Stopping TriplePlay sending CC messages - Any Way?

Started by BobTheDog, May 02, 2014, 12:47:41 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BobTheDog

Hi Guys,

My TP is sending out gob loads of CC messages on the "Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar" port, for example 16, 27, 29, 30, 63.

This is causing no end of issues as it is altering parameters on synths as I play!

Is there any way of turning this off?

Thanks

Andy

Cez Nov

Hi, is it sending it while you are playing or when you touch the buttons on the controller? Like volume knob, buttons, etc.


Cez Nov

#3
Indeed I've just checked it on midi monitor. It sends a lot of CC#30 messages, so I suggest you shouldn't use this particular message on your other devices/instruments/VST's. Or you can use some midi filter to cut out those messages. But I guess it may be risky, since those messages are there for a reason... why exacly? Donno, maybe some would help?

Elantric

#4
Verify you are using the proper FTP MIDI OUTPUT port  = there are two.

Your Computer DAW will see two FTP MIDI Input devices. Avoid the 2nd FTP MIDI Port, as this a dedicated communication channel for the FTP Control Panel App, and it spews lots of MIDI CC data.

And observe the message from the FTP Control panel developer here: 

Quote There are two FTP modes for doing this.  In "Normal" mode, all these notes share the same channel, and the FTP operates in Chromatic mode.  No wheel (MIDI Pitch Bend Change) events  are sent.  In "Hardware" mode (power up the controller holding the D-pad UP button), the strings have discreet channels and the FTP is no longer in Chromatic mode - wheel (MIDI Pitch Bend Change) events are sent.   FTP's "hardware" mode corresponds to Roland's "Mono" mode, and is clearly preferred for this type of processing.

http://www.midi.org/techspecs/midimessages.php



Fishman TriplePlay TOP THINGS TO KNOW
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.msg60207#msg60207



http://tripletalk.fishman.com

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCESFO_X5SdrK3etuGpxPxfg/videos

BobTheDog

I am using the correct port, not the "control" one but still there are heap loads of different CC messages being sent, this is causing chaos!

I have contacted support, lets see what they say.

I will also try starting in hardware mode and see what happens then.....

Cez Nov

Just like you, I am using the correct port and also running FTP in Basic Mode (powering up without any button pressed). I checked on monitor: while playing it ALWAYS sends CC#30 messages on midi channel number 8.

BobTheDog

Do you get any others, I get loads of different ones?

Cez Nov

While playing - just those. When pressing the PAD, there are more, but I assume that is not your problem. If you get more you should wait for the support to answer.

BobTheDog

15:19:53.331   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 29   76
15:19:53.331   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   61
15:19:53.332   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 29   75
15:19:53.332   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   126
15:19:53.341   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   14
15:19:53.342   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 29   74
15:19:53.342   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   122
15:19:53.354   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Note Off   2   82   0
15:19:53.354   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 30   16
15:19:53.356   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   75
15:19:53.360   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Note On   2   59   29
15:19:53.361   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 30   18
15:19:53.361   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 29   78
15:19:53.362   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   122
15:19:53.369   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   90
15:19:53.385   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   79
15:19:53.397   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   78
15:19:53.414   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   77
15:19:53.429   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   76
15:19:53.442   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   75
15:19:53.470   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Note On   1   65   10
15:19:53.470   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 30   1
15:19:53.471   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 29   72
15:19:53.471   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   43
15:19:53.475   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 29   71
15:19:53.475   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   123
15:19:53.484   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Note Off   1   65   0
15:19:53.484   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 30   0
15:19:53.485   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Note On   1   64   10
15:19:53.485   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 30   1
15:19:53.486   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   87
15:19:53.499   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   72
15:19:53.514   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   71
15:19:53.530   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   70
15:19:53.545   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   69
15:19:53.557   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   68
15:19:53.572   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   67
15:19:53.587   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   66
15:19:53.615   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   65
15:19:53.645   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   64
15:19:53.687   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   63
15:19:53.745   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   62
15:19:53.848   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 61   61
15:19:54.296   From Fishman TriplePlay TP Guitar   Note Off   4   52   0

rolandvg99

#10
In IOS block using MIDIbridge.
Windows -> MIDI-OX
OSX -> MIDI pipe http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/MidiPipe.html
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Elantric

#11
Verify you have performed that latest FTP firmware updates.

Post what Fishman support says.

Im not seeing that behavior here with my FTP.
( Note: I'm NOT running the FTP Control Panel App!)

using Snoize MIDI Monitor on my FTP Version 1.2.3647

I see these MIDI Messages (non FTP Hardware Mode)

Three way switch Position

"Guitar" = MIDI CC#63 = 1

"Synth" = MIDI CC#63 = 2

"MIX" = MIDI CC#63 = 3


The FTP Controller's volume knob sends messages on MIDI Channels 1 & 2 CC#7 (Channel Volume)  0-127
I do see the activity below  when I move my three way switch on the FTP Controller.
Copied from Snoize MIDI Monitor MIDI Message activity screen below:
  TIME               SOURCE          Message   Ch    DATA
08:23:10.742   From TP Control   Control   2   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:12.048   From TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 63   3 (MIX)
08:23:12.048   From TP Control   Control   8   Controller 63   3 (MIX)
08:23:12.048   From TP Guitar   Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:12.048   From TP Control   Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:12.049   From TP Guitar   Control   2   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:12.049   From TP Control   Control   2   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:12.832   From TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 63   1 (GUITAR)
08:23:12.832   From TP Control   Control   8   Controller 63   1 (GUITAR)
08:23:12.832   From TP Guitar   Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:12.832   From TP Control   Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:12.832   From TP Guitar   Control   2   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:12.832   From TP Control   Control   2   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:15.037   From TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 63   3 (MIX)
08:23:15.037   From TP Control   Control   8   Controller 63   3 (MIX)
08:23:15.038   From TP Guitar   Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:15.038   From TP Control   Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:15.038   From TP Guitar   Control   2   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:15.038   From TP Control   Control   2   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:15.879   From TP Guitar   Control   8   Controller 63   2 (SYNTH)
08:23:15.879   From TP Control   Control   8   Controller 63   2 (SYNTH)
08:23:15.879   From TP Guitar   Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:15.879   From TP Control   Control   1   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:15.880   From TP Guitar   Control   2   Channel Volume (coarse)   127
08:23:15.880   From TP Control   Control   2   Channel Volume (coarse)   127

BobTheDog

Interesting!

I tried with two different triple plays and see the same thing.

I also checked for updates and forced the FW update, no change.


BobTheDog


Elantric

#14
When the FTP Control Panel App is up and running - yes FTP spews MIDi CC messages on MIDI Channel 8

shut down the FTP  Control Panel app, and retest with a MIDI Monitor app.


I use FTP 90% of the time with an iPad - so I do not experience the FTP<> Control Panel "MIDI CC data spew"

BobTheDog

aha, now I just get a CC 30 after each note on note off, a Major improvement!

Cez Nov

To clarify: by Fishman Control Panel App you mean the WIN/OS software with synths, pedal, splits etc? If so, how should one use this as a plugin in a DAW while it is sending so many CC messages. It is obvious it will interfere with the DAW in a bad way.

Elantric

#17
QuoteTo clarify: by Fishman Control Panel App you mean the WIN/OS software with synths, pedal, splits etc? If so, how should one use this as a plugin in a DAW while it is sending so many CC messages. It is obvious it will interfere with the DAW in a bad way.

Contact Fishman Support
or
read the "Official procedures" in the FTP Docs and videos all linked here:
Fishman TriplePlay TOP THINGS TO KNOW
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.msg60207#msg60207

And Shawnb has a useful guide on integrating the FTP into a DAW here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8362.0


Myself - I just use the FTP as any other USB Class Compliant MIDI Controller - just like my Korg NanoKey - which works for my needs.

BobTheDog

They got back and asked for more details which I gave them, I also directed them at this thread.

Once I hear back I will post what they have to say.

BobTheDog

#19
Sorry forgot to update this.

They got back to me, the extra midi CC messages are all on channel 8 and are used for communication with the software.

So basically you need to filter out channel 8.

shawnb

#20
There are THREE layers of control messages you need to be aware of.   

1)  The "second FTP port", which you don't want to listen to, as it conveys information between the device & the software.
2)  Channel 8, which is on the primary FTP port, which you ALSO don't want to listen to, as it ALSO conveys information between the device & the software. 
3)  Power up Settings.  Upon powerup, the FTP attempts to change your SYNTH to bring it in alignment with the FTP's global settings.  These are all xmitted on the primary FTP port & data channels:
  • The FTP attempts to set the PBR, pitch bend range, of the receiving synth using a universal RPN standard technique, using CC#s 6, 38, 100 & 101
  • Volume per current FTP guitar/mix/synth setting & volume knob
  • zeroes out all pitch bends for all active channels
  • Set all notes OFF
  • Sets PC, MSB (CC#0), LSB (CC#32), MIDI Expression (CC#11) & MIDI Reverb (CC#91) per your first patch
Also, during normal operation, on the primary FTP port & data channels:
  • CC#7 is used for volume control
  • Sets PC, MSB (CC#0), LSB (CC#32), MIDI Expression (CC#11) & MIDI Reverb (CC#91) per your patch definitions, as you navigate through your patches using your dpad
A note on CC#7 - we've learned elsewhere on this forum that it behaves slightly differently in the different FTP modes.  It doesn't always set volume to 0 when you think it will, when the FTP app is active.   

There is more depth & explanation about what the different CC values are & what they do here.  Although this doc is primarily about HW-mono mode, all the same CCs are used in other modes for the same purposes:
    https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9625.0

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

tomtheguitarguy

Quote from: BobTheDog on May 11, 2014, 10:05:38 AM
Sorry forgot to update this.

They got back to me, the extra midi CC messages are all on channel 8 and are used for communication with the software.

So basically you need to filter out channel 8.

I was going to mention that it appeared that it was all from channel 8, but it looks like Fishman got back to you with that info.  Glad to see you worked it out...
http://www.tomtheguitarguy.com ~ http://www.tomcatsband.com
CIJ Blue Floral w/ McVay G Bender
G & L Will Ray Signature ASAT w/ Hipshot B Bender
JTV-69 James Tyler Variax
Fishman TriplePlay ~ Roland GR-55
Dr. Z RxES 2x12
Quilter MicroPro200 10" ~ Quilter Aviator 8" ~ Quilter Steelaire
Bose L1 Classic

parks

Hi, Does anyone know how I can filter out this Midi channel 8 in Ableton?

The cc messages sent on this channel are picked up by Ableton so when I try to map a note on my guitar to a clip in Ableton it takes the cc message on channel 8 instead of the note.

Elantric

#23
What is your Ableton platform (Windows or OSX?) ?

Review this thread:
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184708

actually you can do some basic CC filtering with the chain selectors inside instrument racks, have a look in the Live manual.

if you don't want to go down the Max for Live route, then there are other MIDI utilities that you can use to mess with MIDI messages before they reach Live, e.g.

Bomes,
http://www.bome.com/products/miditranslator

MidiPipe,
http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/MidiPipe.html

MIDI-OX.
http://www.midiox.com/


There a few vst that can filter midi.

Pizmidi (free) has one that can 'change' up to 16 CC to other CC... so can 'filter' by changing to a dead one.
http://www.thepiz.org/plugins/?p=pizmidi



http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192282

Cableguys have a 'midishaper'...
Dont know how it works.. but there is a demo.
http://www.cableguys.de/midi-shaper-ableton-live.html
There was another (free).. trying to remember and look.



http://www.midiplugins.com/


parks

Hey Elantric thanks for the reply.

I should have said before but I'm running your favourite OS, Windows 7!

I had a look at the link you posted and various midi channel filtering VST's. I might be wrong and I'm not at home at the moment so I cant try any of them out, but if they are VST's will they just filter out the midi channel on that track? I think I need some software to filter out channel 8 from the triple play before it gets to Ableton.