For those of You a Getting Gigs and Having a Turnout... Tips?

Started by Threeleggedyoyo, July 31, 2013, 10:56:43 PM

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Toby Krebs

Back in the days of Journeys domination of the airwaves and MTV I was one of the few male vocalists around here who could sing those kinds of  tunes well and that kept me busy. It was a pain in the ass and a lot of training and physical effort to sing like that but I did it because I needed to work. If I was a young solo performer now I would sing all the Dave Mathews and Bruno Mars etc...I could do a passable job on l. Once people hear you sing something they are familiar with they will listen to you do a few other things. That is how it works. Develop a sense of when the audience is growing restless and or uninterested in what you are doing and bring them back "home" with a familiar tune and some humorous shtick. I also apply this to my solos when I am playing  a tune that is a bit "outside". When I feel the audience drifting away from me I bring them back "home" with a blues lick and they feel relieved and stay connected to your performance. Guys like John Coltrane and Charlie Parker etc...didn't give a "blank" about the audience. They just made their art and did what they wanted. I realized a long time ago that I was never going to be a "Coltrane" so I started entertaining people and doing a little of what I liked too. The art of compromise is an art indeed. The great jazz guitarist Jim Hall was once asked if he felt some jazz artists had "sold out" because they made a few commercial types of records. Mr. Hall responded by saying" Where the hell do I sign up to Sell Out?".

A914Man

After only 37 years, I'm almost as good as I thought I was when I was 21

mockchoi

Quote from: Threeleggedyoyo on July 31, 2013, 10:56:43 PM
Hey guys.

Been working hard on my set for about a year. I feel like I'm performing pretty well. But I don't know how to get shows, and more importantly, I  don't know how to get people to come out to them.

I had a show a couple weeks ago with three other bands. My opportunity to promote the show was limited, but the turnout was limited, too... whenever I talk to places about performing, they seem pretty open to me playing. But their attention always immediately goes to feeling out how many people I can get in the door.

I'm kind of frustrated, because I'm not a party planner. I'm a musician. If I wanted to go into marketing I'd have gone into marketing.

Anyhow, venting aside, apparently this is my job. Tips? I have a Facebook page, YouTube with videos... other than that I don't know how to get people in the door.  ???

I should probably not respond to this.  I'm really afraid it'll sound mean, and I don't like being mean.  But you asked for advice.  And my honest advice is, if you want to book shows, and have people come to them, and get re-booked, you should not do what you do.  I listened to your songs, and I think you're very talented, and I enjoyed listening to them.  But I wouldn't enjoy watching you perform them.  I can't see any way you'd form any kind of connection with an audience working all that stuff.  I can't see how you could incite people to dance and have fun.  It's just too busy.  I think you'd be better off fronting a band.

Just my opinion.  I wish you good luck.

Threeleggedyoyo

Lots of good advice in this thread. Some helpful to my individual situation, and some not, and that's ok.

I kind of want to clarify the focus of it a little more though. When I've played, people have received the music well. It's early on, and of course I always want to improve, but for the moment, the actual performances seem to be going well. People I don't know are telling me they're having a good time. I appreciate the advice about how to put on a good show, but right now, it's not the primary issue.

The issue I'm having is: How do I get people to show up in the first place?

Venues (including ones I've already played at) have received my demos and performances well, and welcome me to come perform. But then they ask me: How many people can you get in the door?

Again, I don't blame them for that per se. I just don't know how I'm supposed to make it happen short of just having a bunch of friends. I feel like I'm kind of in a catch 22. I can't promise people will come to see me when nobody knows who I am. But nobody will know who I am if I can't play anywhere in the first place.

A lot of the advice here revolves around making sure people who come have a good time so they want to come AGAIN. And that's great. But my main question at this point is how do I get them to show up in the first place?


Toby Krebs

Invite people you know.Invite people you don't know. That includes everyone. Friends -relatives -friends of friends-neighbors. Everyone. People at the grocery store-church-any place you frequent.That is how I have built my own fan base and now I have a hard core group of people who will come out and see me almost every time I perform. I created a demand for myself over time.

A914Man

Make handbills with your youtube address and give them to everyone you see.  Put together an email list and do a few bulk emails, facebook posts, tweets, etc.  Go to the club you have booked, the weekend before your gig and hand out your handbills, shake hands, schmooze a little.  Just like connecting with your audience, connect with your prospective audience face to face, and let them know you'll be there next week and you'd like to have them turn out for you.
After only 37 years, I'm almost as good as I thought I was when I was 21

aliensporebomb

#31
The other thing: some of the advice here makes sense for blue collar bars where they want to hear the stuff they grew up with but your stuff fits more into the college/hipster type venues if there are any in your area.  Go for those.

One of the thing we'd do to get a turnout beyond our friends would be making weird posters making it seem like it was something more than it was in a way.  We had two graphic designers in the band so we'd do weird things:



and:



You get the idea.  We got even weirder as time went on.  Stuff like that actually worked because people didn't have a clue what the hell they were going to see.  Curiosity on the part of the listener worked for us.  Then word of mouth once people saw us.

Even though we were an original band we would also play covers that people would either know or never expect to hear so they were happy about that.   

And then we'd befriend every band we played with and ask if we could open for them.  Most of the time it would work.  It got to the point where other bands would then open for us.  Or at least if friends in a band they knew were looking for someone to open they'd point to us.

The one thing I'd suggest with regards to your youtube videos: they're great demonstrations of the looping process but they need to be lit brighter - I think you'd get more views overall if they were brighter. 

My initial youtube videos were dimly lit basement videos but as time went on I'd add more and more lights or better yet daylight so people can see what's what.  The brighter the better. 

One more advise: add a little slap echo on your voice during the singing parts for that whole rock and roll effect for some of your more rockin' songs.  It's surprising what a little slap delay will do for you.





My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Toby Krebs

I was in a band recently that had very cool posters like those all over facebook for our gigs and they created interest.
Very good idea!

chazzer

I just wanted to say that I am amazed at your videos on youtube.
I agree with what most of what I read here about the psychology and all with regards to live gigs. some of it I agree with emphatically.
I don't have anything to add to the excellent suggestions, other than have fun.
you're like a mad scientist with all your effects pedals and so on. really really super cool.
and the fact that you play so many instruments (and so well), and sing. wow. just awesome dude.

Hurricane

The mechanical process :

Flyer's :

My wife taught me about this , she promoted bands in S.F. she was a consummate commercial artist .
She made the process easy for me to replicate an now that she's gone I still use what she showed me
about music and self promotion . Love her now more than ever .

Eye contact : 

Make sure you look into your audiences eyes . Show them confidence , coolness , humility and gratitude as well as your musical virtuosity .

Ad lib :

Every night is special in it's own unique way - be observant and use the " moment " when they pop up .

Always remind the crowd to tip the wait staff .

Practice your ass off helps loads .

Believe it or not I'm into my 62'd year as a musician .
I'm 66 . Yep I started as a child. I play 5 instruments .

HR

Beirne

Forget bars and clubs.
Make friends with local artists/photographers.
Wear a Kabuki mask and perform at avant art gallery openings.
www.intangiblesny.com
www.facebook.com/intangiblesband

dsmmrm

Nice stuff and great comments. I just like to add one. Someone suggested some slap back echo. That's a good idea but I'd go a step further and put some compression, doubling echo (slap back with 15ms delay mixed 60/40 or so to thicken it up) and some ambient reverb on your vocal. It will sit better in the mix.

There are people out there who will say effects on vocals (and sometimes guitar) are "talent substitutes" or summat and should be shunned. Those people are idiots. Effects are like seasonings on fine food. In the right type and quantity they can bring out the true flavor of whatever your serving up. Too much or the wrong stuff can ruin even a great piece of..whatever. I think my analogy just ran out of gas. In any case, none at all is usually pretty bland.

On the other hand drowning a turd with enough seasoning might make it possible to choke it down so there's that. Even I can sing a bit with enough crap added to the mix, but I digress.

HecticArt

Quote from: dsmmrm on February 08, 2017, 09:59:09 AM
Nice stuff and great comments. I just like to add one. Someone suggested some slap back echo. That's a good idea but I'd go a step further and put some compression, doubling echo (slap back with 15ms delay mixed 60/40 or so to thicken it up) and some ambient reverb on your vocal. It will sit better in the mix.

There are people out there who will say effects on vocals (and sometimes guitar) are "talent substitutes" or summat and should be shunned. Those people are idiots. Effects are like seasonings on fine food. In the right type and quantity they can bring out the true flavor of whatever your serving up. Too much or the wrong stuff can ruin even a great piece of..whatever. I think my analogy just ran out of gas. In any case, none at all is usually pretty bland.

On the other hand drowning a turd with enough seasoning might make it possible to choke it down so there's that. Even I can sing a bit with enough crap added to the mix, but I digress.

I think you put just the right amount of pepper on that.

;D

Hurricane

Quote from: Beirne on February 07, 2017, 12:03:10 PM
Forget bars and clubs.
Make friends with local artists/photographers.
Wear a Kabuki mask and perform at avant art gallery openings.

I began doing a duet coffee shop act in the mid 90's and found my niche .
Good crowds , good tippers too , it was  not unusual for there to be $75.00 to $100.00 in the kitty ,
as for the $'s paid by the coffee shop ,  it's O.K. nothing to retire over .

My personal best tip given to me outside of the kitty jar I share with my partner :

  $-100.00 - Oh yeaaaah man ! -
These venues are quite eclectic affairs that allow a guy like me tremendous latitude . I'm
about to begin soloing again , sans the Reel To Reel thanks to technology .

Art studio presentations require a lot of depth in " Standards " I grew up listening to every
type of genre and never had a preferred decade ( my catalog of songs begins with stuff all
the way back to the mid 1800's ) , some decades are replete with great songs 
and others are shallower , that's all , it's all good to me .

This area is extremely " artsy "  In one evening I cover CW - Jazz-Blues , Rock-A-Anything ,
Standards , it's really cool .

Bars I can do with out but will play them if the $'s are there .

HR

.

carlb

Quote from: Hurricane on February 08, 2017, 12:23:36 PM
<...>  In one evening I cover CW - Jazz-Blues , Rock-A-Anything ,
Standards , it's really cool .
HR

So, *both* types of music, and almost anything else too. My type of gigging! (Well for CW only Patsy, Johnny, Chet, Roy, Emmylou, etc. ).

What neck of the woods you gig in? Probably nowhere near here, heh!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

carlb

So far, I've been fortunate to 'get the call' for gigs. But as I retire from working stiff and transition to gigging stiff, I'm going to need to get serious about self-promotion.

Great ideas here, thanks all!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

vanceg

Quote from: Cricket on August 02, 2013, 06:41:30 AM
They are interested in selling alcohol, and most wouldn't care if you stuck a mic up your *** and farted all night if people would come and buy beer while you did it.


I actually saw a show in which someone did this.  Sorry, maybe TMI, but It actually happened.  Granted, I didn't stick around all night and see if people bought beer... but the "performer" was touring this act.  The mic moment was only one part of the act.

Reason I mention this:  Apparently it is all about the  "unique" performance and not the music itself. At least in this "shock and awe" case.

Hurricane

.

Quote from: carlb on February 08, 2017, 12:47:11 PM
So, *both* types of music, and almost anything else too. My type of gigging! (Well for CW only Patsy, Johnny, Chet, Roy, Emmylou, etc. ).

What neck of the woods you gig in? Probably nowhere near here, heh!

Palm Springs Southern California .

It's nice getting back into soloing with out  towing a 10" Reel to Reel .

HR

.

aliensporebomb

#43
In doing solo ambient guitar shows in town I've played all kinds of unusual gigs: coffee shops, gallery spaces of bookstores, science fiction conventions, art crawls, new age festivals, a yoga studio that also did reiki healing, a boutique that sold all kinds of things, seminars, etc.

Then in doing a particular gig I found out there was a whole subculture here in town where people are playing ambient and electronic music.  Blew my mind, I was laboring away by myself for years without being aware of it and they looked like I materialized from deep space or something.



My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Hurricane

Quote from: aliensporebomb on February 08, 2017, 07:27:00 PM
In doing solo ambient guitar shows in town I've played all kinds of unusual gigs: coffee shops, gallery spaces of bookstores, science fiction conventions, art crawls, new age festivals, a yoga studio that also did reiki healing, a boutique that sold all kinds of things, seminars, etc.

Then in doing a particular gig I found out there was a whole subculture here in town where people are playing ambient and electronic music.  Blew my mind, I was laboring away by myself for years without being aware of it and they looked like I materialized from deep space or something.

That's hip , what gear do you employ to get that " Frippertronics type thing going ?

chrish

Quote from: Hurricane on February 09, 2017, 12:12:37 AM
That's hip , what gear do you employ to get that " Frippertronics type thing going ?
if you go to the rc-300 looper section of the forum you will see a thread on frippertronics and a youtube link of todd (aliensporebomb) demoing the technique.

that thread and video changed my musical direction. Thanks shawnb and todd.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6845.msg94133#msg94133




plexified

             Apparently this thread was dropped like a rock 5 years ago yet the situation is changing by the minute so you literally have to reinvent the market you want to participate in. Here is a recent example of what I mean. Actually it too is ongoing and applies to anyone longing to perform live music.
              I have a very talented friend who moved and was starting over with a strong country style in the likes of Chet Atkins, Country standards, some rocking Elvis and Johnny Cash. In his previous local he was a class act that could travel a bit and get gigs with the band he lead. This move left him alone and he made friends in the blues community and society. Started playing sit ins and became intrenched locally. Nothing to write home about. Taking on some solo gigs was a necessity to pay the bills and the never ending 'empty' gig was grinding and relentless. So what did he do?
              He researched the area and found most paying gigs would only afford a solo or duo and a three piece would break even. So he focused on a solo act and began to bring go-pro cams to the shows and eventually a headstock cam on his guitar. No crowds, just nice venues and ambiance. He practiced and expanded his catalog , wrote songs and expanded his production. He began to digitally record the audio and was very pround of his work. He got to be intrigued with youtube and started posting videos of performances showcasing himself at venues without people. The camera didn't recognize the crowd or lack of, so it went on. Eventually he mastered his own approach, but still no crowds at the gigs and no views at youtube. Sound familiar?
                  Its common, because people are increasingly living 'tethered to their devices', might as wall call it 'the device' its morphing society to an ever increasing effect. People don't go to watch NASCAR races anymore, nor watch Baseball, Football in the same way they did. We use to tailgate everything. Today its changed. Many of the venues I see are short lived. Some are now condos. Its changing, Sears is going out of business because of the internet. People decide with their checkbooks. They also decide with the trending habbits. So you have to see both sides of the reality here.
                   The 'baby boomers' are still the largest population component, they are retiring and they want places to go. You have to find where that is. The younger crowd does festivals and mostly social media driven events. Flash mobs would be impromptu events orchestrated in minutes off a 'device' uniting thousands in minutes. I see it all the time with radio stations near me that can do it with one spot on announcement. They know who the people are and how to mobilize them. You have to reinvent yourself as well as your strategy and you have to become an investigator to figure it all out in an ever changing marketplace.
                     My friend and I researched youtube and developed strategies to promote the content and learned how the youtube algorithm works so we literally would 'feed' it. Give it what it wanted based on successful mega youtubers with huge audiences. We figured it out, and my friend grew to 250k . In that process he became a great video editor, live performer and youtuber. He still struggles to book shows. We are now in the process of creating the show. We find venues and put the whole event together at times. You will find their is no shortage of venues when you stop looking for bars and local places to play. Because if you not in LA or Nashville, your choices you can count on one hand.
                      Their is no shortage of VFW halls, American Legions, churches, Hotel banquet halls, fairs etc. You have to look for them. You have to know your crowd and have to market weather you like it or not. Who is gathering in your town, and for what? You have to know these things as previous posters brought up awesome points on examples of this. I live where the sun shines 300 days a year and winters are mild so its an all year active calendar. You have to know the calendar, holidays, events openings, parks, venues. Know where every stage is. This is important, because my friend had no audiences and to him the camera made anywhere a stage, a venue, a performance possibility.
                       A rock drummer named Meytall is a great example of what is possible. A young female drummer. NO band, no gigs, not even enough talent , YET, to make it happen. She did just what I described. Started playing along with songs, honed her craft, shared her videos, went after her market and elevated her craft to playing her music outdoors in the middle of scenic nature productions on her own to get the attention of people when she was ready. She put together a band, millions of followers and created her own venue, fanbase and life. She had to. There were no places for her to play in her town except for at church.
                            So its a massive swing in an ever changing marketplace. I'm involved in NASCAR now and trying to pry the old ,tired and dead marketing practices from a sport in freefall. They are so hard headed they cannot see the changing marketplace from being in the middle of it. Unless they change, the sport is over. Trying to pry these decade old practices that have changed in a few years seems unbelievable to them. Yet the metrics don't lie. You can find out who is tuning in, doing what these days on the internet by age, $spent, the time, day , hour etc. etc. its not that hard. You have to know the environment and use all the tools at your disposal to figure it all out. Businesses are created and designed around two questions for a crafty self starter. How much money do you want to make? How much time for yourself do you want to have? Working backwards from there you can engineer the outcome and wether it will be successful or not.
                                 What I am saying is markets have imploded (music, retail) and people do not know nor understand the markets enough to fix them, or in most cases redesign the business model. It makes me very frustrated. The music industry has NO IDEA what happened and IS happening to it right now. From a factual historical context, business context and social engineering context. I do. If you don't know the story of Freeway Ricky Ross or what really happened with Napster and the war on drugs, its worth the investigation. We are still reeling from it. But maybe, for real, a dozen people actually know the severity of it. The TV series VINYL did a pretty good job catching the vibe, but now the industry is completely destroyed, all of it. It needs to be entirely re designed with a new business model that's up to date, without politics and social engineering.
                                   I know this got a little lengthy, but this is an ongoing topic, you have to be on twitter, facebook, instagram, youtube and your own mailing list to promote yourself and grow an act. You also have to do what I call the 'T-Pain' thing and collaborate. You increase your exposure and workflow with this social experiment. Your involved in social engineering now, not just songwriting and campfire songs. Unless its for fun. And isn't that what its all about anyway?
                                    In the meantime, think about how you can have fun, doing what you love. Watch the movie 'Momentum Generation'. It cronicles the breakout of Surf Culture in the 90's and 2000's and the group of friends that did it together. They had to reinvent the world, and they did.

Elantric

My band at a recent fund raiser in Avila Beach, California