could load it up with  NI´s Guitar Rig or Amplitube and connect each COSM guitar to one input. One could even load it with synths and play them via VG99´s MIDI out! I think this would be great for live purposes. I have been using the VG99 first and foremost as an guitar processor and using my computer for the amp modelling as I think it is really the VG´s weak spot. I haven´t been using the VG as my audiointerface, I have been using the SPDIF into my other interface (a MOTU) thet gets me lower latency on my mac.

arrgrr

Elantric

#24
I've been mentioning this ability of the VG-99  ( to use external VSTi, VST, AU FX - via the USB Audio path) ever since this forum began.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,831.0.html

I'm currently running a Gibson Dark Fire + its RIP Firewire interface (a souped up 8 in. 2 out  - firewire Audio interface from Echo Audio Corp.)

Signal flow is:

Dark Fire with 6 channel Piezo bridge > onboard analog muliiplexer >TRS cable> RIP TRS Input > Analog Demultiplexer > which extracts 6 analog channels (one per string).

These are sent to :

* the RIP "Hex Out" connector  - with zero latency- where a passive adapter cable interfaces to the Roland 13 pin GK standard - to feed VG-99's 13 pin  GK Input.

and 

*  8 channels of 24 bit AKM  A/D conversion which feeds a TI Firewire Audio processor> Firewire> Macbook Pro > running 6 instances of NI Guitar Rig ( one per string) as VST plugins in Ableton Live.


It boggles the mind.