GR-55 - R and B Horns

Started by concordal, June 07, 2012, 09:13:36 PM

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concordal

Can anyone provide advice on how to create a patch for an R & B Horn Ensemble?  Attached is a clip from Sam & Dave with the typical R&B horns.  To my ear the original sounds like sax + trombone.

Here is what I've already tried:  -The built-in ensemble brass: 24-1, 24-2 and 24-3
                                               - Combinations of two sax tones on PCM1 and PCM2
                                               - Combinations of sax and trombone tones on PCM1 and PCM2

I also tried adjusting "Pitch Fine" so that the two tones are distinguishable.

But none of these attempts sound realistic.  I do appreciate that getting the exact original sound is not possible but I'd be happy with something that sounds realistic.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Player99

I would like this as well...

concordal

On re-listening to the original post I realize that the Sam and Dave horn section sounds like 2 (or more) saxes an octave apart. 

I've tried many combinations of the GR-55 saxes using both PCM1 and PCM2, setting one an octave down.  The results were not great.  The best result so far used 411 BARITONE SAX and 379 BRASS1.  But best of the worst still doesn't cut it.

How is it that the trumpets and the trombones sound so so realistic and individual sax tones are good, too -- but play two saxes at once and it hurts my ears!

Has anyone else taken a stab at  R and B saxophones?

Player99

I have set up 2 patches, the first with 379 Brass 1 and 411 baritone sax.

The second 407 Tenor sax 1 and 411 Baritone sax.

I have also muted the high E and B strings which helps get rid of unwanted squacks and squeeks. Not perfect by anymeans but when played with my guitar it does help fill in and give the illusion. I wish they sounded like your sample.


concordal

Many thanks for having a go at this, Player99. 

I wish my own attempt sounded like my sample!  That's because my sample is actually a clip from the original Sam and Dave recording, not from the GR-55 :)

Let's hope that someone else on the forum who has looked at this will provide some advice.


Player99

Do you think the Sam and Dave horns are an octave apart or are they playing 2 notes from a chord or triad? Or are they actually playing the same note but with different sounding sax or whatever horns they are using? I don't think they are an octave apart. If not, and they are playing different notes from a chord or arpeggio, we are sort of screwed because there is no intelligent pitch shifter that will allow for 3rds, fifths, major, minor etc.

concordal

Player99, it does indeed sound like an octave to me.  I tried Baritone Sax and Tenor sax in the same octave and it just didn't sound right. 

You may very well be correct, though.  If it is two instruments, as you suggest, it might still be possible to do this for some simpler R and B riffs.  The main riff in Hold on, I'm Coming is straightforward enough that it can be played on two strings without shifting to adjacent strings.  Let Instrument 1 be assigned to string 1 and have the volume on all other strings set to zero.  And similarly for Instrument 2.

Attached is the tab for this particular Riff in A using thirds without shifting strings.  The Riff doesn't sound right to me, but it's just to demonstrate that such a workaround might help.  Perhaps 5ths? 

Player99

Bump! Is this it? Nobody has any better input?

duffy


Elantric

#9
Wow - I Love that Sam & Dave show from Germany in 1967



Great stuff!
Heres more


Catch the whole 12 song playlist here
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL314DDA96964AC144&feature=plcp

papabuss

#10
Hi Elantric
Where was this great video recorded in Germany (when I was 13) ;)
FENDER STRATOCASTER (1974); BRIAN MAY RED SPECIAL; VG 99; GR 55; Yamaha DX 7

Music was my first love and it will be my last (JOHN MILES)

Elantric

i was 12

QuoteThe incomparable Sam & Dave, perhaps the best live act that has ever existed, live in Offenbach, Germany, 1967. Unbelievably joyous performance, the kind of live show that just doesn't exist anymore. Broadcast features a few guest musicians, including Linda Carr, Arthur Conley, and Lee Dorsey playing some tunes backed by the Sam & Dave orchestra. They're worth watching too.

papabuss

Then I'm one year older than you... ;D
Do you know in which town it was? ;)
FENDER STRATOCASTER (1974); BRIAN MAY RED SPECIAL; VG 99; GR 55; Yamaha DX 7

Music was my first love and it will be my last (JOHN MILES)

whippinpost91850


Elantric

#14
QuoteAnd I was 17 :'(

Cool! -Old enough to see Hendrix Live!


or this band I forgot

















I was at this show in LA


and






----









concordal


There's so much nostalgia in these replies. 

But I'm still hoping for some advice on how to create an R & B Horns patch.  See first post on what I've tried so far.  That resulted in R & B - NOT.g5l , attached.

To provide some motivation, also attached are three short clips of some of the finest R & B Horns around.  Has anyone on the forum either made something similar or can suggest what can be done to R & B - NOT  to make it more realistic?  Any advice appreciated.

Sedgewick

Concordal:

I use two different patches for R&B.  One is all brass ( for knock on wood ), the other is brass and sax ( Midnight Hour ).

For the opening of each song I use an E shaped chord using the four center strings.  For octave sections, I just use the 3rd and 5th strings, two frets apart .  You will find the low E string is turned off to avoid unwanted "farts".

The CTRL raises the patch one octave if you want to add some extra flavor.
I use these with my GK-3 equipped Gretsch, through a PA.

Give them a try and adjust to suit....


concordal


Many thanks, Sedgewick! I'll give it a try later tonight.  :)

concordal

Sedgewick:  Great patch; much appreciated.

Toby Krebs

I bought my GR55 from a guy who plays in a 10 piece show band who could not get a satisfactory result from it trying to do this very thing! A little more tweaking and it would have worked! Great day for me. Bought it out of the trunk of his car in the GC parking lot!