Tony McKenzie Gibson LP Review

Started by Elantric, April 09, 2016, 03:31:51 PM

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Elantric


Chumly

#1
Which begs the question of whether or not the differences are worth the cost, and strictly from the point of view of the consequential music that can be made vs. quality of the guitar's construction, the answer is clearly no, and the evidence that consequential music can be made with more modest guitars is in abundance.

My above text is not a denigration of a beautifully crafted instrument with an identifiable lineage.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Elantric

#2
QuoteWhich begs the question of whether or not the differences are worth the cost,
Once the baby boomers die off - probably no.
Even with a video like this,

Some still cant tell or care to know the difference between a $350 Asian LP copy or a $3500 genuine Gibson Custom Shop instrument.
Also most folks who know guitars and the attention to detail of today's Gibson Custom Shop instruments are "Les Appalled" by todays high prices, which seem to be hitting Samick Grand Piano $$$ teritory 

With CNC mass produced asian guitars, Younger generations in my experience have Less Exposure to a genuine Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul with correct hardware and Neck specs and nitro lacquer finish  - you won't find that on an Agile, or Harley Benson or 99% of Epiphones. Not even on USA production Gibsons from Massman ave Gibson USA plant in Nashville




I never thought Id say it - but my Gibson 2015 CS8 LP was worth every cent. 

Some perspective on cost.


http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?80782-Price-of-a-new-Les-Paul-in-1959



In 1959 a Gibson Les Paul Standard with case  cost $307.50 - which with inflation is equivalent to $2,506 in 2016




In 1974 I bought a new Chevrolet  for $3,200,- which with inflation is equivalent to $15,392 in 2016

and a new Gibson Les Paul with case for $540, - which with inflation is equivalent to $2,619  in 2016


Here is an inflation calculator
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1.00&year1=1959&year2=2016



And a lot of it revolves around "When  you were age 16, what type guitar was played by your personal guitar gods, and exudes a positive reaction of immense joy every time you touch it" Thats going to be a different experience for each individual.




I know a local collector who owns 22 guitars - yet all are the same model  Jackson Randy Rhodes in different years and colors


Not worth debating which one of us is happier, ( or more nuts) ?

Bill Ruppert

You are right.
99% of the new import guitars are just gooped in polyester.
Ibanez is one of the few you can still feel wood on the neck.
Even the Paul Reed Smiths I played the other day feel like they were coated in 1/2 inch of plastic.
The older Gibson's feel so nice...

Chumly

"Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it." - Publilius Syrus
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Elantric

#5
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1653520

"nitro" lacquer finishes tend to be very thin. when they take a ding, it looks like a ding.

"poly" finishes are typically much thicker and can withstand a lot of abuse. when they do take a ding, it looks like cracked glass. this is why your MIM strat holds up better than the pricey guitars with nitro finishes.

here's pieces of a thick poly finish once it's stripped from a guitar.






--
The principal reason Lacquer is rare today on mass production guitars is Polyester finish yields higher throughput per day with less labor time in the final polishing department. 
Also  due to local government controls and linking lacquer spray fumes to poor air quality and toxicity, its no longer legal to spray lacquer in mass quantities on a daily basis in many jurisdictions.

https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/5187.html

Some plants kick out 300 guitars a day , so a major Guitar plant here in California could not legally keep enough inventory of lacquer on the premises to spray the daily production quota.

Explains why only the limited Custom Shop divisions at Fender can still legally spray same lacquer today,  as they did on their pre 1969 instruments. And why in 2016, more Fenders are built in Mexico

The air quality management laws in Tennessee are far less stringent.

Gibson USA plant in Nashville, Tennessee can still legally spray 100% Nitro Lacquer on new mass production Gibson guitars at 300 guitars per day. Jack Daniels distillery in Lynchburg, TN  generates a lot of fumes too. and also remains in Tennessee  - both remain there in large part due to air quality management laws in Tennessee being far less stringent.

not to mention this place
http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/world-war-ii-history/videos/secret-atomic-city-is-built-in-oak-ridge-tennessee



Elantric

#6
This is a detailed breakdown of LP build
http://www.tdpri.com/threads/1959-les-paul-build.194271/
preeb wrote>
QuoteLast month I had the opportunity to do a rather complicated fret job, it was an original 1959 Les Paul Standard. The frets needed to be replaced and the owner wanted to keep the original neck bindings including the little bumps that "frame" the fret ends. I don't do repairs any more and if it wasn't a real burst I would have probably refused the job and said "no and good luck"...
but naturally, I couldn't pass the rare opportunity.

whippinpost91850

Out of all the guitars Me and my old shop built over 40 yrs, We always ,always used Nitro celulous. Huge difference in tone and feel

whippinpost91850

That is a job , we usedd to give the customer the option to keep the nubs or not,, Most opted out of the extra $100 charge  25 years ago

That had to be a great experience. Like you I don't do repairs anymore either, But would jump at the chance on that guitar ;D

Elantric

#9
For accuracy


That was a builder in Israel "Preeb" who wrote this detailed breakdown of LP build
http://www.tdpri.com/threads/1959-les-paul-build.194271/


But i myself have spent quality time with a few "real deal" examples back in 1980-86, while working at Valley Arts guitar I worked one genuine '59 LP Standard owned by Christopher Cross. that was amazing - He owns a few  - so google search today talks about a different guitar than the one I setup for him in '82 
I believe this is it here:


I was expecting the weight to be similar to my 1973 LP, so I was immediately surprised by how light the genuine '59 LP Standard was , they used  good tight grain kiln dried Honduras mahogany and the thin lacquer finish that allowed the guitar's notes to bloom.