JamOrigin - MIDI Guitar = Polyphonic Guitar to MIDI Software

Started by Charles5150, December 15, 2012, 05:18:42 AM

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Brak(E)man

After trying the exact same set up as with the fretless nylon acoustic , but with a fretless SG , I can say that there's a huge difference in the lower register, so i guess that the body resonance is the major issue at the moment with hooking up a acoustic to MG
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

cooltouch

Oh well -- another possibility would be to go with the RMC saddle transducers (and accompanying circuitry) for a 13-pin hookup to GR and VG systems. I used to own a Godin Multiac that was GR capable. Each string had an individual saddle that was a separate metal transducer unit. Given that they're metal I'm thinking they would probably sound fine acoustically. The Multiac, when played as if it were just a straight electric, had good sustain. But being a solid-body (more or less -- I think it may have been chambered), it sounded like the Chet Atkins Gibson solid body nylon string, which is to say it had a very plastic sound quality to it.

I pulled the frets from my classical last night. It took a bit longer than I estimated -- 15 minutes instead of 10. Even when using the soldering iron to heat up the frets for removal, I still got a small amount of chipping so I'm going to have to do some filling before I do any marker inlay. The whole process will be an afternoon's project. If I can get started on it tomorrow afternoon, I should have it strung up by tomorrow evening.


Best,
Michael

Brak(E)man

The rcm would be too expensive and too much work to have on all the acoustic guitars,
the one thing about JO MG that I really like is that I can use the pickups in all the guitars
I tried the 12 string unison tuned steel-stringed acoustic (six-course )
today in mono mode , here's a short clip
this has a under the bridge piezo and a built in preamp
(so it has a more nasal sound then the transducer)
otherwise it's the same set up as before



swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

A longer test with acoustic fretless nylon stringed guitar through
a softsynth  and a software live looper + the nylon fretless sound with a resonance plugin
the same setup as earlier


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7531.msg77964#msg77964
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

#154

A JH homage or fromage PH





https://soundcloud.com/brakophonic-brak-e-man/purple-haze




Anders Berg // Bass , Drums and Noise
Gunnar Backman // Fretted and Fretless acoustic and virtual Guitar

acoustic fretless nylon stringed guitar through
a softsynth  and a software live looper + the nylon fretless sound with a resonance plugin
the same setup as earlier + a Ovation Breadwinner through a laptop amp-emulator

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Synth Nicolas

I saw this on the internet the Jam Origin MIDI Guitar for under 100 bucks and no pickup????
Did anyone try it? Can't believe that this working good. If so we don't need FTP or GK or Axon anymore....
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

Elantric


Synth Nicolas

Just finding out about this. How are the findings after some years now? how is it holding up against Tripleplay and Roland GK?
What are the pros and cons. Have read some pages but not all. Can someone give a short update? Thanks!
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

Elantric

It gets the job done.
Same developer has IPad / win/ OSX / GarageBand versions too.
Many enjoy the fact this app allows wireless guitars to drive MIDI synths.
IMHO , it will never be as fast and low latency as TriplePlay, nor allow the full Feature set of premium divided pickup based hardware guitar to MIDI systems, like fretboard range /string splits to drive separate synths at same time.


There are competitors, but most have bailed after seeing what Jam Origin provides.

Although there remain other third party option for real time guitar to MIDI on IOS IPad.
http://www.secretbasedesign.com/apps/midimorphosis


But Jam Origin works as good as a software only based real time guitar to MIDI app can. Be sure to go to the developers site.


http://jamorigin.com/midi-guitar/index.html


And know that if you need non real time guitar to MIDI , Sonar has this capability
http://blog.cakewalk.com/easy-audio-to-midi/


and most agree Celemony Melodyne performs this task best.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4764.msg32262#msg32262

cooltouch

Quote from: Elantric on May 03, 2014, 09:23:24 AM

There are competitors, but most have bailed after seeing what Jam Origin provides.

Although there remain other third party option for real time guitar to MIDI on IOS IPad.
http://www.secretbasedesign.com/apps/midimorphosis

[ . . . ]

And know that if you need non real time guitar to MIDI , Sonar has this capability
http://blog.cakewalk.com/easy-audio-to-midi/


I've watched the Midimorphosis demo a few times, and I honestly find it much more impressive than the last version of the JamOrigins beta I tried. Although it's restricted to iOS, I plan to purchase a copy for my iPad soon.


Thanks for the heads-up on the Sonar X3 feature. I wasn't aware of this. I'm still using X2 and have been dragging my feet with respect to upgrading, but perhaps this may push me across. I don't need real-time MIDI conversion, and I've always used my GR-33 for this in the past, but being able to pass any guitar track through this "filter" can be a significant advantage.

Best,
Michael

Synth Nicolas

Thanks for the replies. Think I will try the demo. Didn't know about Midimorphosis. Will have a look at that to.
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

Jim Williams

Midimorphosis does not work as well as Midiguitar but it does have some features that are nice. For best results run it in mono there is a bit of a lag in polly.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

Synth Nicolas

#162
Trying out the Midi Guitar software. I am not disappointing. Tracking is not bad. Only if you play more notes at the same it doesn't track all the notes. Especially not notes on the lower strings high on the neck when playing as a chord.

I have two question:
-I doesn't follow guitar bendings. I have pitch bend enabled. Are bending/vibrato still not supported? that would be a  deal breaker for me.
-I am using Ableton. The Midi Guitar instructions say that I should select the audio track that has Midi Guitar as the input of a Midi track. But in 'Midi From' tab it doesn't show the audio track. So right now I am not able to use other vst synths only the build in Midi Guitar sounds.

Any ideas?
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

Elantric

http://jamorigin.com/docs/midi-guitar-for-win-mac/daw-setup-guides/#toggle-id-1

In Preferences / Audio, check that Audio Input Device and Audio Output Device are correct.
In Preferences / Audio, check that In/Out Sample Rate is 44100
In Preferences / Audio, check that Buffer Size is 256 or 128 samples
In Preferences / File Folder, set "Use VST Plug-in System Folders" to Yes on Mac OS X and make sure the MIDI Guitar VST is found on Windows.
Press Tab key to access Arrangement View
Click "I-O" button to show In/Out section
Click "M" button to show Mixer section
Make sure you have an Audio Track named "1 Audio" and a MIDI track named "2 MIDI"
Add MIDI Guitar VST to "1 Audio" track
Click "In" button on the "1 Audio track" to verify that MIDI Guitar works with your audio interface.
Select "1 Audio" as "Input Type" for "2 MIDI" track to redirect MIDI from MIDI Guitar to your MIDI track.
Arm recording for "2 MIDI" track to record MIDI from MIDI Guitar.
Click Record and then Play to start recording MIDI from MIDI Guitar.





Published on Jan 7, 2013
How to use JamOrigins MIDI Guitar VST with Ableton Live 8

Get MIDI Guitar here: http://www.jamorigin.com/midi-guitar/...

Synth Nicolas

#164
Quote from: Elantric on May 06, 2014, 03:32:06 PM
Select "1 Audio" as "Input Type" for "2 MIDI" track to redirect MIDI from MIDI Guitar to your MIDI track.

Yes I have followed the exact instructions. But my audio track doesn't show up at my Midi tracks input. I can not select it. I can select Midi Guitar#1 but that's not it.
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

Elantric


Synth Nicolas

ok thanks. Not sure if it's a Midi Guitar or Ableton issue though. What about the guitar pitch bends? are those still not supported?
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

Elantric

Pitch bend is supported - read the Documentation.

Your target Synth must have its pitch bend range setting match the same range as in MIDI Guitar

See MIDI Guitar's Pitch Bend settings in the lower center screenshot here


Synth Nicolas

#168
Quote from: Elantric on May 06, 2014, 04:02:55 PM
Pitch bend is supported - read the Documentation.

Which documentation are you referring to? Can't find it on the website. Pitch bend suddenly worked not sure what went wrong...
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl


Synth Nicolas

Thanks for that. I saw that too. But when you click documentation there is very little to see beside that general short text.
Beginning to like Midi Guitar! Managed to get the soft synths going but still not able to records midi by getting the audio in in midi input. Think I will contact Jam Origin.
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

Elantric

http://www.musicappblog.com/midi-guitar-review/

MIDI Guitar review – audio-to-MIDI conversion app from Jam Origin
May 9, 2014
MIDI Guitar review – audio-to-MIDI conversion app from Jam Origin
May 9, 2014 by John Leave a Comment
badge appstore lrg MIDI Guitar review – audio to MIDI conversion app from Jam OriginMIDI Guitar logo MIDI Guitar review – audio to MIDI conversion app from Jam OriginI posted a review of the YouRock Guitar MIDI controller for guitar players earlier this week and, having got myself on a MIDI guitar roll, thought I'd follow that up by taking a look at one of the leading audio-to-MIDI convertor apps as a comparison. Jam Origin's app – simply called MIDI Guitar – has been around on the App Store for some time and, in a nutshell, takes an audio signal, identifies the pitch, and then outputs a MIDI note of the same pitch.
However, to coincide with the release of desktop version of the software, Jam Origin have recently launched a major update to the iOS app. Version 2.0 was introduced a few weeks ago and apparently brings some significant improvements in pitch tracking and latency. Indeed, while the iOS app has been around for nearly 2 years, the latest version has clearly benefited from the development work done on the desktop version and both are now based on this newer conversion engine.
Play the blues

I lamented the lot of the MIDI-hungry guitar player in the YouRock Guitar review so I'll not cover all the same ground again here. In short, however, there are a number of technologies that attempt to provide guitarists with a means of getting MIDI data from their guitar playing skills and, even after 25+ years of trying, none of these technologies has really fully cracked the problem.
Three main approaches can be identified; the MIDI pickup, fretboard based note triggers and audio-to-MIDI conversion. Roland's GK-3 pickup is an example of the first and the pickup essentially detects the frequency of vibration of each guitar string and converts that into a pitch and then into a MIDI note. The YouRock Guitar is an example of the second approach with its rubber 'strings' on the neck that are, in effect, sensors so the device knows which string/fret combination you are fingering and therefore which note you want to play.
midi guitar main screen 1024x768 MIDI Guitar review – audio to MIDI conversion app from Jam Origin
MIDI Guitar – audio-to-MIDI conversion for iOS.
And in the third category we get apps such as MIDI Guitar. Here, rather like pitch correction software such as AutoTune which can work in real-time on a live vocal, MIDI Guitar detects the pitch of the incoming guitar note. However, instead of then correcting that note so it is 'in tune', it then converts the detected pitch into the appropriate MIDI note. The problem with this approach (and also with MIDI pickups) is that the pitch detection/MIDI note conversion process does take some time and, while this conversion latency has decreased significantly with faster computer processors, it can still be an issue. Trigger-based approaches such as the YouRock Guitar don't suffer from this but, at the same time, you are not playing a real guitar; just something that looks a bit like a guitar and has the notes in the same places.
Put jam on it

Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar is a free app and, in this free version, you can experiment with the app's various features. However, once you have decided whether it might serve your purposes, there is an IAP for UK£13.99 that removes the occasional time-out messages that appear when you use the various MIDI output options.
I think this 'free+IAP' approach is commendable for this type of app. It allows you to give the technology a through workout to see if you are comfortable with it before you stump up what is, in app terms, a relatively high price. That said, UK£13.99 is significantly less expensive than the desktop version of MIDI Guitar (US$99.95), a switch-based system such as the YouRock Guitar or a MIDI pickup. As all three of these different approaches have their strengths and weaknesses, being able to try before you buy is most welcome whatever the actual cost.
So what does MIDI Guitar offer? Well, perhaps the first thing to say is that this is pretty much plug and play. Providing you have a means of getting decent quality audio from your guitar into your iPhone or iPad (the app is universal), then MIDI Guitar will be able to function. I did my testing using an iRig PRO and had no problems getting audio into MIDI Guitar on my iPad Air test system.
midi guitar multiple notes 1024x245 MIDI Guitar review – audio to MIDI conversion app from Jam Origin
MIDI Guitar offers a choice of output destinations for the MIDI data including Virtual MIDI so it ought to work with pretty much any other iOS app.
The app offers three different forms of MIDI communication. First, it supports Virtual MIDI so it can send MIDI data out to other iOS apps that will accept it. Second, it can transport MIDI data over WiFi so, if you have your iPad or iPhone connected to a desktop Mac or PC via WiFi you could use MIDI Guitar to send MIDI data to a desktop virtual instrument or DAW/sequencer. Finally, if you have the an iOS hardware add-on that offers a cabled MIDI out port, you can use MIDI Guitar to transmit MIDI data out via that route to a hardware MIDI device such as a synth or, again, to the MIDI in of a MIDI interface on a desktop computer. Obviously, a cable-based connection is generally more reliable and faster than using WiFi.
And while I said there are three different modes there is, actually, a fourth mode as the app also provides its own sound source – a simple sample-based acoustic piano – although you are probably only going to use this during some initial testing.
Get connected

MIDI Guitar includes a set of basic instructions for getting everything connected covering each of the three main MIDI routes listed above. However, in truth, the MIDI Guitar element of this is a breeze (the same might not always be said of MIDI over WiFi but I've covered that topic previously on the blog for both Mac and PC users). The main screen is very simply laid out and, depending upon where you want the MIDI data to go, you simply toggle through the available options under the Output Route setting. This includes the test piano sound, virtual MIDI, Network Session 1 (for WiFi), Direct Output (for cable WiFi) and, if you have any suitable MIDI apps running in the background, a entry is also shown for these. The bottom line here is that I had absolutely no problems getting MIDI Guitar to send MIDI data out to my chosen target.
midi guitar latency settings 1024x282 MIDI Guitar review – audio to MIDI conversion app from Jam Origin
MIDI Guitar allows you to choose between low/high latency settings and monophonic or polyphonic pitch detection.
The app automatically detected and selected my iRig PRO audio input and when you hit a string on your guitar, the Input Level Meter lights up to confirm a suitable audio signal has been received. Again, I had no problems with this process and simply used the gain control on the iRig PRO to get a suitable input level signal that didn't flash into the red too often.
Don't be late

The other settings are equally straightforward. You can choose between monophonic or polyphonic modes, low or high latency and the input (MIDI velocity) sensitivity. The latter is useful as it gives you some adjustment to how the app responds depending upon your own particular playing style. In days of (not so) old, monophonic pitch detection was all you got. This was fine if you just wanted to create melody lines or bass parts but not so useful for chords. Fortunately, the sate of the art for pitch detection has moved on considerably and MIDI Guitar also offers a polyphonic mode; chords can now be attempted.
As you might expect, the pitch detection doesn't have to work quite so hard if you choose monophonic rather than polyphonic but, in either case, MIDI Guitar highlights the detected notes along a strip at the base of the screen. Oh, and do remember to tune your guitar before you start. Open tunings are fine but just make sure you use a tuner to do it; being 30-50 cents off for every string might be fine to your ears as everything is in tune in relative terms but MIDI Guitar wants notes that all work relative to 440Hz :-)
Depending upon your generation of iOS device and what other loads you are putting the device under, you can also choose between two latency settings. On my iPad Air I was able to leave MIDI Guitar on the lower 6ms setting without any issues but the 'high' 11ms setting is there if required and uses less CPU.
Does it work?

OK, so the basic setup is fairly straightforward and the potential quite obvious; but does MIDI Guitar actually work? Well, yes it does and, given that I've tried (in hope) many different MIDI Guitar systems over the years and, on the whole, always felt generally underwhelmed, I have to say MIDI Guitar was a bit of a pleasant surprise. And given the very modest price relative to a dedicated hardware solution, the results are way better than the price gives them any right to be. Perfect it is not but value for money it most certainly is.
When used to drive other iOS apps running on the same iPad (and at the lower latency setting mentioned above), in either polyphonic or monophonic modes, MIDI Guitar seemed very responsive. Yes, I think you can perceive just the very slightest of delay between plucking a guitar string and the MIDI notes sounding (and some people will be more sensitive to this than others) but, unless you are playing drums (where even that tiny delay can sometimes throw you off), it is certainly something I could live with.
Equally, I was impressed with just how well the polyphonic mode detects pitch. Yes, you need to be pretty clean with your playing technique but, of the whole, the results are useable once you have put in a little practice and adjusted to what's required. Slow strums (perhaps more fast arpeggios?) work well enough but don't try rhythmic strumming. All this is likely to do is generate a lot of false MIDI notes. Indeed, while I usually play with a pick, I found the best way to play chords was to fingerpick (pluck) them. Even then some care is required but it can be done.
midi guitar network session 1024x259 MIDI Guitar review – audio to MIDI conversion app from Jam Origin
MIDI Guitar can work across a WiFi network to send MIDI data to your desktop computer.
I was also impressed with how well MIDI Guitar coped with hammer-on/pull-off or tapping. Indeed, providing you have the input level set sensibly, tapping (even two-handed tapping) works well enough to enable some quite fast runs to be played. Again, unless your technique is super accurate (mine's not) you will still get some false triggers but, provided you are willing to do a little MIDI editing in your sequencer, it is most certainly useable.
Of course, it's not all good news. As mentioned above, anything but the slowest of strumming is not likely to be well received. In addition, however, MIDI Guitar doesn't seem to do pitch bend. If you do bend a note on your guitar, the app simply 'pitch corrects' to the nearest note centre and then, when you bend so that the nearest note centre changes, the app simply jumps to the new note; there is no simulation of the effect of a pitch bend wheel.
I can appreciate exactly why Jam Origin have gone for this approach. Guitar tuning is a bit of a wild ride at the best of times and building an algorithm that tracks every subtle variation in pitch, while it can be done, would obviously create a trade-off with the number of duff notes generated and, given all the extra pitch information that would be transmitted, the amount of MIDI data that then gets transmitted. Incidentally, the other obvious iOS candidate for audio-to-MIDI conversion – MIDImorphosis by Secret Base Design – does have a pitch-bend option and, sensibly, you can toggle it on/off as required.
No wires?

I didn't get the chance to try MIDI Guitar via a wired MIDI connection to an external MIDI device (synth/desktop sequencer) but I would expect the response to be very similar to using the app with synths on the same iPad. However, I did experiment with the WiFi connection. I hooked up my iPad to my iMac via a dedicated network as usual and then transmitted MIDI data from MIDI Guitar via the Network Session port to various virtual instruments running within Cubase.
On the whole, this worked pretty well. It doesn't, of course, change the quality of the pitch tracking/MIDI note conversion within the app itself. However, what it does do is add a further element of latency as the MIDI data generated is transferred via WiFi to your desktop computer. I don't know what your own experience of this might be but as you get some feedback on the data transfer latency to an iMac when doing this, I know that this can vary somewhat from session to session (for no obvious reason I can think of other than WiFi interference or other traffic sharing the network). For me, at least, more often than not, the overall latency of the two processes (audio-to-MIDI + WiFi MIDI data transfer) just began to get beyond my musical comfort zone. If I was triggering a sound with a slowish attack (a synth pad, for example) it wasn't too distracting. However, for anything with a short attack (drums, piano, etc.) I found the delay between plucking the string and hearing the note just a little off putting.
midi guitar apollo 1024x768 MIDI Guitar review – audio to MIDI conversion app from Jam Origin
MIDI Guitar was quite happy to send MIDI data to Apollo which could then use the faster Bluetooth connectivity to send the data on to my iMac.
Thankfully, under iOS/OSX, we also have the option of Apollo MIDI over Bluetooth. Having connected my iPad and iMac using Apollo, and set MIDI Guitar's output destination to Apollo on my iPad, this provided a noticeable improvement. Still not perfect but certainly preferable to a WiFi connection. The bottom line here though would be that I'd want to explore using a cable-based MIDI connection between iPad and desktop if I was going to rely on MIDI Guitar for any serious amount of MIDI data creation on my desktop system.
In summary

As mentioned earlier, the other obvious candidate in the audio-to-MIDI conversion category on the App Store is MIDImorphosis (UK£5.49). Both apps do a remarkable job given their price and, as an entry into the world of MIDI guitar playing, they are very inexpensive solutions.
MIDImorphosis and MIDI Guitar do the same core job but, equally, also have some differences in their feature set. For example, MIDImorphosis offers that pitch-bend mode I mentioned earlier and also provides dual MIDI ports. However, as you can try MIDI Guitar for free, it clearly is a 'no risk' option if you just want to experiment in the first instance.
If you are a complete newbie to MIDI guitar technology – or perhaps an old hand just looking for a simple solution under iOS – audio-to-MIDI apps like MIDI Guitar and MIDImorphosis have a lot to recommend them. This technology has come a long way in the last few years. Like any MIDI guitar system, it requires some considerable adaptation of playing technique and, while it perhaps doesn't offer some of the features found in a more expensive hardware solution such as the YouRock Guitar or a MIDI pickup like the Roland GK-3, neither does it bring the same financial commitment. As a starting point for a journey into the (sometimes rather murky) world of MIDI guitar playing, Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar therefore has a lot to recommend it.


http://www.musicappblog.com/yourock-guitar-review/

http://www.musicappblog.com/midimorphosis-music-app-review/

http://www.musicappblog.com/midimorphosis-update/

Kenmac

It's been awhile but the folks at Jamorigin are bringing out version 2.0 of MIDI Guitar. More information here: http://jamorigin.com/midi-guitar-2-wait-is-over/
I'm really hoping that version 2.0 will address the inconsistency with chords.
"Let them brush your rock and roll hair."

mbenigni

Quote from: Kenmac on April 22, 2015, 09:23:46 AM
It's been awhile but the folks at Jamorigin are bringing out version 2.0 of MIDI Guitar. More information here: http://jamorigin.com/midi-guitar-2-wait-is-over/
I'm really hoping that version 2.0 will address the inconsistency with chords.

JamOrigin is already very good; any improvement is welcome.  Do you happen to know whether this announcement is for the desktop version, the iOS version, or both?  They've been quiet too long on the iOS front.  I'd love to see pitch bend implemented there.

Headless68