GR-55 - U2's Shimmer on With or Without You

Started by Practus, October 02, 2013, 11:52:22 AM

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Practus

Hello everyone,

Sometime ago I saw a little video in Youtube with the Shimmer sound used by The Edge in With or Without You and a couple of other U2 songs, but made with our beloved GR-55, and it actually sounded better than the Octoverb effect from HD500, or Verbzilla, in my opinion. That being said, I'm trying to emulate this effect since then, with no luck at all. Check it out:


Can someone from here help me creating this patch? Even any rough idea would be fine...

Thanks a lot!!
Red Ibanez RG150 (with GK-3 and Fernandes Sustainer FSK-101)
Honey Burst Epiphone LP Standard
Black Fender Standard Strat "a la Blackie"
POD HD500
GR-55
FRFR KRK Rokit 5 Monitors

Elantric

#1
QuoteEven any rough idea would be fine...

Not free - but I insert a Zoom MSR-70CDR between GR-55 Output and amp to get those sounds.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9179.msg66232#msg66232



My Digitech EX-7 Expression Factory also has a SpaceStation XP300 emulator, and that gets in the Daniel Lanois / U2  / Brian Eno ShimmerVerb ballpark too. that can get patched at the GR-55 Output too.



Go to the 1:12minute mark on Digitech Expression Factory demo below to hear "XP300 Synth Swell":


If its for a recording - many like the Valhala Shimmer VST plugin.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/834140-valhalla-shimmer-awesome.html

Elantric

QuoteSometime ago I saw a little video in Youtube with the Shimmer sound used by The Edge in With or Without You and a couple of other U2 songs, but made with our beloved GR-55,


Post the YouTube Video Demo you saw this demonstrated


Its possible the person who uploaded that GR-55 video that inspired you is already a member here and perhaps he could share incite on the GR-55 patch creation strategy or the actual GR-55 patch

Practus

Elantric,

Good ideas for external source, but my rig has too many toys already. Ideally, it would be best to emulate the shimmer as the guy from the video did. I've posted the video on my first post already, hoping that if the guy from the video is a member, he could probably shed some light on how he did that.

Actually, I've asked him in his youtube channel, but I couldn't emulate the patch with only the information he gave in his answer... Check my question and his answer:

Q: Hi? there... Excellent sound indeed... Can you explain how did you do to get this shimmery sound on the GR-55? Is it a kind of reverb, such on the HD500 (Octoverb), or is it severel fxes together? I'm getting a GR-55 myself and would like very much to get the same sound. Regards...

A: hi there,

no, it's not a reverb, and to tell the truth i found very ridiculous the "octoverb solution" both in? the HD500 and the M13 (and of course, also in verbzilla).

you have to set up a soundscapes like sound (maybe i take a look to my patch to suggest you the right sound i used), so a sort of "space sound", one or two octave up...and mixing with the normal guitar sound...it's just a shimmer better than the real shimmer ;-) (of course, in my opinion)


I couldn't understand exactly what he meant by "soundscapes-like sound" or "space sound"...

One alternative would be using the Octoverb from the HD500, but given that sending Dry COSM guitar via Guitar Output sends also a bunch of noise, I thought I could use some PCMs changing their pitch one octave or two to do the trick...
Red Ibanez RG150 (with GK-3 and Fernandes Sustainer FSK-101)
Honey Burst Epiphone LP Standard
Black Fender Standard Strat "a la Blackie"
POD HD500
GR-55
FRFR KRK Rokit 5 Monitors

Practus

#4
I wish...lol

I've searched this forum already, and I could find a couple of shimmery patches on the VG-99 section. I've opened them in the VG-99 editor, but I'm having a hard time converting them to GR-55, given that the parameters on the VG-99 are a bit different from the ones in GR-55... Anyway, here are the patches for the VG-99 if anyone gets curious...

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1799.msg34721#msg34721

The file VoxyValhalla mp3 is an example of the sound from the patch with the same name for VG-99
Red Ibanez RG150 (with GK-3 and Fernandes Sustainer FSK-101)
Honey Burst Epiphone LP Standard
Black Fender Standard Strat "a la Blackie"
POD HD500
GR-55
FRFR KRK Rokit 5 Monitors

Bill Ruppert

This is an old video of EHX shimmer but still sounds good to me..


aliensporebomb

#6
Bill:  I love that piece you use to demonstrate that. 
I also loved your VG-99 version of that sound - I can think of a way you may have achieved it but I haven't bothered trying it yet.  Great video.

Practus:  Actually, my "Voxy Valhalla" patch is more of a simulation of the type of reverb effects as heard on Vangelis' "Beauborg" release but on guitar. 

My take on the U2 Shimmer sound is here:


My version:
It's two parallel signal paths - you need the parallel paths to accomplish this:
Path A: Classic Strat, Compression, Stereo Chorus, Delay, and Plate reverb in that order.  A pretty simple sound to achieve.
Path B: Classic Strat, Compression, Pitch Shift (using Mod 1), 2x2 Chorus (using Mod2), Modulated Delay, Hall Reverb

Channel B has the guitar shifted two octaves (using the polyphonic pitch transposer) above standard pitch - this is the key to a smoother pitch transposition.
At the very end of both A-B I'm using the global reverb for a plate effect.

In Path B the achilles heel is using the Mod1 pitch shift because it's so coarse by comparison to the polyphonic pitch shift.  I prefer the poly pitch shift for every harmonization task because it's so smooth.  In the actual U2 situation they were using parallel paths and in the effects path harmonizing the reverb effect causing that cool shimmer sound. 

In the VG-99 I'm using chorusing and modulation to obscure and smooth the relatively coarse pitch transposition in the MOD1 unit of the FX B path.  But, now that I've rethought it I can think of a way to sidechain a clean sound off FX A and use B to smoothly transpose the reverb.  I think. 

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Practus

Hey Aliensporebomb... Thanks for stoping by to explain how you've managed to get your take on Shimmer with the VG-99... very clever use of the parallel paths..

I'll try to implement this on the GR-55... Given that GR doesn't have the same flexibility of working with dual paths as the VG has, I tought of using some PCM sounds shifted a couple of octaves up to do the trick... The main thing here is chosing the best PCM among all of them...lol

But thinking outside the box and trying to replicate the sound only with the fxes could be a solution...

Too bad the guy from the video I've posted at the beggining of this thread disappeared....lol
Red Ibanez RG150 (with GK-3 and Fernandes Sustainer FSK-101)
Honey Burst Epiphone LP Standard
Black Fender Standard Strat "a la Blackie"
POD HD500
GR-55
FRFR KRK Rokit 5 Monitors

uglybassplayer

Quote from: Practus on October 02, 2013, 01:14:29 PM
A: hi there,

no, it's not a reverb, and to tell the truth i found very ridiculous the "octoverb solution" both in? the HD500 and the M13 (and of course, also in verbzilla).

you have to set up a soundscapes like sound (maybe i take a look to my patch to suggest you the right sound i used), so a sort of "space sound", one or two octave up...and mixing with the normal guitar sound...it's just a shimmer better than the real shimmer ;-) (of course, in my opinion)[/i]

I couldn't understand exactly what he meant by "soundscapes-like sound" or "space sound"...

The question you should really ask him is:  What tone(s) is he using for PCM1 and PCM2 on the GR-55.   It sounds like he's using one (or two) of the tones from the "Synth Pad/Strings" tones (Tone # range 609 through 692).  That's most likely what he means by "soundscapes/space sound"

Here's a list of all the PCM tones available on the GR-55
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/derivates/25/001/585/522/DV040_PDF_Copy_roland_GR-55_PCM_Tone_List_H70990.pdf

Frank.




Practus

#9
Yes... Probably he is using one or even both PCMs from somewhere in that range. I guess I need to sit down with the GR-55 and cover all PCMs from that range to see if I find one that resembles that tone from the video. Now if only GR-55 had a "patch edit mode" (moving the phrase loop position to the beggining of path so that we could record a loop without any effects, adding them later and hearing the changes in real time - GT-10 has that) it would help a lot...

Well... I'll see what I can do this weekend to find the tone...
Red Ibanez RG150 (with GK-3 and Fernandes Sustainer FSK-101)
Honey Burst Epiphone LP Standard
Black Fender Standard Strat "a la Blackie"
POD HD500
GR-55
FRFR KRK Rokit 5 Monitors

aliensporebomb

Quote from: uglybassplayer on October 04, 2013, 06:44:52 AM
The question you should really ask him is:  What tone(s) is he using for PCM1 and PCM2 on the GR-55.   It sounds like he's using one (or two) of the tones from the "Synth Pad/Strings" tones (Tone # range 609 through 692).  That's most likely what he means by "soundscapes/space sound"

Here's a list of all the PCM tones available on the GR-55
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/derivates/25/001/585/522/DV040_PDF_Copy_roland_GR-55_PCM_Tone_List_H70990.pdf

Frank.

His version sure sounds like frequent fluctuating between different string patches or using something similar to the slicer/panner/sample and hold type effect.

Maybe you could offer to pay him for the patch?  Haha. 

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

creart

Hi here's a fast patch I made...  probably not close enough yet but still... maybe you can use it as sort of a basis to change to your needs...
the mp3 that I added was played with exp on that adds compressor...
sound is a bit noisy but I'm sure that could easily be improved...

cheers
Hans

Practus

Quote from: aliensporebomb on October 04, 2013, 01:49:33 PM
His version sure sounds like frequent fluctuating between different string patches or using something similar to the slicer/panner/sample and hold type effect.

Maybe you could offer to pay him for the patch?  Haha. 



Yes... I agree with you. The patch seems a little complex to be just one "space sound" shifted a couple of octaves up... I don't know... I wish Roland had included this patch as one of the Artist Patches published a while ago, but that's not the case... I'll see if I find some free time to figure this patch out with the GR... I mean, I already tried, with no luck, but I guess I didn't cover all the possibilities either, so... I don't know if the guy would sell his patch, but I'd buy it in no time if this was the case...

Quote from: creart on October 04, 2013, 02:51:11 PM
Hi here's a fast patch I made...  probably not close enough yet but still... maybe you can use it as sort of a basis to change to your needs...
the mp3 that I added was played with exp on that adds compressor...
sound is a bit noisy but I'm sure that could easily be improved...

cheers
Hans

Thanks for the post. This can surely help me at least giving me some ideas as starting points to tweak.


I'll make sure to post the patch here as soon as I get it right.

Thanks everyone for the excellent insights...

Cheers!
Red Ibanez RG150 (with GK-3 and Fernandes Sustainer FSK-101)
Honey Burst Epiphone LP Standard
Black Fender Standard Strat "a la Blackie"
POD HD500
GR-55
FRFR KRK Rokit 5 Monitors

creart

Hey Practus
Looking forward to what you come up with :)