Finally I have decided to buy the VG99 (vs the GR55)

Started by evenfell, February 27, 2013, 08:13:50 AM

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evenfell

Looking forward in patience now for my newly ordered VG99.
Got it for a decent price used (same price as a new GR55 here in Europe)

I just wanted to ask you guys if you think I made the right choice based on my plan which is:
I do not need fx since I have Axe fx2, but I considered variax vs VG99/GR55, to only use it for guitars and tunings, and decided, based on numerous threads on this forum to buy the VG99. I do not need any of the synths offered in GR55, because I do own Omnisphere, Logic, Alchemy and a few other sofsynths.

I am planning to use LOOPY HD on Ipad controlled by some sort of foot controller (logidy) through a JAMHUB or other mixer into the new apogee one ipad coming soon:
GTR1 - Guitar mic output - Axe fx2 output - jamhub ch1 - apogee one - loopy ch1
GTR2 - Guitar 13pin output (or spdif via axe fx) - Roland VG99 output - jamhub ch2 - apogee one  - loopy ch2
MIC - MIC - jamhub ch1 - apogee one - loopy ch3

Apogee - USB powered HUB ch1
Logidy - USB powered HUB ch2
Jamhub - USB powered HUB ch3

So I am planning to record postrock/ambient like music into LOOPY HD from either or both units at the same time controlled by logidy.

So how does this sound for a plan? ;)
Any feedback and tips is much appreciated...








aliensporebomb

#1
The VG-99 is terrific for ambient/post-rock stuff either with or without external synth extras:



This is stereo regular guitar, stereo vg-99 and midi over usb to my computer and several softsynths live:


This is just me with the strat, vg-99, and an ehx stereo memory man audio looper thru some small amplifier speakers with a sub:



You're proposing a much more complicated setup, it certainly is doable but you might find it surprising what the VG-99 can do by itself, the extra stuff might get left behind once you get hip deep into the 99.




My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

Quotebut I considered variax vs VG99/GR55, to only use it for guitars and tunings, and decided, based on numerous threads on this forum to buy the VG99.


Several of us own all three JTV Variax and VG-99 / GR-55.

IMHO - it boils down to this:

Go Roland VG-99 if you want good guitar modelling and - all the potential to make your guitar sound Nothing like a Guitar

Go Line 6 JTV Variax if all you need are meat and potatoes straight up guitar tones, but with Pro road-worthy hardware

( I intentionally omit the GR-55, as after 2 years of ownership, I view it as a seriously flawed product for MY needs  - [sluggish patch change time, limited signal routing, and few controls] )


IMHO, you can not beat the JTV Variax for its intuitive interface, instant access to Alt Tunings, and to my ears  - accurate representations of the guitars its modelling.  Build wise the JTV-59 is the way to go,The JTV-69's have issues -  remove the electronics from the Tyler Variax's and JTV-69 is rather weak guitar IMHO, have to hand pick one, because 70% of the ones I play in stores have build problems  / neck problems - (luckily JTV-69 Necks can be replaced)
I bought my JTV-69 new, and under warranty - I had to spend the first 4 months of ownership dealing with Line6 warranty service (which I found to be excellent)  I'm on my third JTV-69 - which is a keeper.

But the JTV-59 is a nice looking guitar and equals a top of the line PRS SE model - (both are built in the same World Music Factory in Korea).

Couple a JTV Variax with an HD500 and you unlock the JTV guitar knobs to become assignable MIDI CC# Controllers. And the Neutrik Ethercon cable is suitable for real Pro use - unlike the Roland 13 pin cable whose male Plugs must be handled like a fragile crush-able egg. 

If I was told " You are going on a world tour this summer with a pro band"  - (this might seem odd) but without hesitation, I'd use a Line6 JTV Variax and HD-500 + Fishman Tripleplay and a MacBook and have all bases covered.

Again - why does this forum even exist?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6.msg10#msg10
Because Roland came real close to providing the greatest Toolset for modern guitarists - we are here to fill in the missing bits, and workarounds, and because most of us love guitar technology -regardless of the supplier.
   

but back to your other gear - you will have many  options (which I can tell you might not be ideal)

Re Jamhub - read this doc in our Download Library
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=22

But - stay tuned - I came up with a Jamhub "Fanout box" that would allow direct interface of Jamhub to a Presonus 1818VSL - for multitrack recording from Jamhub

Kevin M

I think you made a great choice. The 99, for all of its noted shortcomings, is a great product and its signal routing options make the 55 look like a useless toy.

evenfell

Quote from: Elantric on February 27, 2013, 09:12:38 AM

Several of us own all three JTV Variax and VG-99 / GR-55.

IMHO - it boils down to this:

Go Roland VG-99 if you want all the potential to make your guitar sound Nothing like a Guitar

Go Line 6 JTV Variax if all you need are meat and potatoes straight up guitar tones, but with Pro road-worthy hardware

( I intentionally omit the GR-55, as after 2 years of ownership, I view it as a seriously flawed product for MY needs  - [sluggish patch change time, limited signal routing, and few controls] )


IMHO, you can not beat the JTV Variax for its intuitive interface, instant access to Alt Tunings, and to my ears  - accurate representations of the guitars its modelling.  Build wise the JTV-59 is the way to go,The JTV-69's have issues -  remove the electronics from the Tyler Variax's and JTV-69 is rather weak guitar IMHO, have to hand pick one, because 70% of the ones I play in stores have build problems  / neck problems - (luckily JTV-69 Necks can be replaced)
I bought my JTV-69 new, and under warranty - I had to spend the first 4 months of ownership dealing with Line6 warranty service (which I found to be excellent)  I'm on my third JTV-69 - which is a keeper.

But the JTV-59 is a nice looking guitar and equals a top of the line PRS SE model - (both are built in the same World Music Factory in Korea).

Couple a JTV Variax with an HD500 and you unlock the JTV guitar knobs to become assignable MIDI CC# Controllers. And the Neutrik Ethercon cable is suitable for real Pro use - unlike the Roland 13 pin cable whose male Plugs must be handled like a fragile crush-able egg. 

If I was told " You are going on a world tour this summer with a pro band"  - (this might seem odd) but without hesitation, I'd use a Line6 JTV Variax and HD-500 + Fishman Tripleplay and a MacBook and have all bases covered.

Again - why does this forum even exist?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6.msg10#msg10
Because Roland came real close to providing the greatest Toolset for modern guitarists - we are here to fill in the missing bits, and workarounds, and because most of us love guitar technology -regardless of the supplier.
   

but back to your other gear - you will have many  options (which I can tell you might not be ideal)

Re Jamhub - read this doc in our Download Library
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=22

But - stay tuned - I came up with a Jamhub "Fanout box" that would allow direct interface of Jamhub to a Presonus 181VSL - for multitrack recording from Jamhub

Thanks for this long answer.

I have used the last 2 years to buy, try and sell equipment.
I have had high end guitars and high end pedals.
I have had POD HD500 and Eleven rack (but decided to sell them both, and almost all my pedals, to fund an Axe fx2, and have never looked back)
Perhaps I did not give the hd500 a decent run, or explored all its abilities. I wish I had tried a variax guitar with, but I never have.

I considered to go the route with variax but I did not like the neck on it. My main guitar is a Yamaha pacifica 1230s with a flat neck profile (even thiner than ibanez wizard) that I just love to play with. I considered for a long time to buy and try a variax jtv89f, but ended up with VG99 instead. (which I now consider stopping the order, and try variax instead). Not an easy choice all of this gear. ;)

But my main use for modeled gear is to have a guitar system that I can play aucustic models and tunings into the axe fx.
I have also considered the route VARIAX JTV - HD500 (as foot controller for variax, effects and axe fx) - Axe FX - RECORDER (mac or ipad)
Using jamorigins midi to lay synths on my mac, or invest in a fishman triple play when they finally come out.

A little confused here I guess, and cant really decide what to get. ;)

Elantric

#5
QuoteNot an easy choice all of this gear. ;)

TOTALLY AGREE!

QuoteI have used the last 2 years to buy, try and sell equipment.

Ive been doing the same since 1967 - but My needs may not match your needs.

You might be a candidate for the brand new JTV89F - with locking Floyd Rose. Its supposed to replicate an Ibanez Wizard profile neck and flat 12" radius neck
http://line6.com/jtv-89f/




They now include the Variax Workbench USB interface  - so the HD500 is not needed. Although the HD-500 can be simply used as a MIDI Foot Controller, provide MIDI CC# controls on the JTV to control the AXE-FX - and the HD500 acts as a backup amp modeller should the AXE-FX fail at a gig.

So JTV-89F  + Axe FX would get you a nice robust rig.

But realize that combo will never get you into the VG-99 sonic landscape of Adrian Belew or AlienSporeBomb or Bill Ruppert.

Smash

Quote from: evenfell on February 27, 2013, 10:08:27 AM

....to have a guitar system that I can play aucustic models ....

Based on that statement alone your choice has to be Variax - the 99 acoustics can't live with the Variax models sadly.

Kevin M

Quote from: Smash on February 27, 2013, 12:42:41 PM
Based on that statement alone your choice has to be Variax - the 99 acoustics can't live with the Variax models sadly.

And none truly come close to that of a real acoustic guitar!  :-). A slight edge to the Variax, but they're both a bit 'rubbery' in my opinion.

Elantric

As always - a tool in the right hands can deliver impressive results.
Back when Bill Ruppert still had his VG-99 demos online, one could truly hear all that the VG-99 was capable off, and his Ibanez JEM with GK-3 and VG-99 delivered amazing sounding acoustic guitars   

Smash

I know what you're saying but playing to the strengths of a patch is different to playing what you actually want to play.

I can only go off what I know from the Variax I used to own - I think we all agree that the stock Roland acoustic patches are not good, the ones users have generously posted up here are way, waaaay ahead of what Roland provide but still they don't match the Variax I had - all IMHO of course. Maybe it's because I always run through full range monitors I don't know - I honestly thought it was more than a slight edge. It is possible that my glasses are adopting a slightly pinkish tint of course!

I'd love to hear Bill's demos because I've yet to hear the VG deliver a convincing solo acoustic (unless we're talking about DI'd piezo stuff)

Elantric

#10
Quote
I'd love to hear Bill's demos because I've yet to hear the VG deliver a convincing solo acoustic (unless we're talking about DI'd piezo stuff)

Those are not coming back online anytime soon, since they imply an endorsement of the product. (Today, Bill works with Electro-Harmonix)


Bill Ruppert wrote>
QuoteAs you know this is what I do for a living and for me to put together all the demos I did for Roland took countless hours.
As a musician I work to buy my food, health insurance, home taxes, cars,etc. etc. etc.
The demos I did for Roland were effective and they were helping to sell product, I am sure of it.
The fact I was not being paid for my work was the reason I pulled all the demos.
Yes I believe the VG99 is one of the greatest things on earth, but if I'm going to work to sell them I need to be paid.
I don't remodel bathrooms by day and do this for fun when I come home on the weekends.
It's my job and what i do to feed  my family.


(But I agree - Compared to a Variax, the default VG-99 Acoustic Guitars (when used with a GK-3) feel "disconnected" and "rubbery / flubby"  - to me too. The VG-99 Acoustic guitar tone improves when used with a RMC Piezo guitar, but then some of the Hi-Gain tones suffer  {GK-3 works better than piezo's for that} )

But Sound and Physics remain constant -

This is a MUST Youtube Channnel to Subscribe to:
Bill's Effectology Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/Effectology/featured

Learn all about guitar sound design by watching Bill's Effectology Videos and learn new techniques and signal routing strategies - many can be directly applied to the VG-99


Smash

Bloody hell - the man has inhumanly long fingers! Very,very impressive sound sculpting - there is man who knows his craft very well indeed and impressively inventive.

It's a real shame I can't track down any of examples of his of VG straight modelling - the synth emulations and effects are unbelievable but not really what floats my boat. Understanding how the changing envelop of a struck note affects the tone of the amp and how the amp in turn reacts to the input level changing, compression, EQ variance as clipping occurs, major and minor harmonics, the shape of the clipping - all that and how to go about emulating it. Nuances. That's what I can end up losing myself on a patch trying to do these days - I often find I take too many steps in a direction I find out is wrong only after I've made the steps and retracing is often very difficult or impossible. A few patches have been junked through this. Funnily enough despite dissing the VG acoustic tone, that very fact has me half way through trying to come up with something more convincing than I've heard so far. Even just today I had an idea for a different way of engineering that thump of struck string and trying to get a more harmonically rich tone which is where I think the VG fails so badly. Waffling now so will shut up.

Elantric

#12
Quotethere is man who knows his craft very well indeed and impressively inventive.

Back in 2009 , Roland only offered Bill a free T-Shirt, and "no thanks -  we already have a great product support team"
  the rest is history.

On YouTube there are many VG-99 straight guitar demos

Look here and listen:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2972.msg17974#msg17974

maxdaddy

I bought the VG-99 in late 2007 and have always said that it was the best money I'd ever spent on music gear. I love it and I've completely converted to VGuitar. I don't use any traditional pickup guitars anymore, so without it, I would really have to scramble to be able to make a gig.

In the desire to have redundancy in my gear, in case something happened to the VG-99, I am debating whether to buy a second VG-99 to keep as a spare, or buy a GR-55 and enjoy some of the nice things that it does, like the on-board synth sounds.  I figure that if I bought a GR-55 and started using it now, IN ADDITION to  the VG-99, I would still be able to cover my bases, so to speak, if something happened to either of them.

I THOUGHT I was ready to buy a GR-55, until I read some of the comments from the folks on this list whose opinions and assessments I trust about these two pieces of gear.

In your opinion (guys who have both) would I be better to buy a spare VG-99 as a true backup and figure out how to trigger soft-synths in my iPad from the VG-99 or buy a GR-55?

Thanks in advance.

musicman65

I bought a GR55 on the group buy with the intent of replacing my VG99 and rack synth with an all-in-one device. I found it unusable. It has too many limitations that must be accommodated. After that, I bought a 2nd VG99/FC300, a SonicCell Synth, and a Kemper Profiling Amp which will be the platform for my next live rig. My old VG99 rig works so well, I am making little progress in replacing it. The 2nd VG99 stays in my studio.

I have a PodXT "bean" I carry as a fallback if my VG99 dies. I would have to go with straight guitar but thats ok. I've never had a Roland device fail in 30 years. I still have a DM5 drum machine from the early 80's that is used daily.

bd

Kevin M

Quote from: Elantric on February 28, 2013, 12:51:43 PM
Back in 2009 , Roland only offered Bill a free T-Shirt, and "no thanks -  we already have a great product support team"
  the rest is history.

On YouTube there are many VG-99 straight guitar demos

Look here and listen:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2972.msg17974#msg17974

I wonder how many sales this decision cost them.  It's really hard to prove a device is so awesome with such mind-numbingly bad patches stored in it from the factory.

Elantric

#16
Quotewonder how many sales this decision cost them.  It's really hard to prove a device is so awesome with such mind-numbingly bad patches stored in it from the factory.

True!

But here's my  thoughts and opinion on how Roland US's lack of Dealer education and blasé cavalier "Oh-whatever" attitude on a simple matter of "what do we call the 13 Pin Cable? - all helped to slow VG-99 sales.

Test: Go to most any Guitar Center and you will find the Roland 13 pin cables are typically never stocked in the Guitar department, instead they are stocked over in the Keyboard department - with 5pin MIDI Cables. Many Roland Dealers put the VG-99 demo station in the Keyboard department too, particularly if they know they must sell the floor model.
Seems most keyboard players have a better understanding of tech, and studio wiring, compared to most guitarists, who prefer to hold the same guitar as their hero icon, while posing in a mirror, playing the same tired SRV lick over and over.



Click here and see how many folks (and many new VGuitarForums members) STILL call this 13 pin cable a "MIDI" cable
http://bit.ly/YaDgM7
and

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5188.msg56700#msg56700

if you examine the details of the GK-3, it becomes apparent MIDI has never existed in ANY 13 pin interface from Roland or Any other manufacturer at anytime.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7893.msg56178#msg56178

Only confused marketing departments and Guitar Center floor managers refer to the Roland GK13 pin cable as MIDI.

(Hint: they spread this same misinformation to all guitarists, which damages the brand)


When Roland dealers call the GK13 pin cable a "MIDI cable", THIS KILLED VG-99 SALES in my Opinion

Even casual MIDI guitar users know Guitar to MIDI has a battle with latency and mis-triggered Notes that make you look like a fool at the live gig.

Many Newbies and younger guitarists hear the word MIDI, think

"dead old school 30 year old tech that should have died"

and never look at a Zero Latency VG-99 because they think:

"it uses that 13pin MIDI cable, I don't want those latency delays."

One more reason why lazy Roland Marketing departments should be fired, since they continue to not deal with the general public's mis informed idea of what a Roland GK 13 Pin interface actually Is and what a GK-3 actually does.

Only Roland Japan Corporate Global site tries to clear up the confusion

http://www.roland.com/V-Guitar/about.html

   



----

Bill Ruppert VG-99 patches
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=711.0

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=711.0

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6134.msg44353#msg44353

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=800.0



This is a MUST Youtube Channnel to Subscribe to:
Bill's Effectology Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/Effectology/featured

Learn all about guitar sound design by watching Bill's Effectology Videos and learn new techniques and signal routing strategies - many can be directly applied to the VG-99 and GR-55.

cell7

Quote from: maxdaddy on February 28, 2013, 07:30:23 PM
I THOUGHT I was ready to buy a GR-55, until I read some of the comments from the folks on this list whose opinions and assessments I trust about these two pieces of gear.

In your opinion (guys who have both) would I be better to buy a spare VG-99 as a true backup and figure out how to trigger soft-synths in my iPad from the VG-99 or buy a GR-55?

Thanks in advance.

Im in the same boat - and my call is to get a 2nd vg99 [when i see a used one at a good price] - i am also using a midified iphone for the softsynths etc [and an ipad for an extra channel] and to be honest i couldnt deal with the limitations of the gr55.


EJROCKS

I would agree that the gr55 is way inferior to the VG99.  I have both and use both but mostly when Im using the GR its to try to make it sound as good as the VG and I seem to always fall short.  The Gr is clumsy to program and the parameters dont work well with each other.   On my VG I love being able to use my guitars regular pick ups and go back to a virtual patch with the touch of a botton.   I was thrilled when the GR first came out.  I thought Roland had done it.  Putting everything together in a small easy transported device.   Its a shame how far they fell short.  Many occasions I thought of selling the GR but I do still enjoy the piano function eventhough the ghost notes drive me nuts.
Id like to hear more about the Kemper technology.   Im also very interested in the axe fx ability to clone a sound.   Any info on these would be great!!!

Avatar

Hi guys'

Been busy, finally got to play with my SY 300 for a long time....

Now, I've got some bug or is it the same bug GAS ????
I've got this strange anxiety to buy some more  Roland gear.
Looking at the GR 55 now , then came here and it seems that I should buy the VG 99 instead.
What is a decent going price these days for a good VG 99????
What should I look for?

Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thanks !!

It sounds good, but we'll need to raise the tempo up one octave.

chrish

#21
a couple of weeks ago I purchased a demo return vg99 from a roland dealer with a full warrenty, with gk-3, 13 pin cable (i now have 4 of those and have had zero problems, oldest being 25 years old) and shipping for $569.

there are lots of used units that have been posted on ebay and reverb that have not sold. Some of them are re-posted and some are not. I would make an offer, which is what i did, if you find one that is in good shape.

There have been several Sam Ash store demos posted recently on reverb.com and i think the went for around $500.

Try to find a later manufactured unit as i have read here the models that were produced when solder changed  from lead based to silver based had some potential problems.

Re the 13 pin cable, i think that some people have problems with them because they are wound too tight and need better strain relief methods. Always wind cables in a loose circle and not like a bow tie.

Avatar

Quote from: chrish on August 16, 2016, 08:42:53 AM
a couple of weeks ago I purchased a demo return vg99 from a roland dealer with a full warrenty, with gk-3, 13 pin cable (i now have 4 of those and have had zero problems, oldest being 25 years old) and shipping for $569.

there are lots of used units that have been posted on ebay and reverb that have not sold. Some of them are re-posted and some are not. I would make an offer, which is what i did, if you find one that is in good shape.

There have been several Sam Ash store demos posted recently on reverb.com and i think the went for around $500.

Try to find a later manufactured unit as i have read here the models that were produced when solder changed  from lead based to silver based had some potential problems.

Re the 13 pin cable, i think that some people have problems with them because they are wound too tight and need better strain relief methods. Always wind cables in a loose circle and not like a bow tie.

Thanks for your reply.... I've always wrapped my cables in a coil and use Velcro Bands to hold them.
I've found that that last longer than the other way too.
It sounds good, but we'll need to raise the tempo up one octave.

chrish

Yea, any audio cable can fail. When our band played gigs (i did the set up and mixed the sound) i had an old plastic suit case full of cords and our snake was wrapped on a reel. Good luck with the search for a 99.

alexmcginness

VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.