Behringer iStudio IS202

Started by Elantric, July 02, 2013, 04:28:38 PM

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Elantric

EDIT: June 2014  - I abandoned further effort on the Behringer iStudio IS202 - due to the limited USB Interface that restricts all Audio I/O to iPad to 16 bits - Modern IOS Amp Sims ( Positive Grid BIAS/JAMUP PRO) really reveal the shortcomings of 16 bit Audio. The latest iPads running IOS6-7 now support Multi-channel 24 bit Audio.  You need 24 bits to run Modern IOS Guitar Amp Sims to get anywhere near a Kemper experience using Positive Grid Bias.  16 bits reveals rice its sonic limitations under this specific condition

For my latest recommended iPad Guitar Interface(24bit I/O, full MIDI I/O, Battery powered for 6 hours use)Read this thread below

IOS 24 bit Audio / MIDI + TriplePlay on Battery power

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9581.0




My Belkin 4 port USB Hub Arrived  -
Belkin 4 port USB Hub gets installed into the Alesis IO Dock like this:
http://www.untergeek.de/2013/01/tech-hack-alesis-io-dock-with-usb-hub/


This is part of a mod that adds a USB Host port to directly support the Fishman Tripleplay on iPad , as first discovered by an Alesis IO Dock User in Germany. I'll make the identical mod to the iStudio soon, after I get through a few gigs with new band.

Just now I saw that AMS had a restock iStudio IS202 (Alesis IO Dock Clone) for $99  - I first saw the iStudio at Winter NAMM 2012.
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-DSP-BEHIS202




Look at the IS202 iStudio Owners Manual will reveal the advantages of the Behringer iStudio over the Alesis IO Dock.
http://www.americanmusical.com/ItemFiles/Manual/BehringeriStudioiS202_iPad_Interface_Manual.pdf

* Runs on 8 AA Batteries - for Dock AND iPad!
* Includes a remote Footswitch input
* Includes a remote Expression  input
* MIDI controller to the MIDI OUT connector. The iStudio can exchange MIDI messages, including SysEx, between an iPad and MIDI devices




I figure the same USB Host Port Hack that works with Alesis IO Dock may work with the iStudio IS202.

I should know next week!

Elantric

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/iS202.aspx

Been using this the past hour with my iPad Mini and Lightning to 30 pin dock adapter - works great, charges the iPad when AC adapter is attached, or runs on batteries - which makes it less susceptible to ground loop noise. 

Ringleader

Are you going to hack it to try and add the USB hub? Or are you thinking that the mod will only work with the Alesis?

mbenigni

I see you list some advantages of the iStudio over the IODock above.  Is the IODock superior to the iStudio in any way, in your opinion?  It is a bit smaller isn't it?  But otherwise?

SysEx is a big benefit.  Tying a couple of threads together here, but I can see where an iPad + iStudio + stripped out GR55 mainboard could be a pretty cool rig, with TouchOSC replacing the GR55 UI.


Elantric

#4
So far I see big advantages of iStudio IS202 over IO dock (own both now).

iStudio Pros (that are missing from Alesis IO Dock):

* Built in Mixer for combining all sounds from Two Combo XLR /TRS Jacks  - and the Stereo Aux Line Inputs, and IOS Synth Tone generators.

* RIAA Preamp for Phonograph  / turntables. I can connect my 30 year old Yamaha direct drive turntable with shure cartridge and capture my vinyl WAY better than the recent junk ION USB Turntables.

* Battery Powered!! (this is huge advantage for live use)

* supports full MIDI specs and Sysex transfers
QuoteAre you going to hack it to try and add the USB hub? Or are you thinking that the mod will only work with the Alesis?

I plan on modding my iStudio IS202 in a similar fashion to the IO Dock USB Host Mod - then i can plug my Tripleplay Receiver straight into the iStudio IS202.

http://www.untergeek.de/2013/01/tech-hack-alesis-io-dock-with-usb-hub/


I can  have a iPad Mini mounted on a mic stand  - and simply use the Apple Lightning to 30 pin adapter cable to another 30pin to 30 pin extender cable - then leave the iStudio on the floor.


--
Mods canceled after I found out IS-202 only supports 16 bit Audio
For my latest recommended iPad Guitar Interface(24bit I/O, full MIDI I/O, Battery powered for 6 hours use)Read this thread below

IOS 24 bit Audio / MIDI + TriplePlay on Battery power
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10323.msg74428#msg74428

 

gandolf

Hi Elantic...This sounds really promising!!...! thanks soooo much for sharing your insights!

can i ask if you've had a chance to test with something like, say , JamUp, for :    audio in > processing in ipad > audio out....?

if we have acceptable audio latency and midi...this could be the "one to rule them all"...!!

Elantric

#6
Quotecan i ask if you've had a chance to test with something like, say , JamUp, for :    audio in > processing in ipad > audio out....?

Yes - Jamup Pro XT was the very IOS app I was using for my iStudio review  / assessment - enable Ultra Low Latency Mode in Jamup pro and the sound was at least equal - (if not better) than my Alesis IO dock   -


--

EDIT: June 2014  - I abandoned further effort on the Behringer iStudio IS202 - due to the limited USB Interface that restricts all Audio I/O to iPad to 16 bits - Modern IOS Amp Sims ( Positive Grid BIAS/JAMUP PRO) really reveal the shortcomings of 16 bit Audio. The latest iPads running IOS6-7 now support Multi-channel 24 bit Audio.  You need 24 bits to run Modern IOS Guitar Amp Sims to get anywhere near a Kemper experience using Positive Grid Bias.  16 bits reveals rice its sonic limitations under this specific condition

For my latest recommended iPad Guitar Interface(24bit I/O, full MIDI I/O, Battery powered for 6 hours use)Read this thread below

IOS 24 bit Audio / MIDI + TriplePlay on Battery power
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10323.msg74428#msg74428

Ringleader

Excuse my ignorance, and hopefully not derailing too much, but would someone please provide an example when transmitting Sysex info would be required/beneficial on an iPad?

mbenigni

Quote from: Ringleader on July 11, 2013, 06:55:44 PM
Excuse my ignorance, and hopefully not derailing too much, but would someone please provide an example when transmitting Sysex info would be required/beneficial on an iPad?

Any time you need to program or control equipment whose settings are not exposed via MIDI CC, PC, or Note number, but instead via proprietary SysEx, this is necessary.  For instance, I use TouchOSC to program my GR55, and nearly all of the GR55 parameters are controlled via SysEx.  A MIDI interface that doesn't transmit SysEx would be useless in this scenario.

For the more typical application of tracking Note On/Off etc. in order to record a MIDI performance on keyboard, guitar synth, etc. SysEx is not necessary.

Ringleader

Thanks for the explanation. So do you use a MIDI sniffer to determine how the info is coded in the Sysex? Since sysex isn't a standardized language like standard MIDI, I don't understand how you would crack the code on the Sysex to know what types of commands to send. Or are you saying that you don't have to worry about that, as long as the MIDI device is capable of transferring the sysex, the apps handle that themselves?

The reason I am asking is that I have a Tascam US-800 and it is a great sounding piece, but there is no way to configure it form the iPad. I would like to toggle direct monitor mode and mute unused channels, but it doesn't respond to standard MIDI commands. However, there is a GUI application for Mac/PC so it has to be communicating somehow - I am assuming it is communicating by sysex? It would be awesome to generate the necessary sysex info to access the functionality referenced above directly from the iPad, but it just seems futile to even begin to understand what it would take to do that.

Elantric

QuoteSo do you use a MIDI sniffer to determine how the info is coded in the Sysex? Since sysex isn't a standardized language like standard MIDI, I don't understand how you would crack the code on the Sysex to know what types of commands to send.
Yes - its a standard strategy to optimize systems
Learn how here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.0

gandolf

 silly question : if you ended with a is202 with the 30 pin connector....and at some later stage updated ipad to a lightening connector model...do you think it would be easy to change connector on the 202?

Elantric

#12
Impossible for mere mortals without access to Apple MFI docs and Apple hardware verification IC.

But re read my review, and look at the pic. Apple Lighting to 30 pin adapter allows new generation ipads to work.

But by September the newer Istudio IS202L (Lighting) should be more available.  It takes forever for hardware vendors to become qualified by Apple. I first saw the IS202 18 months ago.

beatpete

A quick question, can you utilize the usb midi connection on the IS202 to achieve 2 midi ports (with the onboard midi)?

Elantric

#14
Out of the box the included USB Type B  Client port is supposed to allow Mac/ PC to connect to is202. Not tried it

beatpete

Quote from: Elantric on July 21, 2013, 11:23:51 AM
. Not tried it as Im pursuing the USB Host port mod for FTP use with is202
Thanks for the quick reply, maybe someone else can answer my question

Forgive me, but what is the "USB Host port mod"?

Elantric

Quotewhat is the "USB Host port mod"?
Start reading at the first post in this thread


Ringleader

Apparently there will be a version with the Lightning connector at some point called the iSTUDIO THUNDER.

See here:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8673440-post7.html

mbenigni

I hemmed and hawed and finally ordered an iStudio a couple of days ago.  I was on the fence about waiting for the lightning version and upgrading to an iPad4, but for $150 I figured it was worth having something to work with right away.  I wonder whether the "Thunder" will be significantly more expensive than the 30-pin version when it finally ships.

Elantric

#19
I suspect in 2014 the 30 pin version will be hard find, replaced by the iStudio IS202L with Lighting.   Many folks might think "iStudio Thunder " has a Apple/Intel Thunderbolt IO Port. My work IT department already gets confused between which Apple products have Lighting ports and which ones have Thunderbolt ports of course both are incompatible with each other. I suspect that old Sonicstate author made the same confusing mistake.

Ringleader

#20
I asked Behringer the details of the converters in the iStudio and they said:

The D/A converter allows 44.1kHz at 16 bit.  This is as a result from iPad connectivity.

So it is the same as the IO Dock. I was hoping for 24bit like my Apogee Jam but oh well. If Elantric has success modding his iStudio with the hub I might still get one. Running all these music/midi apps at once is really killing my battery life.

mbenigni

#21
My iStudio showed up on Friday and I promptly hooked it up to the effects loop of my KPA.  I'm in love with the thing, and I'm having kind of an iOS renaissance right now, even feeling a little silly for trying to forge my own way with Windows 8 at the cost of much time and money.  This is the first time I've had a good low-latency interface, and I''m finding even my old iPad 1 can do things I'd never have imagined.  (Borrowing my wife's iPad 3 is even better, of course.)  I'm really enjoying the "my first DAW" simplicity of GarageBand after turning my nose up at it all these years - great for setting up quick backing tracks etc. without getting bogged down in routing and reverb predelay settings and mulitband compression and... you get the idea.  I think I might have actually played a little guitar this weekend!   :o

Meanwhile, the iOS version of MIDIGuitar at a mere $20 is so cool I almost regret spending $100 for the Windows beta.  I'm starting to rethink my whole strategy on this.  Not sure I want to be the guy who has to reinvent the wheel on Windows 8 when I can pretty much buy everything I need on iPad for a dollar.  Very much stating the obvious here, I know.  And as likely as not I'll be back to Windows banging my head against the wall at some point.  I'm just a glutton for punishment that way LOL.  Meantime, loving GarageBand, MIDIGuitar, Samplr (so simple and cool), and my eyes are starting to roam to Cubasis for instance...  but that's probably just another rabbit hole I'd fall in and stop practicing as a result.   ::)

Anyway, the iStudio is great.  Tons of I/O, quiet, low-latency, decent headroom with real gain knobs - very helpful.  A little bulkier than I expected, but not a problem really.  Really inexpensive for what it delivers, IMO.

Speaking of I/O, I see it's got USB MIDI as well as 5-pin DIN In and Out.  I don't know whether that Out functions as a Thru, but I wonder if you can use it to convert class-compliant USB MIDI In to standard MIDI Out (like that rather costly piece of hardware that keeps coming up here, whose name I suddenly cannot recall.  EDIT: iConnectMIDI, that's it.  :) )

Elantric

#22
Glad you are being productive. Its a great unit - superior to the Alesis.

Remember USB is a Host  / Client type protocol. a stock iStudio IS202 only has a USB Client Class Compliant Interface.(No USB Host)  Rumor is this allows the iStudio to be a path for  your PC/MAc to use your iPad as a real time external audio processor -the mind boggles.   

The big Mod that I hope to soon find time to research. Install an internal 
Belkin 4 port USB Hub  - just like this guy did with his Alesis IO Dock to provide the missing USB Host port:
http://www.untergeek.de/2013/01/tech-hack-alesis-io-dock-with-usb-hub/

If you read his comments section, you see that the original developer is also waiting for me too!
Quoteuntergeek
sagte am Montag, 8. Juli 2013 um 22:47 :
Update: hier versucht das offenbar gerade einer. Elantric aus dem VGuitarForum hat alle Teile zusammen und will das iStudio umbauen.



mbenigni

QuoteRemember USB is a Host  / Client type protocol. a stock iStudio IS202 only has a USB Client Class Compliant Interface.(No USB Host)

Ah... right.  This should have been obvious, and of course it would have been the moment I tried to plug a USB MIDI accessory in and realized both the "host" and client were looking for a USB-B connector. 

QuoteRumor is this allows the iStudio to be a path for  your PC/MAc to use your iPad as a real time external audio processor -the mind boggles

...or as a MIDI control surface, I would think.  Mixing, Kaoss pad-type applications, etc. without an additional MIDI-to-USB adaptor.

QuoteThe big Mod that I hope to soon find time to research. Install an internal Belkin 4 port USB Hub  - just like this guy did with his Alesis IO Dock to provide the missing USB Host port:

That guy is funny - love the Walter White joke in his video.  :)  I'm going to try to resist the urge to take the thing apart and more USB I/O.  So many ways to distract myself from playing guitar, it's amazing it ever happens.  Now, if a USB-A connector would allow me to plug a thumbdrive in and easily get files onto and off of the iPad, that would be another story - I'd be heating up the solder gun right now!  But I'm pretty sure iOS itself is more of a barrier to this than the absence of USB ports.  The walled garden of a file system is still my single biggest gripe about iOS.


Toby Krebs

@-mbenigni-your I-Pad GR55 editor videos are excellent. Thank you for those!