SY-300 - External MIDI control

Started by cellomangler, July 28, 2015, 03:11:41 PM

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gumtown

If your Telco allows the use of 'unlocked' phones, there are many ROM firmware update available for download + the ODIN ROM loader.

Strange thing with one of my phones, a Samsung S4, it is an unlocked type, and my local Telco didn't have any OS updates for it (4.4 or 5.0),
so I downloaded a Portugese version 5.0 for the S4, after that installed, my local Telco went and updated my phone OTA with a local version of 5.0 even after supposedly not being available.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

gumtown

Had a bit of a play around with a part of an old PIC MIDI project connected to the SY-300.
Using 4 cc# sending rotary knobs an the SY-300 can have 6 SYSTEM/GLOBAL MIDI Assigns setup,
I used 4 on OSC1 Filter controls.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

QuoteHad a bit of a play around with a part of an old PIC MIDI project

Thats a project that still has legs  - now if only there were 36 hours per day it might have progress ;)

Adamixoye

New to the SY-300...is there no way to assign CC directly to things like CTL1, CTL2, etc.?  Or do I have use sysex messages?  That's the impression I'm getting from this thread, but I'm not sure.  I'm a very experienced MIDI user with PC/CC but not sysex.

chrish

#29
CTL1-CTL5 assigns are discussed on page 16 of the paremeter guide. In addition, the four quick knobs can have parameters assigned to them (page 15 and target list starts on page 19), but that requires the use of your hands, hence this discussion on a way to control the parameters on things like opening up an osc filter, along with many more parameters, by external midi control while performing. Also, there seems to be disire to control more parameters than the sy300 allows as a stand alone unit. One simple way to get a greater number of parameters to control would be to set up two or three identical patches and then change the parameter assigns for each patch and switch between them. However, that doesn't solve the use of hands for the quick knobs problem entirely, and it requires alot of programing as opposed to having a  external control surface sending midi cc. I seem to remember that roland had or has a midi pedal board, shaped like a key board, that may have had limited assignable midi, but not sure.

Adamixoye

Okay, after a little more exploring I found what I was looking for.  They were in a less intuitive area of the menu, but they are there.

I use MIDI Designer on an iPad, along with a Livid Guitar Wing and a Source Audio Reflex---I'm looking for ways to assign a few simple controls to these external items.  I'm not necessarily expecting that I will have octopus arms and be able to have control over a MIDI controller while also playing.

chrish

#31
Quote from: Adamixoye on October 03, 2015, 11:06:47 AM


I'm not necessarily expecting that I will have octopus arms and be able to have control over a MIDI controller while also playing.
The solution is of course the expression pedal. While using that pedal with the vg8, i found that each parameter control has a 'sweet spot' and the pedal allows a person to find the spot that suits that sound in conjuction with the 'air', and leave it there. Even if it is just mixing the volume of the synth with the guitar. The sy300 has one pedal out, but also allows assigned use of the ctl switchs within a user defined range, not quite the same control as an expression pedal though, but good for things like pitch bend and sustain. A bank of expression pedals would be another soluntion to external midi control. I would be interested in knowing what parameter you all like to control and what effect that has on the sound you want to hear. I like  to do simple things ( i'm not an advanced synth programer) like modulate a filter just to varry the sound a bit so it doesn't sound so static. That is the beauty of the vg's and the sy, the technique of the player modulates the sound, sort of like the player is an added external midi modulator.

Adamixoye

My setup includes MIDI Designer on iOS, a Livid Guitar Wing, and a Source Audio Reflex.  I know I can configure the Reflex to control various parameters---either through the CTL 4/5 jack or via MIDI.  But I want to be able to do more than that.  I want to be able to use my MIDI Designer to switch patches (I've figured this out) and do basic patch editing without having to connect a laptop or bend over to edit the screen.  This isn't really about real-time during-a-song control, although I want to be able to do some of that.

Related:  I cannot find "on/off" (that is, engage/bypass) anywhere in the MIDI implementation document, nor can I find it as an option while menu diving.  I understand the footswitch is right there, but sometimes I prefer to flick my wrist and hit a button on my Guitar Wing instead finding the footswitch.  Does anyone know where this is, if it exists?

Adamixoye

Nevermind, I found on/off.  I don't think these things are in the most logical place but at least most of them appear to be there.

I do think only allowing 6 MIDI controls is rather limiting for a setup like mine, where I can program an unlimited number of MIDI commands.  But if you're only thinking in terms of live performance, 6 is a lot I guess.

Witness

So does the Sy 300 send midi clock? Sorry I am very new to midi. 

acousticglue

How should I hook this monster up when it arrives? I have a Digitech RP500 and it goes to my Layla24 and I used virtual amps/cabs. Can I control anything on SY with RP? Can I sidechain one of the other?

CodeSmart

Quote from: Witness on October 10, 2015, 01:02:21 AM
So does the Sy 300 send midi clock? Sorry I am very new to midi.

Yes it does.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

joaquin123

I don't get the manual for the midi implementation at all.  Can someone explain some basic functions and how to do them please?  I used to do this for my kemper rig, and it was a lot easier!!  There was no "bnh000001001's - 1-50" bs...

Im not very experienced midi programming but I thought I understood the basics.  I thought midi was mostly midi channel, pc's and cc's? I just don't understand how the manual is supposed to be read.  Its like it was written for computers not the users programming them. Even if people share how they setup their midi rig that would help me out a ton...

gumtown

The midi implementation document is for programmers.
All that 1111's and 0000's is about system exclusive data.

A quite a bit more than ordinary midi cc# functions.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

joaquin123

oh gotcha.  So where is the non system exclusive data? Like the cc's etc. you were saying?  I looked but didn't see it in the regular manual either.

gumtown

In side the SY-300, you would use one of the "Midi Assigns" to map a cc# message to a SY-300 parameter.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

QuoteSo where is the non system exclusive data? Like the cc's etc. you were saying?  I looked but didn't see it in the regular manual either.
See SY-300 Parameter guide page 16-20 for CTL / EXP Assigns
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15226.0









joaquin123

Thanks.  Very imformative.  Although I didn't see a way to perform preset switching and mapping out my user patches to my foot controller?

Adamixoye

Can MIDI CCs be mapped directly to the CTL functions (CTL1, CTL2, etc.)?  I can't figure out how to do this.  Seems like an oversight (unless I'm just missing it).

gumtown

Quote from: Adamixoye on February 07, 2016, 12:53:36 PM
Can MIDI CCs be mapped directly to the CTL functions (CTL1, CTL2, etc.)?  I can't figure out how to do this.  Seems like an oversight (unless I'm just missing it).
No, you can't map a cc# function to operate a CTL pedal,
but you can map a cc# to operate any parameter, including the functions tied to a CTL pedal.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Adamixoye

Quote from: gumtown on February 11, 2016, 10:43:57 AM
No, you can't map a cc# function to operate a CTL pedal,
but you can map a cc# to operate any parameter, including the functions tied to a CTL pedal.

Thanks for the answer.  This seems like an obvious thing to add to a firmware update.  I know I can change any parameter with MIDI, it just seems like it would be a better, more flexible system if I set up the CTL functions on a patch-by-patch basis, then had fixed MIDI commands corresponding to those commands.  (For example, setting a MIDI command to control a parameter for a specific FX type in the FX4 slot will only be relevant for a small number of patches.)

Elantric

#46
QuoteThis seems like an obvious thing to add to a firmware update.

One must remember this is a Roland / Boss product - so we know chances of a SY-300 firmware update are none to nill.

Threeleggedyoyo

Reading up on this unit and had some questions regarding assigns...

1) Can the On / Off button be reassigned? Does its typical function (turning the Synth on and off) count as an Assign if you don't change it?
2) Do CC# commands do anything prior to specific assignments? Many values are relatively standard on most synths (pitch bend, etc).

I was hoping for more assigns. I prefer to have a small number of patches with dedicated buttons for my most-used effects (similar to manual mode on the GT-100, which this unit is in the running to replace). Unfortunately there's about 6 of those I'd like to have accessible on any given patch, and then one or two that could be unique to each patch. :( I wonder why they didn't use the traditional 8 Assigns.

chrish

#48
There's a total of 5 switches (control switches 1,2 and 3 on the machine and 4&5 external or an exp pedal) that can have up to 6 assigns each.

There are also 4 knobs that can be assigned to targets and those can be thought of as 8 knobs because those knob assigns change function depending upon which quick knob page is selected (page 1 or 2).

There is also an internal wave and midi cc#s that can be assigned to target parameters.

The on\off switch can not be reassigned to control target parameters. It can do some output Jack stuff along with the quick knobs (see page 8 of the owners manual).



Threeleggedyoyo

Quote from: chrish on April 19, 2017, 07:38:18 AM
There's a total of 5 switches (control switches 1,2 and 3 on the machine and 4&5 external or an exp pedal) that can have up to 6 assigns each.

There are also 4 knobs that can be assigned to targets and those can be thought of as 8 knobs because those knob assigns change function depending upon which quick knob page is selected (page 1 or 2).

There is also an internal wave and midi cc#s that can be assigned to target parameters.

The on\off switch can not be reassigned to control target parameters. It can do some output Jack stuff along with the quick knobs (see page 8 of the owners manual).


Oh. I thought it was 6 Assignments total, not per CTL button.

So between the 5 CTL buttons and CC# commands coming from a MIDI controller, how many parameters could I turn on and off in a single patch (using I used exactly one parameter per button)?

I really just want several buttons that each turn a single effect on and off. How many of those could I get in a single patch assuming I had a MIDI controller with infinite switches each sending a CC# command?