Set List Maker - Lyrics and MIDI Patch change control setup

Started by mockchoi, July 28, 2013, 11:14:17 AM

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mockchoi

I bought an iRig midi to play with, as well as to try to figure out how to use onsong to change Gr-55 patches.  I honestly don't know why I bothered; I knew I wouldn't be able to make this work :)

Has anyone any experience with this?  I have the iRig IN connected to the GR-55 Midi OUT, and vice versa, and the iRig connected thorugh  a lightning to 30-pin adapter.  GTR-MIDI switch is set to on in the GR-55, and the String Channel I have set at 1.  In Sampletank I have the MIDI controllers set to 'ON' and have an instrument selected with channel 1.  It seems like it should pick up the notes from my guitar, but I get nothing.

Also, if I have the IN's and OUT's all connected, shouldn't I get sound through the GR-55 L/Mono out when I plan a sound in Sampletank?  Otherwise, are people amplifying this stuff using the iPad headphone jack or something?  Seems clunky.

No clue on Onsong either.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks!

Elantric

Use a free IOS MIDI Monitor to see MIDI TRAFFIC and test your midi connections. Search itunes app store.

Also Audio will never be transferred over MIDI so not sure why you expect to hear Sampletank via GR55 Audio out.

I use Setlist Maker
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/set-list-maker/id410496349?mt=8

with ipad+CCK and cheap Meritline USB to MIDI cable and connect only to GR-55 MIDI IN  to have Setlist Maker change GR55 patches.


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8975.msg65510#msg65510

I tried the over hyped Onsong IOS app, but SetListMaker works 1000 times better for my live gig needs.

Litesnsirens

#2
I have to agree setlistmaker makes setting up midi program changes a lot easier.  It can be done with OnSong, and once you get the way to set out the metadata you can write it into lyrics page of the song (whether you put any lyrics in there or not) I have found this to be the only reliable way to do it.  Trying to enter the data in the provided midi parameters never seemed to stick.  I've dumped all my Onsong stuff in favour of setlistmaker, but maybe I can load it back in just to post up an example of how you have to set it up.

deano

#3
I recently posted re Onsong and using an iRig to change patched via midi.

I have also just changed to set list Maker. Far more versitile, quicker patch changing and you can create midi presets which you can then just apply to your songs.

Happy to help with any questions

whippinpost91850

Great, I may have some ?? I can't wait to get started with this. This is the answer I've been praying for all my life, as I can sing just can't remember lyrics. I can remember songs I haven't played in years, but funny can't remember a few words.

deano


Litesnsirens

As a new user of setlist maker I figured I would post this little thing I ran into recently regarding the midi.  When you create a midi preset for the GR-55 it requires an MSB for bank changes.  Since the first 128 patches (0-127) of the "user" patches use "0" as the bank number I had just quickly ran through and entered 0 in both the MSB and LSB fields.  That works perfectly, it's when you bump up to bank 1 (presets 129-256) that you have to pay attention.  I thought Gr-55 ignored the LSB messages but it doesn't.  As I did with the first bank instead of zeros I put "1" in both fields. And then "2" for the 3rd bank for presets 257-296.  None of them worked.  I discovered that the gr-55 wants to see "0" in the LSB bank.

Many of you may not require presets past the first 128 but since I play in 3 bands and each song had its own patch I have a lot and I keep them somewhat spread out to allow for expansion. 
I actually decided in setlistmaker to create a database for each band so they can sync separately and one global database.  In the global database I've created 297 midi presets, one for each user patch, and assigned all the midi changes for both my Gr-55 and my voicelive2.  Then I can just copy what I need from there to my band databases as needed.

That's how I discovered the above, I'm in the process of creating a song for each midi preset in the global database as well (even if the only data in the song is the title and the midi preset for now.  This will allow me to access any of my user patches from that database without scrolling the wheel or repeatedly tapping the S1 buttons.  The smart lists in setlistmaker allow you to show all the songs by title or artist or tempo style etc.  very cool feature!!

It seems like there are a number of people starting to use SLM.  Maybe we should make a tips and tricks thread.  And keep it somewhere accessible.  There's a lot that can be done with this and I think we are just scratching the surface.  I have some other ideas that I haven't tested yet but some might find them helpful.  I'm also looking forward to the ik multimedia blueboard coming out this fall.  Looks like a better alternative to the BT-105 although it runs on triple A batteries.

whippinpost91850

Thanks Lites, I'm just starting to use SLM and this is helpful info

greekjgg

I've been using setlist maker stand alone for many months now and its a great app...now that I can change patches with my GR55 I'm even gonna love it more.

You also use it for voice live patches as well....is there an ipad app that can do the same thing as voice live that you could change keys with setlist maker? THere are a couple decent ipad apps live voice live but the downfall for me is having to manually change the key for each song. If there was a way to do this via setlist maker that would be the "complete" fantasy for me.



Quote from: Litesnsirens on August 03, 2013, 07:49:51 AM
As a new user of setlist maker I figured I would post this little thing I ran into recently regarding the midi.  When you create a midi preset for the GR-55 it requires an MSB for bank changes.  Since the first 128 patches (0-127) of the "user" patches use "0" as the bank number I had just quickly ran through and entered 0 in both the MSB and LSB fields.  That works perfectly, it's when you bump up to bank 1 (presets 129-256) that you have to pay attention.  I thought Gr-55 ignored the LSB messages but it doesn't.  As I did with the first bank instead of zeros I put "1" in both fields. And then "2" for the 3rd bank for presets 257-296.  None of them worked.  I discovered that the gr-55 wants to see "0" in the LSB bank.

Many of you may not require presets past the first 128 but since I play in 3 bands and each song had its own patch I have a lot and I keep them somewhat spread out to allow for expansion. 
I actually decided in setlistmaker to create a database for each band so they can sync separately and one global database.  In the global database I've created 297 midi presets, one for each user patch, and assigned all the midi changes for both my Gr-55 and my voicelive2.  Then I can just copy what I need from there to my band databases as needed.

That's how I discovered the above, I'm in the process of creating a song for each midi preset in the global database as well (even if the only data in the song is the title and the midi preset for now.  This will allow me to access any of my user patches from that database without scrolling the wheel or repeatedly tapping the S1 buttons.  The smart lists in setlistmaker allow you to show all the songs by title or artist or tempo style etc.  very cool feature!!

It seems like there are a number of people starting to use SLM.  Maybe we should make a tips and tricks thread.  And keep it somewhere accessible.  There's a lot that can be done with this and I think we are just scratching the surface.  I have some other ideas that I haven't tested yet but some might find them helpful.  I'm also looking forward to the ik multimedia blueboard coming out this fall.  Looks like a better alternative to the BT-105 although it runs on triple A batteries.
Setup:
Homemade EVH Frankenstrat with built in GK3
GR55
Rocktron Talkbox
TC Helicon Voicetone C1
Tech 21 Power Engine 60

Litesnsirens

I can't think of any way off hand, unless the app accepts midi messages and then you could figure out a way to have setlist maker send the midi messages internally to the other app.  Do you have both apps, your voice live app and setlistmaker running at the same time and do they work like that?  Or do you have 2 iPads?

greekjgg

#10
Quote from: Elantric on July 28, 2013, 12:06:52 PM


I use Setlist Maker with ipad+CCK and cheap Meritline USB to MIDI cable and connect only to GR-55 MIDI IN  to have Setlist Maker change GR55 patches.


What do you mean by "ipad+CCK"? I have setlist maker, I have the cheap meritline usb to midi cable connect. I'd like to get this working.

Do I have to assign the midi tracks as well?
Setup:
Homemade EVH Frankenstrat with built in GK3
GR55
Rocktron Talkbox
TC Helicon Voicetone C1
Tech 21 Power Engine 60

Elantric

QuoteWhat do you mean by "ipad+CCK"?


Apple Computer Ipad + Apple Computer Camera Connection Kit ( CCK)   

Details here:


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8393.0

greekjgg

Quote from: Elantric on August 20, 2013, 04:53:45 PM

Apple Computer Ipad + Apple Computer Camera Connection Kit ( CCK)   

Details here:


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8393.0

DUH, Sorry! I shoulda knew that...so I have the correct hardware.....Does it work at this point, or do I need rename midi channels or something? I'm new with messing with midi. At this point I want to just be able to click the track in setlist and it change my patch.
Setup:
Homemade EVH Frankenstrat with built in GK3
GR55
Rocktron Talkbox
TC Helicon Voicetone C1
Tech 21 Power Engine 60

Elantric

QuoteI'm new with messing with midi.

You must follow the advice in this thread below - else get very lucky or have tons of spare time.

"Workflow" for setting up MIDI controllers
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.0

greekjgg

Quote from: Elantric on August 20, 2013, 05:10:29 PM
You must follow the advice in this thread below - else get very lucky or have tons of spare time.

"Workflow" for setting up MIDI controllers
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.0

So its not as simple as having the midi cable, cck, and the app? You still need the controller if I understand correctly?
Setup:
Homemade EVH Frankenstrat with built in GK3
GR55
Rocktron Talkbox
TC Helicon Voicetone C1
Tech 21 Power Engine 60

mockchoi

Okay, I'm ready to try setlist maker.  I found this info by Gumtown and Elantric, and I don't know what is wrong with me, but I can't get my head around this at all.

The GR-55 bank/patch midi works like this
B0 00 00 = bank change (bank 0)
B0 20 00 = control change, this sets the bank change in place and tells the device a patch change message is following.
C0 00 = patch change (patch 1)

B0 00 00 (bank 0)
B0 20 00
C0 7F     (patch 128)
this does U43:2

B0 00 01 (bank 1)
B0 20 00
C0 00    (patch 1)
this does U43:3

B0 00 01 (bank 1)
B0 20 00
C0 7F    (patch 128)
this does U86:1

B0 00 02 (bank 2)
B0 20 00
C0 00   (patch 1)
this does U86:2


How do these bank and patch numbers relate the the patch number on the unit?  I know I'll feel stupid when it's pointed out to me.


Elantric

#16
QuoteSo its not as simple as having the midi cable, cck, and the app? You still need the controller if I understand correctly?
In this thread we are talking about using an IOS app called SetList Maker as the MIDI Controller to change GR-55 presets live at the gig using an iPad. For the physical MIDI connection to GR-55, Some use an iRig MIDI  adapter with iPhone or iPad. I use an iPad+CCK+ $11 USB to MIDI cable.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8393.0


On the GR-55 - you must read GR-55 owners manual Page 79, and press Edit, then under the General Tab, Select MIDI Channel 1, and "PC RX Switch" = On 
QuoteTurn this "ON" if you want program change messages from an external device to switch patches. You can
use the RX BANK/PC MAP to change the correspondence between incoming program change numbers
and the GR-55's patches.


SetlistMaker is the MIDI controller


https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id410496349?mt=8

http://www.youtube.com/user/setlistmaker
http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/getting_started.html
http://www.arlomedia.com/apps/setlistmaker/tutorials/sending_MIDI.html

Here is the SetlistMaker MIDI Setup screen the three fields are Bank MSB, Bank LSB, Program Number

QuoteOkay, I'm ready to try setlist maker.  I found this info by Gumtown and Elantric, and I don't know what is wrong with me, but I can't get my head around this at all.
Myself - I'm currently only accessing only the first 128 GR-55 presets with setlistmaker

But re-read what Litesnsirens wrote above  - this unlocks access to all GR-55 Banks !
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9090.msg65827#msg65827
Quote
Re: GR-55 and iPad (Setlist Maker)
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2013, 07:49:51 AM »

As a new user of setlist maker I figured I would post this little thing I ran into recently regarding the midi.  When you create a midi preset for the GR-55 it requires an MSB for bank changes.  Since the first 128 patches (0-127) of the "user" patches use "0" as the bank number I had just quickly ran through and entered 0 in both the MSB and LSB fields.  That works perfectly, it's when you bump up to bank 1 (presets 129-256) that you have to pay attention.  I thought Gr-55 ignored the LSB messages but it doesn't.  As I did with the first bank instead of zeros I put "1" in both fields. And then "2" for the 3rd bank for presets 257-296.  None of them worked. I discovered that the gr-55 wants to see "0" in the LSB bank. - [that works]

Many of you may not require presets past the first 128 but since I play in 3 bands and each song had its own patch I have a lot and I keep them somewhat spread out to allow for expansion. 
I actually decided in setlistmaker to create a database for each band so they can sync separately and one global database.  In the global database I've created 297 midi presets, one for each user patch, and assigned all the midi changes for both my Gr-55 and my voicelive2.  Then I can just copy what I need from there to my band databases as needed.

That's how I discovered the above, I'm in the process of creating a song for each midi preset in the global database as well (even if the only data in the song is the title and the midi preset for now.  This will allow me to access any of my user patches from that database without scrolling the wheel or repeatedly tapping the S1 buttons.  The smart lists in setlistmaker allow you to show all the songs by title or artist or tempo style etc.  very cool feature!!

It seems like there are a number of people starting to use SLM.  Maybe we should make a tips and tricks thread.  And keep it somewhere accessible.  There's a lot that can be done with this and I think we are just scratching the surface.  I have some other ideas that I haven't tested yet but some might find them helpful.  I'm also looking forward to the ik multimedia blueboard coming out this fall.  Looks like a better alternative to the BT-105 although it runs on triple A batteries.



To debug MIDI communication and verify I'm sending exactly the MIDI commands I want. - I will swap out the Target device to be controlled (GR-55) with  a "MIDI data Monitor" - like MIDI-OX (PC) or SNOIZE(Mac) or Terrasonde Audio Toolbox,
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.0

or spare iPad +CCK+ $11 USB to MIDI cable and a DIN5 female to female coupler and run an IOS app called MIDI Wrench as a MIDI Event Viewer.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/midi-wrench/id589243566?mt=8

http://www.showmecables.com/product/DIN-5-Pin-Female-to-DIN-5-Pin-Female-Midi-Coupler.aspx?zmam=49733141&zmac=5&zmas=1&zmap=GMD-108&gclid=CM6_t5PcjrkCFSNyQgod4hQAdw


Review the MIDI Tutorials
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2977.0

greekjgg

ok, I think I understand now. You have to create the "connections" on the setlist maker side to "match" the gr55 it seems.

So in theory, since IK Multimedia's "Vocalive" also uses midi and audiobus...could we also use setlist maker to change keys in the vocalive app when triggering a patch change in the gr55? I would love some sort of TC box and that is on my short list but in the mean time there are a few apps that work decent. I prefer improvox but it doesn't use midi.

Setup:
Homemade EVH Frankenstrat with built in GK3
GR55
Rocktron Talkbox
TC Helicon Voicetone C1
Tech 21 Power Engine 60

Elantric

#18
Myself - I'm not a fan of running multiple IOS apps at same time at live gig. My old iPad 2 and ipad mini struggle under those situations
Quote..could we also use setlist maker to change keys in the vocalive app when triggering a patch change in the gr55?
At this time (August 2013)There is no built in interapp MIDI communications on IOS, (maybe in IOS 7) till then you also need an IOS  MIDI Router app  - like MIDI Bridge.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/midibridge/id449160859?mt=8


or Jack

http://www.toneluster.com/jack-audio-connection-kit-free-ios-inter-app-audio-midi-sync/

Maybe my 2014 iPad 5 will be powerful enough.

Or run Vocalive on a separate iPad

Elantric

Video shows how to have multiple MIDI patch changes within one song in SetList Maker


mockchoi

Quote from: mockchoi on August 21, 2013, 05:39:19 AM
Okay, I'm ready to try setlist maker.  I found this info by Gumtown and Elantric, and I don't know what is wrong with me, but I can't get my head around this at all.

The GR-55 bank/patch midi works like this
B0 00 00 = bank change (bank 0)
B0 20 00 = control change, this sets the bank change in place and tells the device a patch change message is following.
C0 00 = patch change (patch 1)

B0 00 00 (bank 0)
B0 20 00
C0 7F     (patch 128)
this does U43:2

B0 00 01 (bank 1)
B0 20 00
C0 00    (patch 1)
this does U43:3

B0 00 01 (bank 1)
B0 20 00
C0 7F    (patch 128)
this does U86:1

B0 00 02 (bank 2)
B0 20 00
C0 00   (patch 1)
this does U86:2


How do these bank and patch numbers relate the the patch number on the unit?  I know I'll feel stupid when it's pointed out to me.

Alright, if this helps anyone out (I'm sure if you know anything about midi this is self-evident, but it wasn't to me).  What you have to enter into the Bank MSB, Bank LSB, and Program are the last two digits of the codes above, eg 02 00 00 gives you patch U86:2

DF400

I have used SLM for quite some time and love it - so much so that I wonder how i ever gigged without it.  However, i recently separated with my iPad 2, and am looking to get another. I love the portability of the Mini iPad, any input on integration limitations with gigging or SLM?

Thanks

Elantric

I own both ipad2 (64gb wifi+3G )and ipad mini (32gb wifi) Ipad mini runs everything 10-15% faster than my ipad2.
All apple lighting adapters are amazing engineering for duplicationg reverse compatibility with older 30pin dock gear.

But if you are in the market for ipad, wait until October when faster models will replace the current model range.
I see they finally have 128gb ipads now..

DF400

Thanks, I had planned on October so that works out perfect. I guess highest storage possible, given my future plans to integrate FTP with sample sounds.
FYI, Roland features an App page with downloads for lots of free iPad Apps - http://www.roland.com/apps/

Also, Roland is currently offering rebates on these guitars:
"Purchase a G-5 VG Stratocaster® between July 1, 2013, and September 30, 2013, and get $200 cash back from Roland."
"Purchase a GC-1 GK-Ready Stratocaster® between July 1, 2013, and September 30, 2013, and get $100 cash back from Roland."

greekjgg

FYI, I just received an email from the developer of Setlist Maker and he is finally launching their web version of this app. There is a free period but it syncs with the ios versions of the app.

I have always prefered the larger screen for the setup of basically "anything" and then use my ipad as the controller. So you can use the web version called band helper http://www.bandhelper.com To make all your "major" changes or initial setup as I call it and then move along with your ios devices. There is already a cool export feature for the ios versions to send the data to the web page  as well. I'm not so sure it will be viable to ask your bandmates for a couple dollars as he's looking at a "subscription" fee but there is a long enough trial period for you to determine this.
Setup:
Homemade EVH Frankenstrat with built in GK3
GR55
Rocktron Talkbox
TC Helicon Voicetone C1
Tech 21 Power Engine 60