Godin xtSA with broken piezo saddle

Started by Vade, August 29, 2014, 04:31:30 PM

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Vade

Just picked up a used 2013 xtSA Koa ($700) for a three day evaluation since I wasn't going to do anything serious sitting in a Bob Evan's over coffee; was hoping for the best but it was not to be. The D string piezo is bad somewhere. Not being picked up by either 1/4" or 13 pin route. 1/4" is just dead and GP-10/13 pin is bouncing between strings when tuning or setting sensitivity for D string so ghosting seems like a possibility. The other strings seem fine with the piezo R setting and ST scale. Gently moving wires doesn't seem to lead to intermittent connection as you might have with an open in the wire. Lifting the string to look under saddle and continuity test now. Kinda fun actually but am I in over my head? Ummm...yeah.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#1
Read this Godin xtSA threads which details what to look for - often one of the Piezo saddle coax cables gets a "solder short"

Godin xtSA
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3912.0 

Godin Factory Mis-Wiring issues (RMC Piezo Internal)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5838.0


In the photo below, the RMC Piezo Saddle cable sequence on the Internal PCB Solder pads are: (Top to Bottom)

6  (low E string)
5  (A string)
4  (D string)
3  (G  string)
2  (B string)
1  (high E  string)






[/b]

I contacted Richard McClish at RMC Pickups and provided him the photo of the PCB and explained your problem of "B" and "G" piezo saddle wires being installed wrong at the Godin factory and he replied:

"
String 1 is the lowest in the picture. String 6 is the highest one.

Note that the cable braids don't need to all be soldered to the board.
The cables contact one another along their length and so the swapped
cables can be left unconnected at the braids [PC Board]. One can wrap the braids
with a piece of bare copper wire and solder the wire to one of the
Ground pads on the p.c.b. This reduces heat damage and facilitates
future servicing.

I recommend adding leaded (Sn63 or Sn62) solder to the joints/pads
in order to remove the signal wires with minimum heat damage to the holes.
The word is : save the p.c.b.

http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/solder/leaded/sn63-pb37-4880/

I hope the information provided will be helpful. If you have any further
questions about RMC products, please don't hesitate to contact me.




Best regards,

RMC   Richard McClish"




Print out these instructions and provide to your local Guitar Repairman.



RMC Piezo Saddle Output Sensitivity Range (dB) (see color code band on wire)
----------------------------------------------------------
6.0 - 6.49 Blue
5.5 - 5.99 Green -Green
5.0 - 5.49 Green 
4.5 - 4.99 Yellow-Yellow 
4.0 - 4.49 Yellow 
3.5 - 3.99 Orange-Orange 
3.0 - 3.49 Orange 
2.5 - 2.99 Red-Red 
2.0 - 2.49 Red 
1.0 - 1.99 Brown 
0.0 - 0.99 Black
-0.0 - 0.99 Black-Black
-1.0 - 1.99 Black-Brown
-2.0 - 2.99 Black-Red
-3.0 - 3.99 Black-Orange
-4.0 - 4.99 Black-Yellow




The good news  - you have a "post August 2011" recent RMC PolyDrive IV Preamp board with all the latest updates for improved Tracking for Roland systems


Vade

And the cavalry arrives! Thanks Elantric; I'll look over that post and try to figure out how to proceed. The seller's a real nice guy and is working with me to get this resolved. It may be we can send it in for a warranty repair and I'm not doing any more than looking it over before I find out. It's a beauty and I made sure it was going to have the right RMC board before I headed out to pick it up; I included the dating in the first pic as I knew you'd want to know. Off to do my homework!
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Vade

#3
The only fix I'm seeing involves repairing a factory defect but that doesn't seem to apply here. The seller is sure that the piezo D string worked at one time because he played the piano lead from Desperado before changing out the pickups; original pups were then reinstalled. Seller will let me return guitar, ask RMC if they'll cover it under warranty, or send me $150 to cover the repair. It's been over a year so I'm thinking that Godins warranty on electronics has expired. I don't mind doing a bit of work and learning but I've zero experience troubleshooting boards like the RMC. So a loose wire or saddle replacement seems like not a big deal but if the RMC board has failed...

P.S. Seller has emailed McClish at RMC.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#4
Like I said , this is a common fault (even one of my "new" xtSA had one dead piezo on D string).

Gently Re-heat the soldered connection where coax cable enters the PC board (see pic above) typically resolves the problem.

find a RMC repair center from the list on the RMC Pickups site.
www.rmcpickup.com/authorized_installers.htm

Vade

#5
I'm afraid I'm not following on this one. The D string was working for months and after some modification; now it's not. Wouldn't that fault have been there from the very first?

At any rate I may not understand why but it sounds like an easy fix and good news so thanks. I'll look for someone locally and if not I'll check out that list of RMC repair people.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#6
Poor factory solder joint can fail at any time - like yours has.

Vade

Thanks for the clarification on that. I've put a call in locally to a musician who solders for a living and we'll see if he's comfortable with a delicate repair.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

sixeight

You can also try cleaning the failing saddle with pure alcohol. I have had the xtsa in the past, but sold it as it could not deal with my sweaty palm. D-string was most susceptible to drop-outs...

Vade

#9
Thanks to all for the advice on getting the D string working. I resoldered the D wire at the board without effect. Turns out I needed to do more than just wiggle the wires from the piezos to find an open. I used a screwdriver to probe the wire 2 mm from the D string piezo and got an intermittent connection. I manually pushed the wire up into the saddle and it's been working just fine since then. I'm not convinced the connection is as solid as I'd like and worry that it might fail although it has not done so in three days of playing. I'll probably order a replacement if I can find one but other than that I'm the happy owner of an xtSA. I'll be adding a MagLok to help with the tuning stability and my trusty FTP. Cheers!

Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Panchi Maldonado

#10
Alguien sabe con exactitud cual de todos estos piezo le corresponde a la primera cuerda e 010 de la Godin xtSA? la tengo rota y necesito saber cual es la correcta que debo comprar. ESTARIA MUY AGRADECIDO SI ALGUIEN ME DA UNA MANO EN ESTO.


Piezo LGXSA


piezoeléctrico. Se adapta a la Godin LGXSA. Antes de ordenar y seleccionar su color, por favor, lea las siguientes instrucciones para ayudar a determinar qué color se necesita. Todos los de piezoeléctricos están codificados por color. El color se encuentra en el cable y es o bien un conjunto de código 1 de color o códigos de color 2. Estos colores determinan el nivel de salida de cada piezo. Si es necesario sustituir un solo piezoeléctrico, es muy recomendable que pedir el mismo color exacto que se utiliza como su conjunto de colores actual. Si el cambio de los 6 de piezoeléctricos, cualquier código de color funcionará siempre y cuando todos 6 son el mismo código de color.
Db código de color de 
6,0 a 6,49 Azul 
5,5-5,99 Verde-Verde 
5,0-5,49 verde 
4,5-4,99 amarillo-amarillo 
4,0-4,49 Amarillo 
3.5 a 3,99 Naranja-Orange 
3.0 a 3.49 Naranja 
2.5 a 2.99 rojo-rojo 
2.0 a 2.49 Red 
1.0 a 1.99 Marrón 
0.0 a 0.99 Negro
-0.0 a -0.99 Negro-Negro
-1.0 a -1,99 Negro-Brown
-2.0 a -2.99 Black- rojo
-3,0--3,99 Negro-Naranja
-4,0--4,99 Negro-amarillo
Tenga en cuenta que algunos colores no están disponibles en este momento y no pueden ser hechas a medida o pre-ordenado. Si otros colores disponibles, los añadiremos.


--


Started by Panchi Maldonado
Someone knows which of these piezo accuracy corresponds to the first string and 010 XTSA Godin? I have it broken and need to know what the right that I should buy. VERY GRATEFUL IF SOMEONE WOULD GIVE ME A HAND IN IT.
http://www.godinguitars.com/store/enlarge/Piezo_pbgs14.jpg
piezo
piezo LGX-SA


piezoelectric. It is Godin LGX-SA fits.
Before ordering and selecting your color, please read the following instructions to help determine which color is needed.
All piezo are color coded.
The color is in the cable and is either a set of color code 1 or 2.
These color codes colors determine the output level of each piezo.
If you need to replace a single piezoelectric, it is advisable to ask the exact same color used as the current color set.

If the change of the piezo 6, any color code work as long as all 6 are the same color code.

RMC Piezo Saddle Output Sensitivity Range (dB) (see color code band on wire)
6.0 - 6.49 Blue
5.5 - 5.99 Green -Green
5.0 - 5.49 Green 
4.5 - 4.99 Yellow-Yellow 
4.0 - 4.49 Yellow 
3.5 - 3.99 Orange-Orange 
3.0 - 3.49 Orange 
2.5 - 2.99 Red-Red 
2.0 - 2.49 Red 
1.0 - 1.99 Brown 
0.0 - 0.99 Black
-0.0 - 0.99 Black-Black
-1.0 - 1.99 Black-Brown
-2.0 - 2.99 Black-Red
-3.0 - 3.99 Black-Orange
-4.0 - 4.99 Black-Yellow


Please note that some colors are not available at this time and can not be tailored or pre -ordered.
If other colors available, add it.

Elantric

#11
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8187.msg91836#msg91836
Tome una foto de su placa PCB interna RMC y ver si detecta códigos de color alambres

Take a photo of your internal RMC PCB board and see if you detect color codes wires



read here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12199.0

Use Google translate (English to Spanish)
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=en&tl=es&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vguitarforums.com%2Fsmf%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D12199.0&edit-text=

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8187.msg91836#msg91836

RMC Piezo COLOR CODE

For ensuring the most even string-to-string response in a multiple-saddle pickup, we pioneered in the industry and developed a pickup category system based on a calibrated mechanical-excitation process. The pickup saddles in each set are matched to within ±1/4dB of one another for output power, phase, frequency response and total harmonic distortion. The different categories (identified by color bands on the pickup leads) are indicative of small variations in manufacturing that we regulate through the matching process.

In order to obtain the best string-to-string evenness in every guitar, the installer or repairman must always use saddles of the same color code within a set.

When providing individual replacement saddles, we need to know the color code of the damaged saddles in order to provide matching replacements. This code is painted on each pickup cable about an inch away from each saddle. It consists of one or two color bands. We need to know the number of bands and their color. When purchasing replacement sets, the same color code information is useful, but not necessary.

Current color codes:
Black
Black/Black
Brown
Brown/Brown
Red
Red/Red
Orange
Orange/Orange
Yellow
Yellow/Yellow

We have produced some of the following codes in the past, but they are no longer in production and we have depleted our inventory of those :
Green
Green/Green
Blue
Purple

OLDER INSTRUMENTS (when applicable)
If the RMC pickup system in your instrument is more than 5 years old, the remaining saddles in the instrument may not match exactly with the new replacement saddle(s) although the color code is the same. This is because the older saddles have been exposed to more temperature & humidity changes, string changes and general wear & tear. For this reason, in older instruments, it's best to order a complete set of 6 saddles so all the saddles will be properly matched and the performance will be fully restored as in a new instrument.





====

RMC Piezo CÓDIGO DE COLORES

Para asegurar la respuesta más uniforme-cadena a cadena, en una camioneta de múltiples silla de montar, que fue pionera en la industria y ha desarrollado un sistema de clasificación de recogida basado en un proceso mecánico-excitación calibrado. Las sillas de montar de recogida en cada conjunto se hacen coincidir con una tolerancia de ± 1/4 dB entre sí a la potencia de salida, la fase, la respuesta de frecuencia y la distorsión armónica total. Las diferentes categorías (identificados por bandas de color sobre los cables de recogida) son indicativos de las pequeñas variaciones en la fabricación que regulamos a través del proceso de correspondencia.

Con el fin de obtener la mejor uniformidad cadena-a-cadena en cada guitarra, el instalador o reparador siempre deben utilizar sillas de montar del mismo código de color dentro de un conjunto.

Al proporcionar sillas de montar de recambio individuales, necesitamos saber el código de color de las sillas de montar dañadas con el fin de proporcionar reemplazos a juego. Este código está pintado en cada cable recogida alrededor de una pulgada de distancia el uno del sillín. Se compone de una o dos bandas de color. Necesitamos saber el número de bandas y su color. Al comprar conjuntos de reemplazo, la misma información del código de color es útil, pero no necesario.

códigos de colores actuales:
Negro
Negro Negro
marrón
Marrón Marrón
rojo
Rojo rojo
naranja
Naranja / Naranja
Amarillo
Amarillo / Amarillo

Hemos producido algunos de los siguientes códigos en el pasado, pero ya no están en producción y hemos agotado nuestras existencias de los:
Verde
Verde verde
Azul
Púrpura

MAYORES INSTRUMENTOS (en su caso)
Si el sistema de captación de RMC en su instrumento es más de 5 años de edad, las sillas que quedan en el instrumento pueden no coincidir exactamente con la nueva silla (s) de reemplazo, aunque el código de color es el mismo. Esto se debe a que las sillas de montar de edad han estado expuestos a más cambios de temperatura y humedad, cambios de cuerda y el desgaste general y desgarros. Por esta razón, en los instrumentos de mayor edad, lo mejor es pedir un conjunto completo de 6 sillas de montar por lo que todas las monturas serán reconocerse correctamente y el rendimiento serán restauradas totalmente como en un nuevo instrumento.

e-mail us at info@rmcmusic.com

or write us at

RMC Pickup Co.
1739 Addison #15
Berkeley CA 94703

http://www.rmcpickup.com/authorized_installers.htm


Zagert Hnos   
Patricio   
54-11-4450-4475   
54-11-4450-4081   i
nfo@guitarraszagert.com   
Buenos Aires   
ARGENTINA   
   
Mario Jorge Passos   
Mario   
55-21-8103-6817      
mj@passos.net   
Rio de Janeiro   BRASIL
   
Tercio Ribeiro   
Mauro   
55-21-259-1675
55-21-259-1675      
Rio de Janeiro   BRASIL   

SUS Four Brasil   
Rui or Renata   
55-11-2157-4040   
55-11-2501-0647   
rui@susfour.com.br   
Sao Paulo   BRASIL
   
Rick Udler
Rick   
55-11-3773-8330      
rick.udler@gmail.com   
Sao Paulo   BRASIL

Elantric

e-mail us at info@rmcmusic.com

or write us at

RMC Pickup Co.
1739 Addison #15
Berkeley CA 94703

http://www.rmcpickup.com/authorized_installers.htm


Zagert Hnos   
Patricio   
54-11-4450-4475   
54-11-4450-4081   i
nfo@guitarraszagert.com   
Buenos Aires   
ARGENTINA   
   
Mario Jorge Passos   
Mario   
55-21-8103-6817      
mj@passos.net   
Rio de Janeiro   BRASIL
   
Tercio Ribeiro   
Mauro   
55-21-259-1675
55-21-259-1675      
Rio de Janeiro   BRASIL   

SUS Four Brasil   
Rui or Renata   
55-11-2157-4040   
55-11-2501-0647   
rui@susfour.com.br   
Sao Paulo   BRASIL   

Panchi Maldonado

Aqui envio algunas fotos del piezo roto y si talvez con eso podria decirme el piezo y el codigo del piezo que deberia comprar?

Elantric

#14
Quote
Here I send some pictures of the broken piezo and if perhaps with that could tell me the piezo and piezo code you should buy ?

Sí, es posible

Usted necesita comprar Godin xtSA RMC piezo tipo  Rojo-Rojo

===

Yes it is possible


You require to buy Godin xtSA RMC piezo saddle type  Red/ Red

Godin xtSA RMC Piezo saddle type  Red/Red =  2.5 - 2.99 decibel sensitivity.

Panchi Maldonado

#15
y hay mucha diferencia entre el 2.0 - 2.49 Red  y el 2.5 - 2.99 Red-Red?

and there is much difference between 2.0 - 2.49 Red and 2.5 - 2.99 Red -Red ?

Elantric

#16
Should be adequate - you can compensate by adjusting the GK Processor GK String Sensitivity settings

Debe ser adecuada - se puede compensar mediante el ajuste de la configuración del procesador de sensibilidad GK cadena GK

Panchi Maldonado

#17
ok Muchas gracias por tu tiempo y tu respuestas rapidas y concretas. :) :) :)

ok Thank you for your time and fast and concrete answers.

Elantric

#18
¡De nada! ¡Buena suerte!  :)


Gracias por compartir la lista completa de nivel de decibelios de color RMC Piezo - nunca he tenido acceso a esta información antes. 


Ambos hemos aprendido nueva información en la actualidad.


----

You are welcome!

Thank you for sharing the complete RMC Piezo color decibel level list  - I never had access to this information before!
We both have learned new information today


RMC Piezo Saddle Output Sensitivity Range (dB) (see color code band on wire)
6.0 - 6.49 Blue
5.5 - 5.99 Green -Green
5.0 - 5.49 Green 
4.5 - 4.99 Yellow-Yellow 
4.0 - 4.49 Yellow 
3.5 - 3.99 Orange-Orange 
3.0 - 3.49 Orange 
2.5 - 2.99 Red-Red 
2.0 - 2.49 Red 
1.0 - 1.99 Brown 
0.0 - 0.99 Black
-0.0 - 0.99 Black-Black
-1.0 - 1.99 Black-Brown
-2.0 - 2.99 Black-Red
-3.0 - 3.99 Black-Orange
-4.0 - 4.99 Black-Yellow

Panchi Maldonado

una pregunta mas por favor ? para la instalacion de este piezo red/red como debe ser?

Elantric

#20
Quoteone more question please? for the installation of this piezo red / red as it should be?


Con cuidado, no-soldadura defectuosos "/ rojo rojo" cables piezoeléctricos silla de montar en Polydrive PCB para cuerda E, e instale el nuevo reemplazo "Rojo" silla de montar piezoeléctrica en mismo método exacto

Tomar fotos

Carefully un-solder  defective "Red/Red" Piezo saddle wires on Polydrive PCB  for high E string, and install new replacement "Red" piezo saddle in exact same method

Take photos


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12199.0
En la foto de abajo, la secuencia de cable RMC Piezo la montura en las plataformas de soldadura PCB interno son: (de arriba abajo)

In the photo below, the RMC Piezo Saddle cable sequence on the Internal PCB Solder pads are: (Top to Bottom)

6  (low E string)
5  (A string)
4  (D string)
3  (G  string)
2  (B string)
1  (high E  string)


Panchi Maldonado

#21
Yo vivo en Bolivia - La Paz y aqui no has representantes de godin ni de RCM piezo, asi que le pedi a un amigo de Canada Toronto que me compre el piezo red/red 2.5-2.99, y la instalacion la debo hacer aqui con algun tecnico, por eso es que te hacia la pregunta, de como hacerlo.
Porque el piezo llegara a Bolivia en unas dos o tres semanas.
Entonces si tienes toda la informacion referente a la isntalacion, la soldadura, el tipo de soldadura y lo que puedas enviarme, estare muy agradecido por tu ayuda.


I live in Bolivia - La Paz and representatives here have not Godin or piezo RMC, so I asked a friend from Canada Toronto piezo buy my network / network 2.5-2.99, and the installation should I do here with some Technically, that's why you into the question of how.
Because the piezo came to Bolivia in about two or three weeks.
So if you have all the information concerning the isntalación, welding, weld type and you can send me, I will be very grateful for your help.



Elantric

#23

Godin Distributor list
http://www.godinguitars.com/dealerlistintl.htm

Audiomusica S.A.
Ave. Chile - Espana 393
Nunoa,
Santiago 7770380
Chile
Tél: +(56-2) 375 29 00
Fax: +(56-2) 375 29 01
email: info@audiomusica.com
www.audiomusica.com




=======================

Posible referencia servicio


Possible service referral

IEE ELECTRONICS
CALLE JUAN DE LA RIVA 1479
ZONA CENTRO, LA PAZ, 00000
(5912) 220-0713

http://www.ieeelectronics.net/servicio.php

Panchi Maldonado

En Chile pregunte y me dijeron que podria tardar casi un año y no tenian idea de los codigos y colores de los piezos, los de IEE en Bolivia podrian ayudar con la soldadura, pero creo que es muy recomendable explicarles que tipo de soldadura y a que temperaturas deberian hacerlo. Por todo esto te pedia esas recomendaciones del soldado del cable del piezo para poder indicarle yo al tecnico como debe hacerlo y asi obtener un buen resultado.