Boss GR-D V-Guitar Distortion & Boss GR-S V-Guitar Space

Started by Orren Merton, November 01, 2012, 02:48:20 PM

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oddguitar

So the GR-55 offers the following synth-COSM sounds: GR, Wave Synth, Filter Bass, Crystal, Organ and Brass.

The VG-99 offers all of those plus the following: Bowed, Dual, Pipe, Solo and PWM.

The GR-D offers VG-Dist 1, VG-Dist 2, Poly Dist, and Synth sounds.

The GR-S offers Crystal, Rich Modulation, Slow Pad and Brilliant Clean.

My question is: are the VG-Dist 1, VG-Dist 2, Poly Dist, Synth, Crystal, Rich Modulation, Slow Pad and Brilliant Clean sounds in the GR-D/GR-S just rehashed versions of what's already available in the VG-99/GR-55 or are they new sounds?

I like the symplicity offered by the pedal format, so I'm tempted to pick up a GR-55 as well as both the GR-D & GR-S (sort of a poor man's VG-99) and connect them all using two US-20's.  However, if most of the sounds in the GR-D & GR-S are already in the GR-55, then it would be pointless.

I'm also wondering if Roland has anything GK-related up their sleeve for NAMM, although the appearance of these new GR pedals in November makes me think that we've seen all the new GK gear we're going to see for a while.  A VG-99 replacement is due, but I doubt Roland will refresh the line due to the poor sales of the entire VG catalog with the exception of the GR-55 (a source told me that the GR-55 has outsold all the other VG & GR offerings put together).

I'd really like to see a GR Twin Pedal offering with just guitar models and alternate tunings.

-oddguitar


Elantric

QuoteI'm tempted to pick up a GR-55 as well as both the GR-D & GR-S (sort of a poor man's VG-99) and connect them all using two US-20's.

Really?
http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/Daily/News/Roland_Announces_the_GRs_Space_and_GR_D_Distortion_V_Guitar_Twin_Stompboxes.aspx

I bet by the time you add up the $$ cost of ALL Those - you could have bought TWO VG-99s via the Group Buy here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6768.0



oddguitar

Hmmm...I opened up the link to Premier Guitar, but I don't see anything about pricing on there....in fact, I haven't seen anything about pricing anywhere.

You may be right though, it may just be cheaper to get a VG-99...

-oddguitar

Now_And_Then

Quote from: oddguitar on November 12, 2012, 03:42:02 PMI like the symplicity offered by the pedal format, so I'm tempted to pick up a GR-55 as well as both the GR-D & GR-S (sort of a poor man's VG-99) and connect them all using two US-20's.

It won't be simple when you find a sound that you like and want to save it as a preset...

Kevin M

I don't really see the appeal of these for people on the fringe of this type of stuff. For a guitarist casually interested in synth type effects, there are other units available that don't require a special pickup. For those of us who immerse ourselves more in the modeling world, these don't offer anything new or complementary to our existing gear, especially considering the limited routing options on them.  I'm scratching my head on this one.

datsunrobbie

Quote from: Now_And_Then on November 12, 2012, 07:14:48 PM


It won't be simple when you find a sound that you like and want to save it as a preset...

Unless you have a really cool mixer to feed all those devices to (that can remember settings for the channels being used for a "patch"), I'd think saving a sound would be next to impossible. You would have at least 3 channels, if not 6, coming from the 3 devices, and have to set the mixer to get all three dialed in to get back to your sound. Not to mention resetting options on 3 boxes plus the mixer when you want your next "patch".

Unless somebody finds a sound in one of these boxes that Bill Ruppert says the VG-99 cannot duplicate (or at least come REALLY close to), I don't see these new boxes holding much interest for someone already aware of the Roland GK/VG line.

I'd like to see Roland and Fender come forth with a a few GK-equipped Squier models. Keep the prices low and make sure they are on the sales floor hooked up to the GR-55 and these new pedals. A new player probably won't drop another $900 on a Mexican Strat so they can buy a GR-55, but $300-400 for a gk-equipped Squier Strat or Tele is a lot easier sale. I suspect you would find a lot of players who don't want the GK-3 external would pick up the Squiers as a "second" guitar (no such thing as too many guitars) or just for the GK electronics, especially if they reworked the GK connector to minimize the mounting hole required. If they move the electronics from the connector to the main board and attach with a ribbon cable it would greatly reduce the size of the required hole and make moving the electronics to another guitar a much easier job. A lot of players have gutted Line 6 Variaxes and moved the electronics to nicer guitars. The Roland GK-Kit is not really difficult to install, but does not have the "finished" look that the RR-strat has got.

aliensporebomb

#56
Quote from: oddguitar on November 12, 2012, 03:42:02 PM

My question is: are the VG-Dist 1, VG-Dist 2, Poly Dist, Synth, Crystal, Rich Modulation, Slow Pad and Brilliant Clean sounds in the GR-D/GR-S just rehashed versions of what's already available in the VG-99/GR-55 or are they new sounds?


I edited the above:

I guarantee I could come up with all of those sounds on the VG-99 or variations (that would sound BETTER IMO).  I realized there's a way to do that rich chorusing they talk about:  Just use both A and B paths with chorus plus modulation and maybe a little delay using the A-B link route A to B.  That's one idea. 

The VG-99 could do a better job on the distortions than the stompbox can, all of the synthy stuff could also be done better on the 99 as well.  I suspect these little boxes are stripped down inexpensive ways of getting in the neighborhood of the sounds you can get on the 99.

I've seen 99's as inexpensive as $600 used. 

I agree on the idea of having a Squier version of a GK guitar - especially since the nicer Squiers are good values.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Orren Merton

Quote from: datsunrobbie on November 14, 2012, 07:40:42 AM
I'd like to see Roland and Fender come forth with a a few GK-equipped Squier models.

Did you know that they are now selling a USB Squire through the Apple Store? $199. If they could do a GK guitar at that price point, that could definitely get some new users interested!

QuoteA lot of players have gutted Line 6 Variaxes and moved the electronics to nicer guitars.

I am not so sure that's happening much recently, as I think the only Line 6 Variax guitars for sale now are the more expensive, Taylor-designed Variax guitars. There might be a market for "bottom end" GK guitars, but Line 6 tried to sell bottom end Variax guitars (the Variax 300) and sales were disappointing.

Orren

Elantric

#58
QuoteI suspect these little boxes are stripped down inexpensive ways of getting some of the sounds you can get on the more expensive gear.

But if  GR-D and GR-S are released at NAMM with a $300 street price each - FAIL, dead on arrival.

mbenigni

QuoteIf they could do a GK guitar at that price point, that could definitely get some new users interested!

Maybe, but one significant problem remains:  the move to a hex pickup requires the adoption of TWO pieces of hardware simultaneously before there's any return on investment.  The approach of selling, say, the GR55 with a pickup bundled is viable, but expensive.  A better solution would be a cheap hex guitar with some kind of added value BUILT IN at a reasonable cost.  This might eventually result in an established base of GK-ready players who would buy new effects, etc. as they hit market.

An obvious opportunity would have been a GK out on the new G5 VG Strat.  You buy into the hex pickup because you want guitar models and/or alt. tuning, and then when Roland tried to pitch a new pedal a year later, they HAVE A CUSTOMER WAITING.  It amazes me that they didn't do this.  Never mind that half the necessary hardware is in place and they made the product itself much less attractive by skipping the jack; it was also an incredibly short-sighted marketing decision.  They keep painting their own GK products into corners.

Elantric

#60
They need a $349 Squire "GC-1 clone with 13 pin out AND USB class compliant audio I/O
The reason this does not already exist is either stupidity or greed

Boils down to Roland Japans lack of ability to connect the dots.
and a good measure of the "not invented here" syndrome.

mbenigni

QuoteI like the symplicity offered by the pedal format, so I'm tempted to pick up a GR-55 as well as both the GR-D & GR-S
If you like simplicity of any kind, I'd advise against it.  The GR-55 alone will do most if not all of what that entire rig would do.  Do you expect to use PCM tones?  If not, maybe consider a VG99 instead of the GR55.  If you need PCM, I'd stick with the GR55 and find workarounds for the shortcomings.  That's just one opinion from a guy who likes simplicity though.  :)

QuoteI'd really like to see a GR Twin Pedal offering with just guitar models and alternate tunings.

Yeah, I'd buy that pedal, too.  Especially if it ran on batteries for a decent duration.

mbenigni

QuoteThey need a $349 Squire "GC-1 clone with 13 pin out AND USB class compliant audio I/O
The reason this does not already exist is either stupidity or greed

This does sound like a good product, but the problem remains - a player looking for a cheap solution who is thus far "outside the GK world" isn't likely to see the need for the hex pickup at extra cost.  It's not likely an entry-level buyer would walk into a store needing a cheap strat and a *very* specialized chorus pedal at the same time.  So unless the guitar has something on-board that adds value, or Roland can bundle it cheaply with an effect pedal that alot of people want, this product's sales would be undercut by something like the USB Strat linked above. 

Hex distortion and the like is not going to cut it if they're looking to sell guitars to new players; it's hard to even explain why hex distortion might occasionally be desireable.  Poly synth is a better angle for a bundle, but it needs to be affordable and sound absolutely amazing - enough to inspire a player who doesn't even know he wants a synth yet.

Kevin M

Quote from: Elantric on November 14, 2012, 09:33:42 AM
But if  GR-D and GR-S are released at NAMM with a $300 street price each - FAIL, dead on arrival.

Yep!  Unfortunately, that's about the price I anticipate Roland introducing them at.  Honestly, half that price (say, $149 USD) is about the only number that makes sense to me.

oddguitar

Quote from: mbenigni on November 14, 2012, 11:04:29 AM

If you like simplicity of any kind, I'd advise against it.  The GR-55 alone will do most if not all of what that entire rig would do.  Do you expect to use PCM tones?  If not, maybe consider a VG99 instead of the GR55.  If you need PCM, I'd stick with the GR55 and find workarounds for the shortcomings.  That's just one opinion from a guy who likes simplicity though.  :)

I'm interested in making my guitar sound different than an electric guitar (read COSM synth/PCM sounds).  The guitar models aren't so important to me outside of the acoustic, nylon, sitar, resonator and banjo sounds and the ability to alternate tune.  I already own a Kemper, which IMHO is the best product of its kind, so I'm all set on the amp modeling side of things.

The GR-55 would appear to be the perfect choice, except that it doesn't offer the complete array of COSM synth sounds or the freeze function of the VG-99.  Finally, according to reports on this forum, the guitar out of the GR-55 is so noisy that I can't output it into my Kemper.

On the other hand, the VG-99 doesn't offer any PCM sounds, has amp models that I don't need, is expensive (especially when you add on the FC-300) and has a 204 page manual that is terrifying to someone like myself who likes it to be easy and user friendly so I can focus on playing rather than figuring out how to use it.

So I had hoped that the GR-D & GR-S combined with the GR-55 (either via two US-20's or one GKP-4) would give me a simple way of accessing the freeze function along with some of the missing synth sounds of the VG-99.  However, from what you guys are telling me, the sounds in the GR-D & GR-S are just duplicates of what's already in the VG-99....I can't win :-(

-oddguitar

gumtown

Quote from: oddguitar on November 14, 2012, 02:22:19 PMSo I had hoped that the GR-D & GR-S combined with the GR-55 (either via two US-20's or one GKP-4) would give me a simple way of accessing the freeze function along with some of the missing synth sounds of the VG-99.  However, from what you guys are telling me, the sounds in the GR-D & GR-S are just duplicates of what's already in the VG-99....I can't win :-(
How about getting the VG-99 and the GR-55 together ??
Or VG-99 and external midi synth module http://www.roland.com/products/en/SD-50/
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

QuoteI'm interested in making my guitar sound different than an electric guitar (read COSM synth/PCM sounds). 

Wait 2 months and get a Fishman Tripleplay and feed a Laptop running NI Komplete.

oddguitar

Quote from: Elantric on November 14, 2012, 03:04:34 PM
Wait 2 months and get a Fishman Tripleplay and feed a Laptop running NI Komplete.

I'm definitely considering it, but since there's only room for one hex pickup on a guitar, it would mean giving up guitar modeling, alternate tuning and COSM synth sounds.

Plus, I'm not entirely convinced that we'll actually see the Triple Play...it was announced a year ago, and still isn't available.

-oddguitar

Elantric

Once I get my Tripleplay - I will mod it to provide a 13 pin output

stay tuned

aliensporebomb

The winning move is to get a VG-99 and learn it thru and thru.  With that I honestly feel I don't need synths although I would entertain a bargain on a 55 for fun.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

DeRigueur

If Roland made a little VG pedal that produced the COSM guitar tones, I'd buy it.
IMO, this is something Roland does very well.
Fender GC-1 -- Boss SY-1000 -- Alto TS112A

mbenigni

#71
QuoteI can't win :-(

I think most of us have felt this way over the years.  It always amazes me how any given product will get me 90% of where I'm heading, and then I hit a wall.  The ways in which each product's limitations complement the limitations in other products so that I can never quite get the job done... it's so perfect I sometimes imagine a consortium of genius engineers designing ways to foil me (presumably to keep me running back to the guitar shop with money in hand.)

But I think I have a stricter sense of "simplicity" than you do.  I get frustrated if I start seeing more than 2 or 3 cables.  If you would have been happy with the GR55 and the GR-D and the GR-S and a US-20 and a mixer (phew) then I'm certain you can win with a little creativity.  First consider your footcontroller needs.  If they're fairly minimal, then I'd make the GR55 the center of your rig, and complement with a couple of handpicked effects pedals (e.g. EHX freeze, etc.) to get whatever you're missing that you thought the GRS/GRD might present.  If you need extensive control at your feet, then you're bound to pick up an FC300 or FCB or whatever anyway.  So do that, score a used VG99, and find a small (i.e. 1/3 rack space) sound module that meets your needs (e.g. SoundCanvas or the like.)  Or, as mentioned above, consider complementing either of these rigs with a decent laptop and some VSTs. 

I'm confident there are a lot of winning combinations that will offer more functionality, more variety, and less hassle than the GR55+GRS+GRD.

P.S. Just noticed you're already using a KPA.  Excellent amp modeling and excellent effects (fewer than in the GR55, but much better-sounding IMO).  This is kind of left-field, but have you considered a JTV Variax for guitar modeling/alt. tuning?  Or the Antares guitars that are coming to market soon?  That would cover your bases excepting straight MIDI stuff, where a laptop or older Roland guitar synth might suffice.

mbenigni

#72
Quote from: DeRigueur on November 15, 2012, 06:41:24 AM
If Roland made a little VG pedal that produced the COSM guitar tones, I'd buy it.
IMO, this is something Roland does very well.

Yeah, I think a lot of us agree.  A "GR-G" double wide battery-powered pedal that did COSM guitar modeling and alternate tunings - THAT would sell, and it would also encourage sales of GK-equipped guitars.  I'd buy it the second it was announced.

(Another model with MIDI Out, in addition to COSM guitars and detuning, would be very attractive indeed.)

datsunrobbie

Quote from: mbenigni on November 14, 2012, 11:11:27 AM
This does sound like a good product, but the problem remains - a player looking for a cheap solution who is thus far "outside the GK world" isn't likely to see the need for the hex pickup at extra cost.  It's not likely an entry-level buyer would walk into a store needing a cheap strat and a *very* specialized chorus pedal at the same time.  So unless the guitar has something on-board that adds value, or Roland can bundle it cheaply with an effect pedal that alot of people want, this product's sales would be undercut by something like the USB Strat linked above. 

Hex distortion and the like is not going to cut it if they're looking to sell guitars to new players; it's hard to even explain why hex distortion might occasionally be desireable.  Poly synth is a better angle for a bundle, but it needs to be affordable and sound absolutely amazing - enough to inspire a player who doesn't even know he wants a synth yet.

This is where Line 6 was very smart. You can pick up a POD and use it with a standard guitar and get a lot of functionality out of it. Then come back and pick up a Variax and open up a lot more functionality from the same effects unit. The POD HD 500 is selling for $500. If Roland could hit that price point with a successor to the GR-55 with a standard guitar input it should cut into Line 6's sales because potential customers would not be required to buy a GK equipped guitar to use it. Of course they would need to emphasize that some effects, like alternate tunings, require the use of the GK pickup. Having an inexpensive selection of GK-equipped guitars would also be very important. Being able to pick up a new guitar and plug it in is simply more satisfying than buying a pickup and installing it (for most guitarists).

mbenigni

#74
Good points.  You're kind of coming at it from the opposite angle:  selling effects that are already attractive to "standard" guitar owners, but that encourage purchase of GK guitars down the line.

Price point would be tough, though.  Those HD PODs sound great for the money.  Competing with that and adding GK capabilities would be costly for sure.