VG99 Ignored by Roland ?

Started by 2pods, April 02, 2009, 08:17:30 AM

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germanicus

Quote from: aliensporebomb on May 06, 2009, 12:37:33 PM
How much is the Axe-FX retailing for these days anyway? 

I see the ads and they're full page glossy which means "this isn't cheap at all". 

Can the Axe-FX do what I want?  I want to have the low E and A be basses and the D, G, B and E to be
multi-processed guitars.



The Axe-fx is a different beast. Its much more focused. It doesnt model guitars, nor does it do guitar to midi conversion, hrm, or alternate tunings. Its not a hex processor. The axe is an advanced effects/amp modeller. Its sort of a pod x3 on steroids. Ive seen/heard them in person, havent owned one. Personally thought it sounded nice but it cant do the wealth of things a vg99 can, its just it has superiority in its amp/cabinet modelling.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

hippietim

Quote from: germanicus on May 06, 2009, 08:11:09 PM
Personally thought it sounded nice but it cant do the wealth of things a vg99 can, its just it has superiority in its amp/cabinet modelling.

I would add that the Axe-FX has dramatically better effects as well.  The VG-99 into the Axe-FX is really a remarkable combination.

mooncaine

Some say it's expensive, but I don't think so. I think it's FRIKN AWESOME and it saves me lots of money by letting me try out different sounds and styles without buying other manufacturers' gear. Almost the entire history of guitar sounds, plus sounds I dreamed up myself, plus synth-like sounds that I can play naturally, the way I play a guitar. Just amazing. The Roland VG series is my most favorite guitar gear discovery, ever.

fuzzfactory

some say it is expensive?
compared to what? a nice martin costs about 4 grand......
i think the vg-99 is very reasonably priced.....hell i would go as far as
saying it is the single best thing i have ever bought for my guitar besides my guitar itself  ;D

hippietim

Quote from: fuzzfactory on May 08, 2009, 12:30:29 AM
some say it is expensive?
compared to what? a nice martin costs about 4 grand......
i think the vg-99 is very reasonably priced.....hell i would go as far as
saying it is the single best thing i have ever bought for my guitar besides my guitar itself  ;D

It's all relative.  A VG-99 rig *is* quite expensive - $1400 for the VG-99, $400 for the FC-300, and $200 for the GK-3.  I'm not saying it's unreasonably priced but it's actually pretty expensive for most folks.

Comparing it to a Martin is odd considering that a VG doesn't come anywhere near sounding like a $4K Martin nor is the VG competing in that market.  Comparing it to other modeling products does make sense.

porieux

Quote from: hippietim on May 07, 2009, 07:21:32 AM
The VG-99 into the Axe-FX is really a remarkable combination.

I would love to hear more about how you use these two together, how you wire them up etc.
I have both units now and would be quite interested to know more, should you get a chance.

hippietim

Quote from: porieux on May 20, 2009, 05:35:37 AM
I would love to hear more about how you use these two together, how you wire them up etc.
I have both units now and would be quite interested to know more, should you get a chance.

It's actually pretty simple - I run the outs of the VG-99 into the effects return on the Axe-FX.  I don't use any amp/cab sims from the VG-99 - they just don't compare to the Axe-FX.  If you run stereo out of the VG-99 and pan each of your signal paths hard left/right then you can route those independently in the Axe-FX and still maintain two independent guitar/effect/amp signal chains.

aliensporebomb

#57
So if you're Donald Trump the VG-99/Axe-FX combined setup is the one to get to cover EVERYTHING.

I understand Dweezil Zappa replaced his entire touring rig for Zappa Plays Zappa to that of an AxeFX.

Still, the VG does more of what I need it to.  Maybe if I win the lottery I can get an AxeFX.

But then again Bill Ruppert sold his AxeFX to get TWO VG99s.

Depends on your taste I guess.

I don't think Roland is "ignoring" the device, like many companies they are trying to stay alive in a
down economy and the resources they have are not as extensive as once might have been.

The other interesting thing: the VG99 display at my local guitar center has been taken down. 
No explanation.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

2pods

QuoteThe other interesting thing: the VG99 display at my local guitar center has been taken down. 
No explanation.

More alarming than interesting I would say.
At least there is the Frank Gambale interview, but it still seems like an afterthought.

If this was Line6, they would have everyone and their celebrity dog using a VG99 both in print and utubed in all the major music mags.
Maybe Line6 don't have as much money to rely on as Roland, and have to get out there and sell the products accordingly.

I also don't see what the Axe-FX has to do with this thread. Begone, O rich people !  ;D
Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay

hippietim

Quote from: 2pods on July 13, 2009, 03:34:36 AM
I also don't see what the Axe-FX has to do with this thread. Begone, O rich people !  ;D

A VG-99 is $1395 with a GK-3 or $1295 without it.  An Axe-FX is $1499.  Anyone that can afford to plunk down for a VG-99 can afford an Axe-FX.

hippietim

Quote from: aliensporebomb on July 09, 2009, 06:30:15 PM
I don't think Roland is "ignoring" the device, like many companies they are trying to stay alive in a
down economy and the resources they have are not as extensive as once might have been.

They haven't released a significant update for the product AT ALL.  The only update they released fixed critical defects with piezo pickups that should not have shipped to begin with.  The VG-99 sounded terrible with my Brian Moore.  So they released a fix several MONTHS later (which was about 18 months ago).  And that's it.

The VG-99 could be awesome.  But it seriously needs a software revision.  The amp and cabinet modeling just does not cut it compared to the Axe-FX or even a POD X3.  And the MIDI guitar implementation on the VG-99 is very weak compared to the GI-10, GI-20, Axon, and pretty much any of the MIDI GR models.

2pods

QuoteA VG-99 is $1395 with a GK-3 or $1295 without it.  An Axe-FX is $1499.  Anyone that can afford to plunk down for a VG-99 can afford an Axe-FX.

I was just being polite regarding the AXE-FX.

Maybe I should have just said that the AXE-FX has nothing to do with this thread, so take it somewhere else  :P

Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay

hippietim

Quote from: 2pods on July 13, 2009, 08:26:10 AM
I was just being polite regarding the AXE-FX.

Maybe I should have just said that the AXE-FX has nothing to do with this thread, so take it somewhere else  :P



Except that it was brought up so it's just fine to talk about it.

aliensporebomb

The AxeFX does seem to have a big advantage in many quick updates but the company
is small but purposeful - I hope they don't go down.   Right now they are riding a wave
with many players using the system and LOTS of color ads in the trade publications.

Roland tends to move slowly and they might not see the AxeFX as truly competition.

The fact that the small team for the VG is working on other Roland V products makes me wonder "when are we going to get back to the 99 please?" 

I mean, they could pay Bill Ruppert to create a "evocative sounds" pack and that would
be a big help. 

I don't know - I listen to the tracks laid down by Bill Ruppert and I go "the vg99 IS awesome
just the way it is..."  BUT.... compare against some of the AxeFX sounds and...yeah.

Yes, it would benefit from a major update: I think all it would take is someone like Steve Vai or
the like to latch onto it and maybe some more attention would occur. 

The recent developments with Frank Gambale has been a little help.  MAYBE we'll see some
more action now.  Alain Caron was a big user of the VB systems with his six string bass in
the Uzeb project in the 80s and 90s, maybe the V-trio will get some momentum happening.

One question would be:  "But.. where are the major players with this system?"

In the eighties with the Roland GR systems, we'd see lots of press including a full page article
in Rolling Stone about the Roland GR guitar synthesizers with color pictures of the guitars and
controller and the prominent players (I still have the article somewhere).

Ads and interviews in guitar magazines showed prominent players like Andy Summers,
Jimmy Page, Vernon Reid (Living Colour), Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew (King Crimson)
and Neil Schon had all picked up on the GR system and used it prominently on their
records.

I even went out of my way to buy CDs by artists working with the GR systems because
it was a mysterious, evocative sound.

I could give you a "ten most essential Roland GR300 discs you must buy" off the top of my
head.

The VG99 seems to not have quite the attention the earlier systems had, music made a
change to more organic sounds and less production.  Even so, you can get those sounds
out of this box in spades.  But not from the presets!

To be honest: I couldn't tell you ten records this system is on at all like I could with the GR.

Part of the issue is marketing, the other is technical.

Look at all the glossy ads for the AxeFX out there now.   It's crazy.  They ARE riding a wave
and LOTS of major players are using it now.

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

2pods

QuoteThe AxeFX does seem to have a big advantage in many quick updates but the company
is small but purposeful - I hope they don't go down. Right now they are riding a wave
with many players using the system and LOTS of color ads in the trade publications.

This is my point !
This is exactly what Roland should be doing and as you pointed out, this was the norm for them in the past.

The Axe doesn't do midi, so is not what I want, but I appreciate the small "expert" company/user interaction. They remind me of Slim Devices who did so much for their customers with their Squeezebox network music player (I have an SB3) for years, but ultimately sold their product on to Logitech. Maybe Roland will eventually buy Axe-FX ?
Fender G5 Strat, PRS SE Santana/w TriplePlay

aliensporebomb

Thinking...

The VB 99 has the following:
Poly Defretter,
Poly EQ,
Poly Ring Mod (with distortion)
Poly String modeling (some really cool options)

I suspect these items could be added to the VG-99.  Maybe it's being worked on as I type this, maybe not.
Maybe that part of it is already done, they're just waiting for Apple and Microsoft.  I'll explain.

Some of the hold up might be the upcoming Mac OS X "Snow Leopard" is September and then
Microsoft is releasing Windows 7 in October.   A big one-two punch of major OS updates.

I suspect Roland may be holding off for these events rather than prematurely shipping a 64-bit driver
for Vista since it's obvious Vista will be replaced by Windows 7 and they will likely need to make sure that
the current OS X VG software runs under Snow Leopard.

Just some thinking out loud...
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

cynegetic


germanicus

I have no inside information, but I imagine that the vg99 is probably 'complete' in its current state from Rolands perspective. It does everything its advertised. The editor works with current 32 bit operating systems. Its a stable unit (much more so than my pod x3 live is). The editor in and of itself is a bonus.

Id love to be wrong but I dont have any expectation of further updates. If it happens great, but im extremely pleased with its current performance. Roland is probably in early-mid development of the vg-100 at this point.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

A2theT

I agree with Germ. I don't have any major issues with my 99 at all.  The editor is fantastic and my only suggestion would have been to bundle the librarian's functions within it a little better.  The FC-300 is rock solid and bullet proof IMO.  The only "wish list" item I could ask for is two more CTRL pedals and a LED display above them identifying the parameter that is currently assigned so you could truely use it in stomp box mode. 

I have bought tons of gear.  I recently sold my X3Live and the only thing I currently have in addition to my 99 is a new Digitech RP1000 and I'm almost ready to sell it too.  I'm addicted to the search for gear and tone utopia and am so tempted at trying an Axe FX but my fear is that I will crawl back to the 99.  I wish the Axe FX had a proprietary pedal board with expression pedals.  All I can do now is wait with heavily baited breath for the VG-100.  I'd love to see some press on it if the product line managers at Roland were really working on it.  It would be good advertising for them. 
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars