Live gig Lyrics and MIDI Patch Control

Started by concordal, June 16, 2013, 08:35:02 PM

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concordal

The topic "Using GR55 as a stand alone gigging unit" https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8648.msg63524#msg63524 has a very useful summary from litenesirens on connecting an iPad to send Program Changes the GR-55:

QuoteI'm using the iRig midi by IK Multimedia to control the GR-55, I didn't mention the device in my previous post.  IF you get a newer iPad with the lightning bolt connector you will need a little adaptor cable (I did).  If you have an iPad 2 or 3 with the old Apple 30 pin connector you can just plug the iRig midi straight into the iPad.

This is a fresh topic to avoid hijacking the other thread.  Like litensirens, I'm also using the OnSong iPad app, but I hope to connect to both the GR-55 AND the VG-99.  To complicate matters I'm also using an FC-300 foot controller. 

To make this work I suspect that I need two additional boxes (as well as the IK Multimedia iRig MIDI.)  In the diagram below, Box 1 splits the MIDI messages from OnSong.  Box 2 combines MIDI messages from the FC-300 and Box 1.

                                _____     
        FC-300 (MIDI Out)--->|     |---->GR-55
                             | Box |     MIDI In
               ______        |  2  |
              |      |------>|     |
              | Box  |       |_____|
iPAd -------->|  1   |
              |      |
              |______|------->VG-99                 
                              MIDI In


The MIDI messages would end up going to both the VG-99 and the GR-55 but my sadly outdated Roland US-20 selector will choose which one is active.

I think the MIDI Solutions  2-in 1-out MIDI Merger http://www.midisolutions.com/prodmrg.htm would be what's required for Box 1.

And I think the 1-in 2-out MIDI Thru Box http://www.midisolutions.com/prodthr.htm would be what is required for Box 2.

Can anyone confirm that this is the correct approach and whether these two boxes -- or similar ones -- would work.

Does anyone know of a Bluetooth solution instead of the iRig MIDI?

Many thanks!

deano

#1
Having gigged live with the GR55 for over a year now, I want to share the latest add-on I am using, which has quite frankly revolutionised on stage control.  I picked up the idea from Litesiren in an old thread about midi and Onsong connectivity.

Onsong is an Ipad app that allows you to list your songs, create sets and most importantly, add a midi link out. So with an ipad midi controller such as iRig midi connected to the MIDI-IN on the GR55, you can change your patches in a split second by simply selecting the song you are going to do next.

No more tap dancing in the dark, no more selecting loop mode by mistake, you don't even have to put your patches in sequence.Just select from Onsong and it will change. 

You will need to have the latest 1.50 firmware on your GR55.  All of the midi instructions are in the Roland manual. Once you get your head around the Onsong-GR55 software interface, you can MIDI :D connect a song in 1 minute.  Happy to help anyone who is interested.


Toby Krebs

I will be doing this as soon as I sell a few more "extra" things I don't need now that I have 2 GR55s'. That is a 4 or 5 hundred dollar outlay for  the I-Pad,I-Rig and whatever else I might need but well worth it. Unfortunately for me that is all I will use the I-Pad for but replacing 6 or 7 binders with charts-lyrics etc...will  be very cool. Thanks for posting another success story re" I-Pad / GR55 midi goodness!

deano

Tony

I have two GR55's- one just as a back-up for live. I was toying with having both connected at the same time. Double Bubble so to speak.

What are you doing with your spare?


Gawwuf

Hmmmm... sounds pretty cool.

However I just use the FCB1010, 10 sounds per bank, easy bank changes, 2 foot pedals AND I don't have to bring my iPad on stage!  :)

Your method is a much smaller footprint and if you don't need so many dang sounds, is a great solution.




Elantric

#5
QuoteCan anyone confirm that this is the correct approach and whether these two boxes -- or similar ones -- would work.

I can confirm this is true and should work.

concordal


Litesnsirens

Quote from:  Gawwuf on July 05, 2013, 08:12:00 AM
Hmmmm... sounds pretty cool.

However I just use the FCB1010, 10 sounds per bank, easy bank changes, 2 foot pedals AND I don't have to bring my iPad on stage!  :)

Your method is a much smaller footprint and if you don't need so many dang sounds, is a great solution.

What do you mean if you don't need so many sounds?  Do you mean per song or over the course of the evening? 

mockchoi

#8
Quote from:  deano on July 04, 2013, 05:07:44 AM
Having gigged live with the GR55 for over a year now, I want to share the latest add-on I am using, which has quite frankly revolutionised on stage control.  I picked up the idea from Litesiren in an old thread about midi and Onsong connectivity.

Onsong is an Ipad app that allows you to list your songs, create sets and most importantly, add a midi link out. So with an ipad midi controller such as iRig midi connected to the MIDI-IN on the GR55, you can change your patches in a split second by simply selecting the song you are going to do next.

No more tap dancing in the dark, no more selecting loop mode by mistake, you don't even have to put your patches in sequence.Just select from Onsong and it will change. 

You will need to have the latest 1.50 firmware on your GR55.  All of the midi instructions are in the Roland manual. Once you get your head around the Onsong-GR55 software interface, you can MIDI :D connect a song in 1 minute.  Happy to help anyone who is interested.

Deano, have you played with the arpegiattor in SampleTank (I think that comes with the iRig midi?)  That's what I'm missing most in the GR-55, and I don't want a computer on stage.  Using an iPad though...hmmm.  Being able to change patches on a touch screen sounds pretty awesome as well.

**edit - I see they don't make an iRig Midi for use with the Lightening connector :(

Elantric

#9
Quote**edit - I see they don't make an iRig Midi for use with the Lightening connector



No solution for most iPhones pre IOS8, but this $11 USB MIDI I/O cable works with all iPads, and iPhone 5, iPhone 6 running IOS 7/IOS8
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8393.0


Edit: the cable above jumped up in price to $33 - so might as well get the superior Roland UM-ONE MK2
http://www.amazon.com/Roland-UM-ONE-MK2-MIDI-Interface/dp/B00967UN50/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1460060557&sr=1-1&keywords=Roland+UM-ONE+MK2

mockchoi

Quote from:  Elantric on July 06, 2013, 08:49:21 AM


No solution for iPhones, but this $11 USB MIDI I/O cable works with all iPads
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8393.0

Thanks, Elantric.  The image for the cable is gone from that post though, and you don't reference what it is otherwise :)



Toby Krebs

@ Deano,

I am using the older blue one now as a backup but that may change if I start doing some travelling and shows with the band Follys Pool. Their new album comes out at the end of October and they may want to do some short festival type jogs. If that happens I will dedicate one of them to the material they play as I think the plan is to not use a keyboard player live. For this endeavor I would also use a dedicated tube amp and small pedal board along with the GR55 and an FRFR amp. I played a pretty hardcore jazz gig last nite with only the GR55 and had to cover some Be-Bop/Fusion/Funk and Standards etc... and it went well but I almost wished I had a GR55 just for that purpose. I have a good 15 or so jazz patches but don't use them that often. Using two together does interest me but I would probably use a small tube amp/pedalboard rig with the GR55 before I tried that. Depends on what I need for the particular gig.

Baday12345

The onsong app has a number of reviews that complain that it crashes, etc.   any issues you have encountered?   Is $10 also.

Bluesman

Deano,
Have read with interest your post on using OnSong to send song relevant midi data patch changes to the GR55. If I understand it correctly it will link the GR55 patch to the song selected in On Song, so when changing songs in Set List in On Song the midi data for the patch # moves with it?
I have GR55 that I use with Gumtown's Editor and have just purchased 2 Foot Pedal Air Turn.
Where do I go from here? Any info will be greatly appreciated.
Robert Cray Fender Stratocaster - GK-3
Fender Stratocaster HH
Maton 225ac
Roland GR-55
Line6 Pod HD 500
Samson Auro D412A's Behringer B1800A's
Reason 6

Bluesman

Should have noted in last post that I have an IPad4,  thanks
Robert Cray Fender Stratocaster - GK-3
Fender Stratocaster HH
Maton 225ac
Roland GR-55
Line6 Pod HD 500
Samson Auro D412A's Behringer B1800A's
Reason 6

gandolf

Hey Bluesman,

I am doing same thing you desribed....but instead of OnSong ended up choosing an app called SetListMaker.....but there are are others that do similar thing.

The main reason i didn;t go for OnSong, is that you can;t display your set list and a song chart at the same time....

Also, it had a few different options for showing reminders/notes about songs (+ song charts)...all in all, i thought it was better aimed for a live gig 'info you need to have on stage'.

In contrast, OnSong seems more aimed more at replaceing 'folders of song sheets/charts'....

But either will do what you describe.

Cheers!

Litesnsirens

@ Bluesman, that is exactly right, you just need something like an iRig Midi from IK Multimedia to connect your iPad to your GR-55.  Then you just program the midi data into the song in OnSong.  If anyone gets that far but is having trouble with the midi put a shout back up on here or private message me and I can give your some examples of how to type in the Midi metadata.  You also have to go into the GR-55 and set up the program changes, that was a little tedious.

Litesnsirens

Just to add to this a little more, i just downloaded SetListMaker, the app that gondola, suggested.  It looks pretty cool with a lot of cool functionality. I haven't had a chance to run it through all the midi paces yet...but I'm gonna try to get to it over the next few weeks and also see if I can get it to work with my bluetooth foot pedal.

deano

Sorry for the delay in responding to you all been a few crazy days.

Bluesmann : I haven't used the air pedals but there function I believe is just to turn the pages, I am not sure unless you have a midi connection to the GR55, that it will change to the appropriate patch.

Gandolf: I will checkout setlistmaker- you are right about the set list and song functionality.

Mock Choi: I haven't used the arpegiattor in SampleTank, will try and give a run this weekend.

Tony: The only problem with using the two together for me is about increased footprint. My aim was always to cut down on the gear around my feet:-) Now we can change the patches with the IPad or Iphone apps, perhaps Roland can produce a half size model without the need of all those pedals ?


Witelite

plus 1 for Set List Maker. I have an Axe Fx and a Voice Live Rack and it will change all patches . An absolutely fantastic program.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Litesnsirens

I've now had a chance to test out Set List Maker a little more extensively and I can say now that I think hands down it is a better app.  As far as sending the midi changes it's instant as opposed to OnSong which has a lag, the same thing applies to just choosing the next song, OnSong has a lag and SLM is instant.  So in total the difference in time getting your preset up and ready for the next song is about 1/2 in SLM vs probably 3 seconds in OnSong if you consider both lags.  If you are trying to run two songs together this can make a difference.

For musicians that aren't going to use the lyrics function, you could just leave the setlist of your songs up on the screen and just tap the midi icon in the song bar and it will pull up your preset for you.  You can also touch the notes icon to quickly view any notes that you have made for a specific song. The autoscroll has a better implementation and there are a bunch of auto features that are really helpful.

The only thing I would suggest is to also check out band helper.  It's not released yet but it's coming soon and it's by the same developer as setlistmaker.  If you're just looking for something for your own rig SLM is the app, but if your whole band is looking to get setup there may be some added features in bandhelper that you are interested in.  I only say this because I bought SLM along with all the add-ons and then noticed band helper.  I'm not sure if band helper is the way to go for me yet, but it's always good to be aware of both before you decide.

BackDAWman

I'm using MyLyricBook. It uses midi PC like OnSong. I set it up with my new midi adapter for the ipad last night (after a wine or two(three)) and it just worked. Setting a midi PC number to each sheet is a cakewalk! Uber cool and simple to use!

Elantric

Another vote for IOS SetlistMaker
http://search.itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZContentLink.woa/wa/link?path=apps%2fsetlistmaker

http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/main/home.html




Set List Maker is a powerful song management tool for musicians. With thousands of users around the world and new ideas arriving daily, the app is packed with features to help catalog your music, plan shows, share with your bandmates and streamline your performances.
Catalog: Set List Maker can store a database for each of your projects, with unlimited songs in each database. Songs include standard fields for artist, style, tempo, duration, starting pitch and lyrics, plus an unlimited number of custom fields. You can attach multiple documents and recordings to each song, and update your documents with on-screen annotations as you rehearse.
Plan: You can plan your shows by sorting your songs in different ways, selecting the songs you want to perform and then dragging them into your preferred sequence. You can play the attached recordings to preview the show, then go back to change songs or adjust the sequence at any time. Set List Maker keeps a record of all your past shows, so you can also plan a new show by copying a previous one.
Share: When your set list is complete, you can print it out for use on stage, email it to your bandmates or paste it into a text message or Facebook post. If your bandmates also use Set List Maker, you can set up a wireless sync so everyone can work from the same database.
Perform: Set List Maker can also help you on stage. The Perform window has large text and buttons for quick access to your set list, recordings, tempos and documents during your performance. You can control many functions with Bluetooth or MIDI foot switches or drum pads, or let Set List Maker control your MIDI devices by sending program changes or custom data. You can even link iOS devices together for screen sharing or remote control.
To make the app easy to try out, the core functionality is available at an initial low cost, with some additional functionality requiring an in-app purchase. You can also click through the site for detailed tutorials and demo videos, or read some user reviews, before making your purchase decision.

The Set List Maker interface is available in English, German, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, French and Italian.


Elantric

#24
If you are on Android - there is a an app called Android Stage Assistant (but if you are pro get an ipad and run the superior IOS Set List Maker (described above) 
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.stageassistant&hl=en









Description
Create set lists and share them with your band members! Use the live mode to see the current song's info on stage or at rehearsals and switch to the next song by MIDI or manually.
Demo version can be downloaded here: http://www.audio-evolution.com/ccount/click.php?id=80
On one hand, you can maintain your songs, set lists and performances and on the other hand you can 'play back' a performance: in this 'live' mode you will see the current and next song's title, artist, notes and additional settings like patch numbers or whatever you like. In addition to that, you can even let it show a blinking tempo bar with the correct tempo you have stored with the song! You can go to the next or previous song by pressing a button or...
You can even use the MIDI switching facility to go to the next and previous song! Connect a USB MIDI interface to your phone or tablet running Android 3.2 or higher, set your MIDI control change numbers in the preferences and switch songs from your floor controller!
Please use the free USB MIDI Monitor app to see if your USB MIDI interface is working before purchasing the app if you wish to use the MIDI switching facility. You can find a number of tested devices there as well.
Enter new songs in the app, import them from your friends or import CSV files that can be easily made on desktops.
This is the template files for CSV:
http://www.audio-evolution.com/downloads/SetList.csv
You can also use this Excel sheet and then export to CSV in Excel:
http://www.audio-evolution.com/downloads/SetList.xls
We appreciate any feedback!! Please report any bugs or wishes by email instead of writing negative reviews!