VG-8 - VIO Guitar :: The Rescue - VST plugin + GP-10 six channels audio approach

Started by dblacha, November 29, 2014, 06:12:28 PM

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Elantric

#50
QuoteElantric,

why did you move this topic to the "VG-8 Top Things to Know"?

My intention was to try to recover the VIO model and it's a general thread.

Really no one is interested in it?




Quite the opposite  - There are sections here that are "ghost towns"  - and the main VGuitarForums General Discussion area is one of them  - some folks Never visit that area and / or never get alerts unless they have clicked "Notify" on the upper right .

The Concept here is the " Top Things to Know" sections here at VGuitarforums is where all the crucial important threads are.
( further details here:)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4973.msg57958#msg57958

Ive seen many important discussions  that get left in the "General discussion area" become orphaned and dead.
QuoteGeneral Discussion - this is for basic questions, conversation

Reference Library - this is the "Go To " area for newbies, as its the Fast Track area for Solid Information and important concepts, and discussions.

If you see a thread that gets moved to the  Top Things to Know area , its because we want to maintain a high signal to noise ratio of good information here, and not allow crucial bits of information get lost in 6 weeks to page 48 of the General Discussion area, and then forgotten.
In other words, good advice , Important tips, How To's", Bug Workarounds are all provided in the " Top Things to Know" area  - that should be the first place to navigate to, as it contains "all the good stuff" and the information contained there is known to be good valid solid information that is important to know.


The Moderators here do read each and every thread, so as soon as any thread here starts to get interesting and someone posts crucial important new concepts which should be shared with the community, one of the moderators here will move the whole thread to the suitable " Top Things to Know" area. Additional new posts on threads already moved to the  Top Things to Know area are encouraged!
Do not be alarmed if one of your threads here at VGuitarForums gets relocated or moved or Locked. The Moderators here are simply trying to avoid having dozens of different threads which actually all cover the identical topic.  We do encourage you to use search  before posting, and we do encourage you to post a new question to old 4 year old threads.


Bulk of this topic is the VIO Guitar - a resource found on the VG-8  - so it belongs in the VG-8 topic area where long time VG-8 users ( and Google, Bing, Yahoo search bots") will find these topics , read, and possibly join the forum and contribute.

Yes - we want to examine the VG-8 "VIO" COSM model - so we may clone those tones on other processors, like the VG-99

But review all the VIO  sound examples and info on this thread - its full of  important VG-8  info, Ive already split off the "winter 2014 VG-8 deals on Ebay" posts to a new thread  -to keep this thread focuses on VIO Guitar 

As always  - if you seek to maximize your VGuitarForums experience, and keep up to date with latest news and info  - click link here each day:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=recent
Book mark this URL link above - Read all posts  and skim over the ones you are not interested in 

ffata

With all this current VG-8 discussion going on I went back to another patch that I always liked in the 8.
It's been some time but if I remember, I think the original was programmed by David Coffin.
To me, he was the Bill Ruppert of the VG-8.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13031.0

dblacha

ffata, thanks for the link.
David Coffin! I remember him, good old times of the VG-8 pioneers and Aure's vg-8.com site :-)

Quote from: ffata on December 04, 2014, 04:23:11 PM
With all this current VG-8 discussion going on I went back to another patch that I always liked in the 8.
It's been some time but if I remember, I think the original was programmed by David Coffin.
To me, he was the Bill Ruppert of the VG-8.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13031.0
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Elantric

David Coffin was the VG-8 "guru" back in the day - I even tracked him down and convinced him to get a VG-99, but he tried it for a while and sold it.

People ask the reluctance and slow adoption of the new Roland hex COSM processors, but realize there exists a few folks who dabbled with the VG-8 back in the 90's - and write off this entire technology and saying "been there, done that, sold it"

http://www.amptone.com/rolandcosm.htm

QuoteDavid Coffin wrote:
>I own the Ampulator and VG-8 and am another specialist in quiet cranked-tube-amp devices.
>I've also got, and love, a Roland VG-8, which is the most astounding guitar toy of the decade, by far, IMHO...but it can't quite do the Mesa thing. Touch sensitive, to be sure, but the sense of headroom just isn't there. Almost everything else I've ever dreamed of is, tho: an infinite variety of juicy and mind-boggling NEW guitar sounds, every bit as interesting as the tube thing (assuming that's already ALMOST in the bag!)

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/vg-8/conversations/topics/30310

Many VG-8 files and resources are still where they always have been
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/vg-8/info
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/vg-8/files
FWIW - I'm "Sustainiac_93401" over there and the Admin, since 2007 when Aure Prochaska retired:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/vg-8/files/VG-8%20patches/David%20Coffin/


Brak(E)man

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

dblacha

VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Rhcole

Just curious... this voice isn't monophonic, is it? I have yet to hear a single chord or duo phrase...

Elantric

VIO Guitar is full  polyphonic

And My VG-8 EX arrives today  - Need to submit an invoice for the 5 year rental to the guy who "borrowed" mine in 2009


myself I'm looking forward to playing VG-8  HRM Synths again,


(VG-8 Bulk Patches are here:)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;cat=22


http://appaz7.free.fr/VG8/VG8TM.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20050526002538/http://www.vg-8.com/patches/database





and having  the VG-8 EX's excellent Stomp Box mode and Real Time graphic on LCD showing which COSM PU Position is currently being used as I select it with GK-3 S1/S2 switches and the exclusive VG-8 "AutoTune" feature  - thats missing from later VG models  !

There is a reason Robert Fripp and even Vernon Reid are still seen using the VG-8 in their FX racks for live shows

Only bummer is there are very little MIDI CC# mapable FX Control Assignments on VG-8 - those did not arrive until the VG-88 

mbenigni

I'm loving this retro VG movement!  It's too easy to get caught up in insisting on "latest and greatest" and to forget that these older products were amazing musical instruments in their times.  The eBay prices on VG-8's are pretty compelling.

Elantric

My VG-8EX was $160 delivered  -came straight out of a smoke free Nashville Studio
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13021.0



See attached for the factory VG-8 EX Patch listing

supernicd

Well, dblacha, you will probably never get Roland to hand over the code for the VIO, but, on the bright side, it looks like you have started something!
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

dblacha

Thanks :-)

I'm preparing to write an email to Roland. Who knows...
On the one side: they can think that they'll lose the profits on potential model for a future VIO model (if ever...)
But! There's another side: if we would build some working and interesting VST VIO plugin over the GP-10 interface... Wouldn't be it a good deal for Roland?
As for now, there is no competitors for the GP-10 in sense of the hex audio interface, Am I right?

Quote from: SuperNiCd on December 10, 2014, 12:44:39 PM
Well, dblacha, you will probably never get Roland to hand over the code for the VIO, but, on the bright side, it looks like you have started something!
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Elantric

QuoteBut! There's another side: if we would build some working and interesting VST VIO plugin over the GP-10 interface... Wouldn't be it a good deal for Roland?

After playing my "new" VG-8EX for the past 30 minutes - why try to make VSTi Version of the VIO guitar?

There is Zero Lag on the VG-8 VIO Guitar or any other COSM patch - its a "pro" piece of gear! I even still have an all metal Roland VG-8 in store demo display stand from 1996 !  has that stealth fighter / darth vader type look.!

Remember it boils down to the "lag" that all Roland Guitar to MIDI systems experience - Even if you could model the incredible VG-8 VIO guitar with a VSTi soft instrument  - the Guitar MIDI "lag" of the GP-10 Pitch to MIDI will present problems for professional who care about playing in time and in the pocket with an ensemble 


Maybe an all audio path to trigger a soft instrument like Reaktor or u-he Zebra may provide an option.

   
In further news - glad I scored the 1998 "EX" model of the VG-8 - it is sonically superior to the 1st gen VG-8 of 1995 ( which was the type I spent most time with )

I recall the 1995 VG-8 was 18 bits A/D and 18 bit D/A

and the "improved" 1998 VG-8EX went to 20 bit A/D 20 bit D/A  - I hear better audio performance with the VG-8EX over an original VG-8

I love the VG-8 EX! and the VIO Guitar is indeed very special and well worth three times what i paid for the VG-8EX !

Back in 1998, my first "used" "1995 VG-8 with S1 Update" was $1400 - and this 2014  acquired used "1998 VG-8EX" was $160 and sounds great   I recall the original 1998 press releases for the VG-8EX mentioning higher grade audio path - and its true!   



Kevin M

Likewise, I'm glad I scored mine as well.  The librarian is at least functional for testing patches, too.

Elantric

Quoteif we would build some working and interesting VST VIO plugin over the GP-10 interface... Wouldn't be it a good deal for Roland?

It would be more productive for our community to buy Bill Ruppert a VG-8EX, and let him model it with his Kemper -or try to get in the VG-8 ballpark with the VG-99

I'd lend him mine - but we know what happened the last time I loaned a VG-8 to someone! ;) 

Upon demand to return the VG-8, the borrower tends to turn into Charlton Heston: muttering  " From my cold dead hands!"

Elantric

QuoteAs for now, there is no competitors for the GP-10 in sense of the hex audio interface, Am I right?

Actually in the UK - Bill Bax has a company devoted to such things

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8464.msg60501#msg60501
http://www.separate-strings.co.uk

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may13/articles/tonesearch-gk-breakout.htm




http://youtu.be/TFPzgPX8Jaw?list=UUPCLjaPm_t1IdNbPUG9Gt6Q


And 6 audio channels  - one per string  - has been a pet project for Henry J at Gibson for 20 years

Myself , MCK, and Shawnb each have a Gibson DarkFire - and that shipped with a proprietary Echo Audio Firewire Audio interface that supported direct one channel per string into a Mac/ PC- using a custom Ableton Live template from Craig Anderton to host 6 instances of NI Guitar rig - one per string

It even had a GK13 adapter cable for Dark Fire to drive VG-99  ( I was hired to work on that project)  - that compared to Roland GK hex COSM - even fewer folks on the planet understand !





http://www.technologytell.com/gadgets/42646/waiting-on-the-gibson-dark-fire/




====
Paradise Guitars with Firewire 6 channel Output  by Rolf Spuler (1958-2014)
http://www.rolfspuler.com/site/?page_id=2















Elantric

QuoteAs for now, there is no competitors for the GP-10 in sense of the hex audio interface, Am I right?

For another path to one string per track recording ( and other FX)

There is the SpiceTone 6Appeal - it as hex Fuzz+ GK13 to three 1/4" TRS Breakoutbox with MIDi control


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12104.0




Feed a Focusrite 18i6 or your favorite audio interface that has 6 channel I/O

dblacha

How are you Bill? Did you manage it?
I told you it is impossible :-D
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Tony Raven

Apologies for possibly creating a Zombie Thread, but as usual I'm late to the party. :'(

Begging forgiveness because I've only had my VG-8 a month, & am STILL awaiting a cable.

I've got to go back & ask a (for me) very basic question: What the HECK is this "VIO" thing, anyway?? With Ebotronix in the background, I've spent an hour searching stuff like Roland VIO patch or Vg VIO guitar & now the music's run through I admit I'm still ???.

Back to the manual, then. The VG-8EX patch listing gives me these:
  • A61 PowerVIO
  • A63 VIO PIPE
  • D51 Vio-Funk
  • D52 Vio-Orch
  • D53 Vio-Bass
plus more that use "VIO GUITAR" as an Instrument:
  • D61 SpinVOX
  • D63 Sparkle
  • D73 FlashBak
  • D74 D50Breth
  • E24 VIBEZ
  • E34 ATLANTIS
  • E54 UTOPIA
  • E64 AG VOICE
  • E84 CELTIC V
...but that is (as the saying goes) IT. I still have no idea what the underlying concept/philosophy/unifying element is that constitutes "VIO" & now I'm not so certain I know what (in this context) "Instrument" means. :-\ Any aid??

Kevin M

From the manual:

VIO guitar is an instrument combined with VGM and HRM.  It features a mellow and unique tone, and allows the timbre to be adjusted by adding harmonics.  Polyphonic pitch shift can also be used.



chrish

I was  recently playing with the vio-guitar on my vg8s1  (which I purchased new in the late 90's at a store discount) and then I checked out this tread the same day. To my ears, this patch, after some simple tweeking, has a vocal quality to it. I was surprised to learn that vio wasn't included in the VG88 or the vg99. I think it is a cool idea if this became a seperate pedal, because I agree that the vio has an instrument quality to it. I like to use my vg8 as a sort of addition to extended harmonic content with my guitar and to add the initial attack transcient to rom samples trigged by a split hex pickup signal (US20) from my gr50.

For example, I  use the vio-guitar vocal quality and add that to a vocals rom patch on my Korg AD. Having the quick responce time of the vg8 kind of makes up for the latency problem associated with the midi signal of the gr50, triggering my other synth modules.

I really don't mind the fact that there are some limitations with the midi triggering rom modules from the gr50 as I get to expand my guitar technique. To me, the vg8 was indeed a guitar synth even though roland did not call it that.

I've been checking out this site lately, as I have just recently discovered it while looking into buying a boss sy300. Would the sy-300 be able to get a simular sound as the vio patch? I guessing not, after reading some of the threads here, but don't know for sure.

Of course, I'm really just into the lights, displays and switches that all this gear has :D.

Awesome site indeed!

Headless68

Not tried the SY yet but none of the other roland gear (or anything else for that matter) can do the Vio sound
Worth keeping a VG8 around for - I just wish it was half the weight with twice the screen size :-)

Tony Raven

Offline, a friend offers the thought that "VIO"/"Vio" stands for "virtual instrument orchestral" -- dunno if there's anything there, but it does seem to frame the sounds rather well.