GR-55 - Tracking Solved - No bad notes

Started by Moja, April 25, 2017, 09:40:19 AM

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admin

#100
Quote
Because of the Op's demo of the piano patch I did check out some YouTube video of a guy playing a piano patch with the FTP and it sounded great. No bad notes no glitches and it tracked very fast. Is that what the FTP is all about ? I mean it seems to work.

Yes, that is what the FTP is all about - it remains the fastest guitar to MIDI converter for traditional guitar playing techniques

CodeSmart

Quote from: chrish on May 01, 2017, 07:00:32 PM
Quote
"I agree with this approach, but if we keep deriding and trying to derail what this guy may have come up with, he will just tell us to go f**k ourselves and just leave."

I think that ship has sailed.

Sorry if we scared you away,Op.

If it's any consolation the internet is not known for its high etiquette standards given it's virtual stab at the art of communication.

Agree, Words hurt.  This guy wanted to do a market study and you have showed him the true face of what kind of customers he'll get. I'd run like hell...
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

JiveTurkey

#102
Quote from: Elantric on April 26, 2017, 04:21:15 PM
Then the Gear Page's "like"s  must give you migraines . .
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/24007345/

Again - "likes" were added in response due to numerous requests for this feature by many other VGuitarForums member's.

It generates zero revenue for VGuitarforums. 

There are no pop up advertising or Monetization based upon "likes" here.

I suppose we could change that ?
Off-track post. I'm good at that but I try to be better about it at VGF  ;D I hate Facebook. Like functionality here and elsewhere is a nice way to integrate a little bit of that social media experience without the crap I don't like. Keep the likes!

Beyond that; the brain trust here is huuuuuuuge. Lots of excellent minds/resources for what I would safely say is a niche of a niche market.

As far as what the OP is proposing; I'm all for it yet I have my 55 dialed in pretty good. I don't do any drum/percussion parts or piano parts where things really go sour quickly. Every other instrument does great with some minor technique adjustments.

chrish

#103
Quote from: CodeSmart on May 01, 2017, 11:53:22 PM
Agree, Words hurt.  This guy wanted to do a market study and you have showed him the true face of what kind of customers he'll get. I'd run like hell...
Quote from: gumtown on April 26, 2017, 05:39:22 AM
Maybe a new lotion you rub into your guitar, made from an oily extract from snakes. ??  :P
codesmart, not sure if your post was directed towards me or towards one of the moderators as trying to deride the  op (wasn't my intent).

For example when I read the other quote above I thought that he was implying that maybe the op was a snake oil salesman. Was it a harmless joke? Or was it serious name-calling. I don't really know, just a guess.

But that's the problem with internet communication a lot of misunderstanding occurs mainly because we don't have the visual facial body language cues and the vocal sound cues when talking to strangers.

That's why the internet is considered to be a virtual reality which by definition can only mimic the real thing similar to the way a VG 99 can only mimic the sound and feel of a tube amplifier.

Another thing to consider is that we interpret and perceive reality through the lens of our biases.

We do have a childhood verse here in the US that says "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". In other words can only hurt if you let them.

I should also add that when someone, for example, calls a person a troll on the internet, that person is actually engaging in name-calling (imo). When someone engages in name-calling it's a reflection of that person's character and not a reflection of the character of the person being derided.


JiveTurkey

Quote from: gumtown on April 26, 2017, 05:39:22 AM
Maybe a new lotion you rub into your guitar, made from an oily extract from snakes. ??  :P

chrish

#105
Quote from:  sec6
New GKx Mystery Tracking Module

Pros: Great Tracking, no bad notes
Cons: Exhibits artifact of causing strife between members of vguitarforum community
I blame like button. :) :D :D :D ;D


whippinpost91850


billbax

Hi Everyone,

We still haven't seen any concrete evidence from Moja, just a couple of vague GR-55 demos. Passing it through the cynical filter, I'm now wondering if he's playing a tease/windup game.  Reading through Moja's first topic message, the wording is quite innocent and seems hastily written.  A serious innovator would have spent time on a full-ish audio demo, and probably given a sneak peek of a device.  No disrespect intended.

Bill   

gumtown

I certainly don't mean to offend Moja with any of my previous posts, they were intended in good humour.

Not sure if I have missed anything, but I still do not know what is actually on offer.

Moja has asked how much you would pay for good GR-55 tracking,
but has not alluded to whether it is a hardware box, a firmware upgrade, or a piece of paper describing 'how to' playing techniques.

asking "how much would you pay" for something unknown, is like "how long is a piece of string".

Moja - If you could please give some indication on what it is you have as a benchmark to base pricing on.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

mmmmgtr

#109
I think it even goes farther than that. I have absolutely no problem with someone trying to monetize the work they've done. The main problem here as I see it is with the market research approach. I work in software development so I do understand how difficult it is to attempt to create a product or solution and understand how valuable it will be to the target market. There are so many variables it is very very difficult to be precise about it in all cases. That is why some products fail and other products with the same basic idea succeed. It's a matter of aligning not only with the base expectation but also many of the details of what the end consumer will want.

In this case we have a solution that will provide improved crosstalk suppression. As I understand I don't believe it will provide any truly improved tracking capability, but I'm not 100% certain of that. For me there are other details that are important to know as well. For example it would be important for me to understand exactly how much work it will take for me to implement the solution. Is it a board swap internal to the GK circuitry? It is some kind of modification to the GK pickup? Is it an inline box that simply uses 13 pin connectors? Is it something  altogether different? Cosmetically  how does it change my current setup ? Ideally I want to see an easy to install solution that provides both crosstalk suppression as well as improved tracking accuracy. I own both internal GK installations as well as GK installations using the external GK 3. Ripping apart my internal GK 3 and even the externally mounted GK boxes in order to do board swaps or component swaps would not be ideal for me.

I've only pointed out a few details here and that are important to me, and I believe throughout this thread others have brought up issues that are important to them. Without really understanding at least some of those details it is very hard for me to commit to what I'm willing to pay for a solution. If a solution were ideal for me I'd probably willing to go about as high as $200. As fewer of my ideal requirements are met the price I'm willing to pay will go down until I get to the point that it's simply not worth it at all for me. As far as I'm concerned I have an acceptable solution using the GR55 that works for me but could stand some improvement. I'm willing to pay for that Improvement as long as  it meets my requirements.

Another point I'd like to weigh in on is the fact that we've really become spoiled by this forum. At least I know I have. We have such a knowledgeable talented group of people here that in many cases are willing to give their work away for free that we really forget the fact that it's not an entitlement it's a privilege we have because of this board. I'd like to think that others would be willing to give back,  but there's nothing wrong with somebody wanting to gain some compensation back for hard work they put in.  I have tried to help out where I can to provide advice and knowledge as well but I clearly have gained far more then I put out. Because of that I will probably always try to supply value to this board for free when and if I can. The floorboard and codesmart's devices have been invaluable to me, not to mention all of the patches and general knowledge imparted here. I easily could have paid hundreds more for the value I received from this board and I'm very thankful for that.

I would encourage  Moja to consider all of this when he makes his decision to move forward  or not. If he chooses to productize he needs to let us now what the solution is, how it works,  how it is implemented,  how will look, etc... If not, I would strongly encourage him to document and protect his invention but also consider sharing the solution with those here that might be willing to take the DIY approach. With his solution / invention protected no one else would really be able to profit from his knowledge but we individually could at least benefit whatever he was able to discover.  IMHO, that is the spirit of this board. Ultimately he has every right to decide how to proceed.

whippinpost91850

#110
That was very well stated.  I just hope he does proceed

I wish Moja would check back in it's been awhile, l for one am intrigued to find out more

HecticArt

I hope Moja checks back in too.
If he has a good idea, he has a good idea.
The marketing/presentation stuff (or whatever you want to call it) that some of us questioned doesn't bug me.
If this is something that's worth it for him to develop, he'll get better at that stuff as he moves along.
I'm really curious about the device.

Since this is post #120, I'm assuming that it's compelling enough to a lot of people around here.

chrish

#112
Quote from:  admsustainiac

At least we dont have a "Dislike" button  . . . .  yet.
very true no dislike button yet, however vguitarforums does have a Smite button. Hey but it's all good fun right?

smite
verb [ T ] UK ​ /smaɪt/ US ​ /smaɪt/ smote, smitten literary

to hit someone forcefully or to have a sudden powerful or damaging effect on someone


Moja

    Hey guys, terribly sorry for droping out for so long .
   I was dealing with other pressing personal issues in my life .
   I hope to be more active in the near future .
    Thanks everyone for your supportive comments .
   Regards
   

Silas Lang

I've read the whole topic and I find nothing disrespectful to the OP in my opinion. Just some gentlemen (and some lady, maybe) voicing their opinions.

Even if the product sounds promising, I'm with sec6 in that the commercial tactics put me a bit off. I think it would be more reasonable if the OP would valuate his work (both material and inmaterial) and put a price accordingly.

chrish

Quote from: Moja on April 17, 2018, 09:26:57 PM
    Hey guys, terribly sorry for droping out for so long .
   I was dealing with other pressing personal issues in my life .
   I hope to be more active in the near future .
    Thanks everyone for your supportive comments .
   Regards
   
welcome back.

If you're still working on your project and need to bring it to market , I read that  Behringer is opening up his production facilities for independent designers in the euro rack modular world.

Who knows maybe he'd manufacturer your device also.

malfrench


nos4r2

Quote from: Moja on April 17, 2018, 09:26:57 PM
    Hey guys, terribly sorry for droping out for so long .
   I was dealing with other pressing personal issues in my life .
   I hope to be more active in the near future .
    Thanks everyone for your supportive comments .
   Regards
   

Seems you have answered your own question - you're too busy to bring it to market ( as well as offer timely support for it).

Perhaps in a pay it forward kind of fashion, you might share with us what you did as a solution? There are plenty of us who struggling with piezo driven tracking issues. Would be great to sort them out.

gumtown

#119
18 months down the track and I still have no clue what the
Quote from: Moja on April 25, 2017, 09:40:19 AMFinally recently we came up with an amazing solution . The result is simply unbelievable , Amazing better !!!!
    Crosstalk is non existent as you can see from the " Sensitivity " on GR-55 setup menue.
   Crosstalk is the difference between the string being plucked and the other Muted ( non plucked ) strings. In this case I am plucking the G string and observing how much false noise/crosstalk appears on the other 5 strings.
     I believe that typically GK-x users typically get about 35db crosstalk rejection. Possibly 45db maximum in a perfect world. Still eat not enough .
    Our crosstalk is so extremely low, that at this time, we can't measure it with our currrent instruments.
is ??

A programmable hex bandpass filter?
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

GraemeC

This post seems to be drying up. I am intrigued by the idea and could be interested in acquiring a solution.

I have three GK3 equipped home built axes plus one with the GK2a. Just in case I get a problem with one of them. And one GR55. With what our duo does, this is vital equipment. And Moja's possible solution would be great!

Thinking about the source of the crosstalk, I am thinking its probably more mechanical or magnetic transfer of the sound through the bridge or the hex pickup itself than anything else. This shouldn't be that hard to test.

There are similar issues with crosstalk when fitting an axe with a sustainiac. Palm muting and a rubber band around the first fret there are your best friends.

Having said that, I have long wanted to fit a sustainer on a GK3 equipped guitar...

But in the meantime - come back Moja, all is forgiven!

admin

Quote from: GraemeC on November 08, 2018, 05:36:43 AM
This post seems to be drying up. I am intrigued by the idea and could be interested in acquiring a solution.

I have three GK3 equipped home built axes plus one with the GK2a. Just in case I get a problem with one of them. And one GR55. With what our duo does, this is vital equipment. And Moja's possible solution would be great!

Thinking about the source of the crosstalk, I am thinking its probably more mechanical or magnetic transfer of the sound through the bridge or the hex pickup itself than anything else. This shouldn't be that hard to test.

There are similar issues with crosstalk when fitting an axe with a sustainiac. Palm muting and a rubber band around the first fret there are your best friends.

Having said that, I have long wanted to fit a sustainer on a GK3 equipped guitar...

But in the meantime - come back Moja, all is forgiven!

Until then try wax pot in your gk3 hex pickup
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43.0

chrish

Quote from: Elantric on April 29, 2017, 03:39:46 PM
IMHO it's a valuable thread because it raises new awareness of the age old divided pickup adjacent string  crosstalk problem and its negative impact on quality performance with GR-55

And many solid examples of possible methods to minimize crosstalk have been provided by many here on this thread

It's not beyond the scope of many folks here at VGuitarForums  to fabricate a DIY circuit or implement a DIY GK PU mod  either.

But there is a market for a turn key solution priced right

Until then,
Try lowering your GR-55's GK String Sensitivity to 20-30 range


And read

Optimal GK Hex Pickup Settings.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1060.msg5412#msg5412
I agree with this.


Elantric

#123
Quote from: chrish on November 08, 2018, 04:59:31 PM
I agree with this.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20783.msg178752#msg178752
Above was Written 18 months ago - before I wax potted my GK-3  - big difference for me

But I understand its beyond capabilities of most people

suggest read the reviews
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43.0

Carlb wrote> (he uses a Guitar with GK-3 and Boss GP-10
Quote
Drum roll ... Warblies cut WAY down. I can play alt-tunings with open strings ringing away: no warbles!

My usual warblies torture test - 5th, 7th, and 12th fret harmonics have a superior improvement. Hardly nothing noticed on 12th and 5th frets, and only mild warblies on the low-frequency strings for the 7th fret.

Alt tunings are now VERY playable. Live: predicting no problems. Studio: just tune the darned guitar. Studio work needs to be the cleanest you can possibly be.

Of course the acoustic ringing of the string versus the electronic pitch shift will give your ears a tweek. More or less depending on what intervals you're trying.

So my advice for 13-pin playing: mag-hex pickups only, and pot them!

gearhound22