GR-55 Integration

Started by 3dognate, January 28, 2011, 11:59:57 AM

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3dognate

I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss how everyone will be integrating the GR-55 into their stage rigs. As we all start having our devices trickle down to us from brown santa over the next couple of weeks. We should start getting an idea of how to make a pretty efficient and controllable rig.

I am particularly interested in wo you will be handling stage monitoring and integration with another guitar device.

I currently use a Digitech GSP-1101 + Control 2 for my guitar sounds. Up to now I run the 1/4" with no cab sim out of the GSP into a Carvin Power amp and out to a 4x12. I send the XLRs w/ cab sim out to the a small mixer. And send my GR-20 out to a different channel on the same mixer. Then send  the mains mixer a sub mix out of that rig. Now with the V-guitar in the options mix... I suspect I'm going to need to go with a FRFR system (like a powered monitor setup or other) in order to keep the Straight guitar/V-guitar/Synth all in the same monitor mix for my own monitoring... I don't see the 4x12 having too much of a place in the new rig with the GR-55 (I only use it for stage monitoring any way.)

For you guys that are already using FRFR systems for stage monitoring, what are you using?

Patch management is the other big thing... i don't see being able to reduce the # of patches I use any time soon... probably will be adding many new ones... (Gonna have to start numbering the set lists with patch #s... Our cover band has 130+ songs in the repitoire).

Backing track management... We've always avoided click/backing tracks because we don't use in ear monitors. But it looks like it might be manageable with the GR-55 on songs where the backing track / synth track will be handling the song intro and we can just follow along as if it were a live musician. I want to integrate some of this too... wondering how others will handle it.
>>> http://www.tddRocks.com <<<

My live rig consists of:
-Noel Custom Guitars both GK and Ghost Equipped
-Digitech GSP1101 + Control2
-Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth
-EV ELX112P FRFR monitors
-Gator Cases
-Miller High-Life

ddlooping

#1
Hello 3dognate :)

My current set-up is:
- VG-99
- XV5050 sound module controlled by the VG-99 guitar-to-midi
- FC-300
- Traynor K4

My goal in using the GR-55 is to simplify my set-up and to make it easier to carry around.

I have three options in mind for using the GR-55 (live use with 2 covers bands).
All of them share a common factor, a Traynor K4 as my monitor and its XLR outs (if necessary) into the FOH PA:

Option 1)
Using the GR-55 on its own, if I do not have to compromise too much due to its limited effects/routing capabilities.

Option 2)
Using the GR-55 in conjunction with my VG-99:
I'd use the GKP-4 that I've just purchased from sunnyv, a member of these forums, to feed the GK-3 signal to both units.
The GR-55 would be mainly used as guitar synth and a foot controller for the VG-99, the latter taking care of the rest.
I could in theory use up to 4 guitar sounds though.  ;D
They would both be housed in a smallish flight case, the VG-99 being on top (under a removable lid) with the GR-55 underneath (pulled out when in use).

Option 3)
Using the GR-55 in conjunction with my GT-10:
If I don't miss the dual COSM capability from the VG-99 I could use the GR-55 "Guitar out" to feed the GT-10.
The GR-55 would provide synth sounds and COSM guitars, alternate tunings, etc... the GT-10 would take care of the guitar effects.
Not sure how I'd go about flight case for this one.

Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

Elantric

I'm much like ddlooping

My goal will be :

Variax with GK-3
make a harness bundle with the 13 pin with the VDI cable>

13pin feeds GR-55

VDI feeds POD HD500

GR-55 Output feeds HD500 stereo FX return.

HD500 output feeds F.O.H PA or Trayner K4

germanicus

#3
In a similar vein the plan is:

JTV-69 with GK3 pickup -

VDI cable feeds a Pod HD500-

GK3- cable feeds a GR-55-

Guitar out from the Gr55 (modelling guitar output) feeds the Guitar input on the HD500-

Podhd500 main outs goes to my Traynor k4 Channel 1 (stereo)-

Gr55 main outs feed Traynor channel 2 (stereo).

Digitech Jamman Stereo Main outs feeds Traynor Channel 3.

Pod HD500 Headphone out goes to drummers headphone mixer.

Rhythm output on Jamman goes to drummers headphone mixer (this way he can hear my loops with a click track mixed in, the audience only hears the loops).
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

ddlooping

What's feeding the Digitech Jamman? :)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

germanicus

Quote from: ddlooping on January 28, 2011, 03:31:04 PM
What's feeding the Digitech Jamman? :)

Usually nothing, we use it as our rhythm guitarist (the morally ambiguous backing track!). We introduce it as the 4th member of our band, Loopy McJammer.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

ddlooping

Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

paults

I currently use a TC-Electronic G-System, with the VG-99 in one of the loops, and an XV-5050 in another loop. I use a Bose L1 for on stage monitor.   

The TC also is set up for using my Marshall Silver Jubilee half stack, but with my primary gig, (http://www.reaganomics.com ) I have been using the TC/VG/Bose for over a year.  I can hear it better than the Maeshall without being too loud for every one else on stage (we side wash all our onstage amps).

The GR-55 will go into a loop of the TC, and the TC will be the MIDI controller, and it provides both pre and post effects.  I already split the guitar signal out from the 13 pin connector, and return it to the VG, so the lack of mod effects before the amp model in the GR isn't an issue for me.

Mucxh like the others, if the synth sounds suit me (they don't have to be as good as the XV, but are hopefully at least as good with some programming as the JV sounds), the VX-5050 won't be needed.

My old GM-70 has always tracked at least as well as the GR series - if this one is faster,  I'll likely the three (!) I have at home :)   

     

LinzHenderson

Quote from: paults on January 28, 2011, 07:06:35 PM
I currently use a TC-Electronic G-System...VG-99...XV-5050...Bose L1...Marshall Silver Jubilee half stack

Jealous?  Me?  Nah...well, ok, a bit   :'(

;)

musicman65

I currently use a VG99 and FC300 with a Proteus2000 rack mount synth mounted in a custom pedalboard/roadcase. The FC300 has 5 external momentary footswitches and a foot-wheel operated pot mounted in the pedaboard. One switch toggles the FC300 between sysex and the other modes. The others are assignable.

I use the FC300 in sysex mode and send midi control and program change to the synth through the VG99. I also use a Rocktron Banshee voicebox that feeds from one of the VG99 sub outs. I feed a raw mag pup signal from the VG99 guitar out to a Vocalist Live 4 vocal harmonizer too.

My VG99 main 1/4 outs run to the synth which has a mixer input section onboard. The VG99 stereo signal combines with the synth and goes 1/4 line out of the synth to a stereo DI box to the PA. I split the DI signal to a keyboard amp for onstage volume. Earbuds are used for onstage monitoring. I hear through the buds and feel through the amp.

I will have to rethink my strategy with the GR55. There is no  mag out signal so I'll have to do something different with my vocalizer...maybe Elantric's "missing link". The voicebox can be driven from the 1/4 out. I probably won't need an external synth but still can if desire via midi out.

My biggest hurdle is lack of control pedals. I may break out an old Behringer FC1010 midi control pedal and assign it to various funtions like lead boost, toogle various effects, tap tempo, etc. I doubt I could cope without those features.

I have a Motion Sound KP-500SN amp on order. Its 500w of flat clean full range stereo sound in a 48lb combo amp. I can't wait to try it with the GR55! Christmas is coming a little late but Santa is hooking me up!

I'd love to hear some ideas on how others plan to get their rigs running.

musicman65



drbill

I play in the band at church. We meet in a very nice concert hall on a college campus. I always go direct. I plan several possible setups, depending on what sounds I need:

1. minimal: GR-55 -> PA, using only its footswitches
2. more synth: GR-55 + Macbook Pro (MainStage & NI synths) + softstep
3. more guitar: VG-99 + FC-300 + Tube Driver preamp
4. overkill: all of the above. I have a Brian Moore i2.13, so I can potentially have 5 guitar signals feeding however many effect/amp chains I can get from the -55, -99 & Guitar Rig.

On the rare occasion that I need to use an amp, I have a Tech21 power engine. It may turn out that I so rarely need the -99 that I will sell it.
GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

SLICK

Current setup:

guitar to GK2 pickup to GR-30. The GR-30 guitar out goes to the GT-10 guitar input. The synth of the GR-30 is placed in the GT-10 loop along with a Blackout effectors Musket Fuzz (for some analogue goodness). There is also an external dual foot switch set to tap tempo and hold for the synth sounds. The GT-10 MIDI out goes to the GR-30 MIDI in so that I only have to use the GT-10 for patch selection and control. If I have the space I sometimes pop a Digitech Jamman at the end of the chain as the GT-10 looper is almost unusable.
Everything goes mono to the front of whatever guitar amp I'm using, usually a Laney LC30 II

Planned setup:
Guitar to GK3 to GR-55 to Amp or PA.  :o

Im pretty skeptical that I will be happy giving up all of the flexibility of my current set up but I'm willing to scarify for the ease and robustness of using a single box.

Got one on order so time will tell ;)
Parker fly deluxe,
Roland GR-55,
Laney LC30II

Albert

First post on this forum. Really looking forward to playing with the GR-55. I'm planning on using the GR-55 into my M13 into DI into the PA. This will give me the benefit of using the GR-55 for guitarsounds (modelling etc) and synths while adding the versatility of the effects of the M13. I'm hoping to use the M13 to change patches on the GR-55 and use the taptempo on the M13 to tap the tempos on the GR-55. We'll see how it works out though.

gumtown

I have a simular setup to Slick, with a bass with the GK-3B, and a guitar with a GK-2A.
A Roland GR-20, with the guitar out going to the Boss GT-10B input,
the GR-20 L/mono output going to the GT-10B S/R Return, inserted to the start of GT-10B channel B.
Any unused effects normally used for the analog pickup are placed in channel B for synth effects,
usually with some fancy sort of assign to the EXP pedal.
Both units are midi connected to each other both directions, so that any patch change one unit makes, the other will follow,
including the GK S1 and S2 buttons.
For practice, it's GT-10B stereo to a P.A.
For gigs it's GT-10B Left to Marshall bass stack and Right to P.A. desk.

When i get the GR-55, i am hoping it will replace the GR-20 and GT-10B, (and the GT-10 i have too)
because what i have takes up too much floor space, and is rather heavey, all being semi-permanently mounted on a custom pedal board.
Want to simplify my setup, reduce the footprint, and benefit from the modelling extras..


and the inter-connecting wiring

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Jim Williams

I currently have my VG-99 mounted on my mic stand and another stand for my laptop that I use for my NI instruments and other soft synths. I control both with FC-300 and all goes out my 1/4 outputs to a stereo channel on the board. I am very pleased with the sound I get but it's alot of cable to setup.

I am aware that the GR-55 has some limitations, but for my needs I think it will do nicely. Most of my guitar sounds are amp model delay reverb and EQ. My alternate tunings and harmonization patches are mostly made just for me to play with. In my live shows I use some alternate tunings on my six string models but rarely on 12 string models.

I plan to use my GR-55 as a stand alone piece to simplify my setup...I am considering a stereo volume pedal to free up that controller and from there into the mixer. I will be using the same monitoring system, My Tech 21 power 60's.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Vic1iful

Won't you miss your soft synths?

Jim Williams

with 2 channels of 910 sounds I should be happy. plus it seems to have a very editable synth section and I should be able to reproduce most of the vst sounds. I plan on using them in the studio with my VG-99. I just want to simplify my live setup.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

ddlooping

Welcome to the forums. Albert. :)

Gumtown, I guess your current set-up is what mine would look like if I decided to use the GT-10 with the GR-55.
I would probably use the GR-55's main stereo out though.
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

paults

Quote from: LinzHenderson on January 28, 2011, 08:24:56 PM
Jealous?  Me?  Nah...well, ok, a bit   :'(

;)


LOL! I've been doing this for quite awhile, so the upgrade path to this set up was a gradual one.  My Marshall head was only a couple of years old when I got it, and was really cheap at the time, because it looked so much like the small box solid state heads they were selling.

Much like this thread about gear consolidation because of a new product, my G-System replaced all this:
TC G-Force
Rackmount MIDI analog loop switcher
MIDI merger
MIDI to Relay convertor (for amp channel switching)
GCX Ground Control MIDI pedal

Selling all stuff back then more than paid for the G-System, too :)


sonnyv

i could use some advice on my setup. The 55 will be used for recording and live at home, so portability is not an issue. The 55's left and right synth will output to a stereo PA. The COSM guitar output, however, is still up in the air, as it has been for about the past 10 years of VG experimenting. I output my vg-8 to about a dozen amps. For the 55, i will start with an 80 watt, 2 channel power amp. My questions:

1. To pre-amp or not to pre-amp. Should i try to warm up the output with a tube pre-amp or let the COSM modeling do its own thing?

2. for widest range, i'd like to work with a 15", 12", 4", and horn speaker. Should i use a crossover to send the left power output to the 4" and horn (8 ohm each connected parallel) and right power output to a 15" and 12" (8 ohm each connected parallel)? If so, can anyone suggest the frequency and other specifications for the crossover i should use?

Or, instead of a crossover, how about a stereo EQ into the power amp to cut the bass and treble, respectively? It would add more expense and noise but add flexibility in regards to frequency separation/selection. (probably, the crossover would be better if i could get it right).



gumtown

Quote from: sonnyv on January 30, 2011, 12:43:37 PM
1. To pre-amp or not to pre-amp. Should i try to warm up the output with a tube pre-amp or let the COSM modeling do its own thing?
With the GR-55, you have options, i would try a mix of both, the stereo outs can carry the amp/cab simulated mix of analog and modelled guitar plus the synths.
The with Guitar output you can select a mix of analog pickup or modelled guitar, which will bypass the amp/cab simulations and effects, so an external guitar amp would be required here.
You will be able to compare the natural guitar amp tone to the COSM simulated tone from your P.A.
Quote from: sonnyv on January 30, 2011, 12:43:37 PM
2. for widest range, i'd like to work with a 15", 12", 4", and horn speaker. Should i use a crossover to send the left power output to the 4" and horn (8 ohm each connected parallel) and right power output to a 15" and 12" (8 ohm each connected parallel)? If so, can anyone suggest the frequency and other specifications for the crossover i should use?

I would place the 15" in a cabinet of it's own and use an active crossover with the 15" running from 40Hz to 200Hz.
The 12", 4" and horn in a cabinet, i would use a passive crossover with frequencies of 200~1kHz for the 12", 1kHz to 2.5kHz for the 4" and 2kHz HPF for the horn. being supplied from the active crossover > amp  200Hz HPF.
The passive crossover would typically be a domestic stereo one if you are using low wattage (<150watts)
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

sonnyv

#21
thanks for the helpful info, gumtown.

1. i pulled the hummbuckers from my gibson explorer (crazy, i know) so my guitar out will be all modeled. but i'm wondering if a modeled tube amp will suffice without adding some real tube pre-amp before the power amp.

2. the frequency ranges you specify are particularly helpful. i'll do some research on active crossovers to determine the benefits in regards to the 15". For the other 3 speakers i assume i could pull a 3-way from just about any old speaker cabinet. The 12" is a celestion vintage 30 guitar speaker so i assume your suggestion of 200 - 1k is good, unless it should be expanded, being the best speaker of the lot. Keeping in mind this signal will be all modeled guitar, i wonder how much action the tweeter and horn will actually see.

ddlooping

Quote from: sonnyv on January 30, 2011, 03:30:40 PM
... i'm wondering if a modeled tube amp will suffice without adding some real tube pre-amp before the power amp.

I don't think there's a general consensus as to whether tubes are needed or not.
I have personally done without (VG-99) and haven't missed them. :)
I think it's a question of comparing the two options and see which one you prefer. ;)
Diaz Guitars (work in progress)

sonnyv

thanks, dd. "without" sounds good to me -- i hope ;)

ddlooping

Diaz Guitars (work in progress)