Cycfi Six Pack Project - Hexaphonic Pickup Project

Started by Elantric, May 24, 2013, 04:33:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

cags12

#100
I have not installed any Cycfi gear yet but I have spent a LOT of time studying them so I may give my cents here.

Quote from: scratch17 on August 23, 2017, 10:03:57 PM
Ideally I'd just replace the 13 pin jack on the guitar with a Lemo jack, and use a Nexus for breakout but I don't think I have enough audio channels available. Doing a little arithmetic, I would need two hex audio channels and a mono audio channel for the XR pickups. That is 13 total. The Nexus only supports 12, leaving only 3 CV channels. I suppose I could use the TRS jack on the back of the guitar to carry the XR pickups' audio.
In theory you could re-purpose channel 13, 14 or 15 for you Mono audio, they are analog lines anyway. It may need a bit of hacking of the breakout board and Nexus box. Well the Nexus box was created to be hackable, go figure.
Joel from Cycfi would for sure have a solution for you in this case.

From a circuitry point of view of the breakout board, I do not see much difference between channels 9, 10, 11, 12 with 13, 14, 15. Possibly the "hack" would have to be only on the Nexus side.


Edit: I just checked
https://github.com/cycfi/nexus/raw/master/Breakout_Box/Main_Board/Main_Board_Schematics.pdf
The NEXUS side have jumpers to select between audio or CV. For the exclusive CV channels 13, 14 and 15 there aren't any. You would have to "intercept" and divert the mono channel (13) right in the connector before it hits the main board. Or alternatively, if you do not get the MIDI module, you could use CH13_CV pin of the mixer module. If you do get the MIDI module, you will have to somehow break CH13_CV that goes to the MIDI module (you do not want to feed audio to a CV line).

Edit 2: And final option is to use the expansion NC pins. This is probably the easiest option as it would not conflict with anything. Also, I guess they are there for this kind of situations.

Quote
I definitely will have to add a Lemo connection to my Brian Moore, one way or the other. I have the woodworking chops to do that. I have the routers, bits, and the ability to build templates to create void spaces for the Cycfi electronics. I haven't opened up the guitar yet to scope out its insides. So I am unsure where I would place the Cycfi electronics and the Lemo jack if I kept the 13 pin jack.
I believe for simplicity it is better to stick only with the Lemo Jack and have Gumbo's 13-pin connector installed on the Nexus box. This is driven by my previous comment above.


Quote
I have an FC-300 and a MMGT10 to control patch and bank changes on my VG-99. In fact I'd be doing just about all MIDI control from the MMGT10. As a result, I do not need the S1/S2 switches. So I am unsure why I'd need more than three channels of CV. I don't think I need the CV switch either.

If you do your switching with a foot controller, then you do not really need any CV controls on the guitar really. Only for Volume of the Nu's that unfortunately cannot be done with an analog audio pot.

Quote
I would want 'synth' (hex piezo) volume, NU hex volume, and volume for the XR pickups. For the Nu Hex I think I need a CV pot for volume. That takes a channel of CV. And that means I need the MIDI module for the Nexus. Am I correct?
This is correct from my understanding. However, you mentioned that the NUs would only be used in your DAW. I take this is for Studio and not live. In such case you could opt to not install the NUs CV volume on the guitar and control the volume on you DAW or expression pedal of your foot controller.

Quote
I would like to use the mixer module. But I don't want to cannibalize the output jacks. Can you modify the Nexus by adding dedicated output jacks for the mixer module?

I think this can be done with no issues. Again I would refer to Joel@Cycfi.

Quote
I am pretty sure I'd want the Resonant Filter pots (Q and Frequency) for the XR pickups. I'd also like to have the blend pot and a the 5 way pickup selector switch.  That's six pots. I suppose I could replace the S1/S2 switches with pots.

Joel is working on a new version of the Resonant Filter. My understanding is that there will be a filter per pickup and not a general one like it is today. I believe he is looking for trim pots or something with smaller footprint. Still to be confirmed.

GuitarBuilder

#101
Quote from: arkieboy on August 24, 2017, 04:17:11 AM
I don't much use any of the guitar mounted controls on my GK3/RMC equipped guitars: my mix-switch is always set to blend; I control volume and switches from my FC/FCB units; I do everything else via patch changes.

That's perfect!  Do the same installation I have.

Quote from: arkieboy on August 24, 2017, 04:17:11 AMWhat space does this take up inside a guitar?  Could you get the boards inside a trem spring cavity safely?

The only board you need is a Nu Breakout board, which easily fits in the trem spring cavity (it is tiny, 1"x 1.5").  I have mine mounted under the pickguard in a standard size Strat cavity.

Please see my post detailing the full build here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21551.0
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: cags12 on August 24, 2017, 04:32:25 AM
I have not installed any Cycfi gear yet but I have spent a LOT of time studying them so I may give my cents here.
In theory you could re-purpose channel 13, 14 or 15 for you Mono audio, they are analog lines anyway. It may need a bit of hacking of the breakout board and Nexus box. Well the Nexus box was created to be hackable, go figure.
Joel from Cycfi would for sure have a solution for you in this case.

From a circuitry point of view of the breakout board, I do not see much difference between channels 9, 10, 11, 12 with 13, 14, 15. Possibly the "hack" would have to be only on the Nexus side.


Edit: I just checked
https://github.com/cycfi/nexus/raw/master/Breakout_Box/Main_Board/Main_Board_Schematics.pdf
The NEXUS side have jumpers to select between audio or CV. For the exclusive CV channels 13, 14 and 15 there aren't any. You would have to "intercept" and divert the mono channel (13) right in the connector before it hits the main board. Or alternatively, if you do not get the MIDI module, you could use CH13_CV pin of the mixer module. If you do get the MIDI module, you will have to somehow break CH13_CV that goes to the MIDI module (you do not want to feed audio to a CV line).

Edit 2: And final option is to use the expansion NC pins. This is probably the easiest option as it would not conflict with anything. Also, I guess they are there for this kind of situations.
I believe for simplicity it is better to stick only with the Lemo Jack and have Gumbo's 13-pin connector installed on the Nexus box. This is driven by my previous comment above.

This is almost correct: I ran into an issue with the Nu Internal Breakout Board that is not all that obvious on the schematic.  Channels 7 and 8 are not accessible via headers; the only connection is through the center flat cable connector.  I ended up using Channel 9 (the first available header) for my XR signal.  The options are to hack a flat cable or hack the output connector, neither of which is very easy.  I suggested to Joel at Cycfi that he add headers for 7 and 8 in a future board revision.

Channels 13-15 should be usable for audio - they can be easily isolated on the main board in Nexus.  You don't have to intercept them at the connector, they are accessible on the Mixer Board headers.  Just disconnect them from the MIDI module to avoid digital noise.  I don't know if Cycfi used any shielding in the cable for the audio vs CV channels - we should check on that.

The NC pins are not wired (Not Connected) on either the Nu Breakout Board or the Nexus Main Board, so they are not an option.  I believe Joel told me the cable is not wired either, but we should confirm that.

Bottom line: you can get Channels 1-6 and 9-15 for audio, for a total of 12, with minimal hacking.  There's no room for mag pickup, XR, or CV signals in addition to that, unless you hack Channels 7-8 (more difficult).  If you really need all 12 separate string signals, I think a better solution would be to run the Nu/Nexus solution in parallel with RMC, i.e. leave the 13-pin output and install the 19-pin connector next to it.

I have a Brian Moore iGuitar also (i81.13) and I really like the piezo acoustic output; however, after playing the Nu directly into a DAW or amp for several weeks I far prefer the Nu audio signal.  It does not have the brittleness of the piezo sound and the extremely wide frequency response gives it a beautiful high fidelity tone, not at all like a single coil pickup.  It lends itself very well to equalization experiments.

Quote from: cags12 on August 24, 2017, 04:32:25 AM
If you do your switching with a foot controller, then you do not really need any CV controls on the guitar really. Only for Volume of the Nu's that unfortunately cannot be done with an analog audio pot.
This is correct from my understanding. However, you mentioned that the NUs would only be used in your DAW. I take this is for Studio and not live. In such case you could opt to not install the NUs CV volume on the guitar and control the volume on you DAW or expression pedal of your foot controller.

I opted to use a dual blend pot on my guitar, with the help of Mark Bellarmino at Cycfi.  For example, you could modify the Piezo Volume pot on your iGuitar to blend Piezo and Nu or Mag Vol and XR, etc.

Please see my post detailing the full build here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21551.0
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

scratch17

Quote
Quote

    I will put a NU/XR Combo pickup in the neck position to replace the stock humbucker in the Brian Moore. This would allow me to layer the magnetic and piezo hex pickup sounds in my DAW. .


But when play with string bending (assuming you do that)  you will experience string drop outs as the string will no longer be directly over the desired NU/XR Combo pickup coil for that string

This is why divided hex pickups are mounted close to the bridge

Admsustainiac, as I was falling asleep last night, I actually had a thought about this problem.

This is a trade-off. The closer to the bridge, the better for string bending and GK devices. But the tone of the hex pickup gets thinner. I wanted to put the pickup in the neck position because I prefer the tone of neck pickups over bridge pickups.

I think I may have two potential solutions for the string bending issue.

These Nu pickups are full range. Even in the bridge position, I think I could use EQ to get pretty close to neck position tone. This  requires the least modification of the guitar. In this scenario, I'd use a NU/XR Combo at the bridge and a Quad XR at the neck.

Or I could replace the two stock pickups with two NU/XR combos. With NU pickups in both positions I could adjust the balance between the two audio streams on each string when I do a string bend. Putting neck position NU on the left side and the bridge position NU on the right side of a stereo DAW track, I could just use pan to readjust the balance to avoid dropouts during string bending. Since the input track is stereo, the pan pot actually controls the balance between left and right input streams.

The issue with this setup is that I would now have 12 channels of audio needed for the two NU pickups. Plus six channels from the RMC piezo output and I'd still need a channel for the mono pickups. I could leave the 13 pin jack in place and add the Lemo jack to the rear of the guitar where the TRS jack is currently in place. I would connect the mono pickups to the 13 pin connector.

GuitarBuilder said:

QuoteBottom line: you can get Channels 1-6 and 9-15 for audio, for a total of 12, with minimal hacking.

I thought no hacking at all is needed if I am willing to use channels 1 through 12 for audio. Am I incorrect?

QuoteIf you really need all 12 separate string signals, I think a better solution would be to run the Nu/Nexus solution in parallel with RMC, i.e. leave the 13-pin output and install the 19-pin connector next to it.

Looks like that's what I will do. Lots of work, though. I can make a new face plate to hold the GK and Lemo jacks. Will I have to widen the channel to contain the GK and Cycfi cabling? Is there any potential RF interference induced by having both cables going through the same channel?

Wouldn't I be better off using the back TRS jack channel for the Lemo jack? I know I would need to slightly widen the TRS channel to accommodate the Lemo jack.

QuoteI have a Brian Moore iGuitar also (i81.13) and I really like the piezo acoustic output; however, after playing the Nu directly into a DAW or amp for several weeks I far prefer the Nu audio signal.  It does not have the brittleness of the piezo sound and the extremely wide frequency response gives it a beautiful high fidelity tone, not at all like a single coil pickup.  It lends itself very well to equalization experiments.

I agree about the brittleness of the piezo sound, by itself. I use a Universal Audio Woodworks plugin to get a more "acoustic recorded with a microphone sound" out of the piezo feeds. It gives great results. I highly recommend it. I've also tweaked the piezo feeds by putting my Fishman Aura processing in line. Not as good as Woodworks, but a lot less expensive.

GuitarBuilder, have you opened up your i813? Is there available space in the guitar for the Cycfi cabling and boards? Will I need to do any extra RF shielding?

QuoteI opted to use a dual blend pot on my guitar, with the help of Mark Bellarmino at Cycfi.  For example, you could modify the Piezo Volume pot on your iGuitar to blend Piezo and Nu or Mag Vol and XR, etc.

I see three pots on your beautiful Strat. You mention the custom blend control with active volume (for the XR Duals) and synth volume. So are they stacked? What does each pot control?

The extra advantage of having a bridge position NU is that I could use it for GK compatible devices like my VG-99. cags12, since I will put a NU in the bridge position, I will use it with the Cycfi 13 pin adapter in the Nexus to drive my VG-99. So I will need the Cycfi CV volume pot. All of my other CV will be done by my MMGT10. I will leave all of the RMC electronics in place as they are, with the exception of the pots and the pickup selector switch. They will get swapped for Cycfi parts.

BTW, has anyone considered using the NU to feed a Fishman Triple Play? Would that be feasible? There is enough room on the i213 for FTP between the bridge and the bridge pickup, but I hate the idea of having the FTP controller on an already crowded surface.



Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: admsustainiac on August 23, 2017, 10:11:16 PM
But when play with string bending (assuming you do that)  you will experience string drop outs as the string will no longer be directly over the desired NU/XR Combo pickup coil for that string 

This is why divided hex pickups are mounted close to the bridge

That is absolutely correct for the typical GK hex magnetic pickup used to drive synths.  However, there are two differences in how scratch17 wants to implement the Nu: a) he's not driving synths, and b) the Nu is considerably larger than the Roland/Shadow type pickups.  The Nu can tolerate a lot of bending before string drop out occurs.

it should work fine in the neck position as well as the bridge.  It's a new paradigm!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

arkieboy

I'd spotted that thread - lovely build BTW.  Wish I had the dosh to get you to build me two more ...


So in the pickguard photo, the only things I would need are the two ribbon cables from the hex pickup, the breakout board and the socket?


----


Not being one to complain - this all looks brilliant - but if that output connector had the board inline rather than at right angles, it looks like it could make a reversible conversion requiring little-to-no routing.  I don't know about anyone else, but if I can reversibly retro-fit a hex pup to my favourite guitar (a custom Patrick Eggle since you ask) that can reliably drive my VG99 without having to remove any wood, then you definitely have my attention.  Both Ghost and RMC options look like I would need to do some routing ...
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

Elantric

#106
QuoteRMC options look like I would need to do some routing ...


FWIW  -folks forget about the RMC offerings

http://www.rmcpickup.com/products.html

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=571.0

http://ubass.free.fr/index.php?page=37&mail=1#

The RMC Hybrid preamp Hybrid is the equivalent of Poly-Drive without the DIN 13 connector. It allows the mixing of six RMC sensors and mixing with magnetic pickups

An absolutely in-e-ga-lable quality!







RMC PolyDrive I
In extremely compact dimensions, Richard Mc Clish's Poly-Drive pre-amp can handle MIDI, piezo and magnetic pickups. Associated with RMC sensors (the best I know) it provides a fast and reliable Midi, as well as an extraordinary piezo sound.

Internal for best instrument appearance
Super-Compact format: 0.9"h.  X  1.25"w.  X  1.5"d.
Retro-fits easily in all standard solid-body guitars
Excellent tracking with all Guitar to MIDI converters, including :
Roland GR-50, GR-09, GR-1, GI-10, GR-30 & GR-33
Yamaha G50       Axon NG-66, NGC-77 and AX-100
Excellent performance with the Roland VG-8, VG-88, VG-A7 and VG-99
Built-in 13 pin DIN output jack & mounting hardware
Built-in Active PIEZO MIX for blending with MAG sound
Built-in Magnetic Pickup (signal) buffer
Power: Phantom via 13-pin jack or onboard battery
Versatile functional design provides Ribbon Cable connections for onboard control of  MAG/PIEZO Blend,  Guitar Volume,  Guitar Tone,  Synth Volume,  Sw1/Sw2  and  Synth/Mix/Guitar 3-pos. selector switch
User-definable onboard controls :  preamp can function without connecting battery, controls or switches
Studio Quality performance 90 dB S/N typical
Summary of Audio Functions

The 6 pickup signals from the RMC sensor saddles are preamplified & equalized separately. The buffered string signals are fed to pins 1 through 6 of the built-in DIN-13 connector. These buffered string signals are also mixed together and further equalized to produce the Saddles Mix signal.
The Mag pickups are buffered using the internal Mag Buffer circuit. The buffered magnetics signal can be combined with the Saddles Mix signal using a BLEND control (pot).

This combined signal is then passed through TONE and VOLUME controls to produce a Mono Guitar output signal which is fed to pin 7 of the DIN-13 connector and also to a 1/4" PHONE JACK.  The Phone Jack turns-on battery power when a regular (mono) guitar cord is inserted.



- Poly-Drive I  miniature onboard polyphonic preamp 

Complete with all necessary hardware including pots, switches, connectors and jackplates as well as easy-to-follow wiring instructions.






GuitarBuilder

#107
Quote from: arkieboy on August 24, 2017, 01:59:23 PM
I'd spotted that thread - lovely build BTW.  Wish I had the dosh to get you to build me two more ...


So in the pickguard photo, the only things I would need are the two ribbon cables from the hex pickup, the breakout board and the socket?

That would be enough for the Nu.

Quote from: arkieboy on August 24, 2017, 01:59:23 PM
Not being one to complain - this all looks brilliant - but if that output connector had the board inline rather than at right angles, it looks like it could make a reversible conversion requiring little-to-no routing.  I don't know about anyone else, but if I can reversibly retro-fit a hex pup to my favourite guitar (a custom Patrick Eggle since you ask) that can reliably drive my VG99 without having to remove any wood, then you definitely have my attention.  Both Ghost and RMC options look like I would need to do some routing ...

Contact Joel @ Cycfi Research.  He made me some custom output connectors without the board for another project; I'm sure he can make you whatever you need.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: Elantric on August 24, 2017, 02:21:51 PM

FWIW  -folks forget about the RMC offerings

http://www.rmcpickup.com/products.html

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=571.0

http://ubass.free.fr/index.php?page=37&mail=1#

The RMC Hybrid preamp Hybrid is the equivalent of Poly-Drive without the DIN 13 connector. It allows the mixing of six RMC sensors and mixing with magnetic pickups

An absolutely in-e-ga-lable quality!



[
RMC PolyDrive I
In extremely compact dimensions, Richard Mc Clish's Poly-Drive pre-amp can handle MIDI, piezo and magnetic pickups. Associated with RMC sensors (the best I know) it provides a fast and reliable Midi, as well as an extraordinary piezo sound.

Internal for best instrument appearance
Super-Compact format: 0.9"h.  X  1.25"w.  X  1.5"d.
Retro-fits easily in all standard solid-body guitars
Excellent tracking with all Guitar to MIDI converters, including :
Roland GR-50, GR-09, GR-1, GI-10, GR-30 & GR-33
Yamaha G50       Axon NG-66, NGC-77 and AX-100
Excellent performance with the Roland VG-8, VG-88, VG-A7 and VG-99
Built-in 13 pin DIN output jack & mounting hardware
Built-in Active PIEZO MIX for blending with MAG sound
Built-in Magnetic Pickup (signal) buffer
Power: Phantom via 13-pin jack or onboard battery
Versatile functional design provides Ribbon Cable connections for onboard control of  MAG/PIEZO Blend,  Guitar Volume,  Guitar Tone,  Synth Volume,  Sw1/Sw2  and  Synth/Mix/Guitar 3-pos. selector switch
User-definable onboard controls :  preamp can function without connecting battery, controls or switches
Studio Quality performance 90 dB S/N typical
Summary of Audio Functions

The 6 pickup signals from the RMC sensor saddles are preamplified & equalized separately. The buffered string signals are fed to pins 1 through 6 of the built-in DIN-13 connector. These buffered string signals are also mixed together and further equalized to produce the Saddles Mix signal.
The Mag pickups are buffered using the internal Mag Buffer circuit. The buffered magnetics signal can be combined with the Saddles Mix signal using a BLEND control (pot).

This combined signal is then passed through TONE and VOLUME controls to produce a Mono Guitar output signal which is fed to pin 7 of the DIN-13 connector and also to a 1/4" PHONE JACK.  The Phone Jack turns-on battery power when a regular (mono) guitar cord is inserted.

- Poly-Drive I  miniature onboard polyphonic preamp 

Complete with all necessary hardware including pots, switches, connectors and jackplates as well as easy-to-follow wiring instructions


Elantric - do you by chance know if the Poly-Drive I is still for sale anywhere?
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Elantric

#109
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on August 24, 2017, 03:47:58 PM
Elantric - do you by chance know if the Poly-Drive I is still for sale anywhere?

Basically same availability as CycFi products.

http://www.rmcpickup.com/polydrivei.html
Must contact the inventor Richard McClish

e-mail us at info@rmcmusic.com

or write us at

RMC Pickup Co.
1739 Addison #15
Berkeley CA 94703


https://nylonlive.wordpress.com/category/rmc-pickups/

MIDI-Classics.com  is now history ( they were a big RMC parts source)

"Authorized RMC pickups installers, might have inventory
http://www.rmcpickup.com/authorized_installers.htm


might try Peekamoose
http://www.peekamoose.com/FAQs.html


GuitarBuilder

Quote from: scratch17 on August 24, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
Admsustainiac, as I was falling asleep last night, I actually had a thought about this problem.

This is a trade-off. The closer to the bridge, the better for string bending and GK devices. But the tone of the hex pickup gets thinner. I wanted to put the pickup in the neck position because I prefer the tone of neck pickups over bridge pickups.

I think I may have two potential solutions for the string bending issue.

These Nu pickups are full range. Even in the bridge position, I think I could use EQ to get pretty close to neck position tone. This  requires the least modification of the guitar. In this scenario, I'd use a NU/XR Combo at the bridge and a Quad XR at the neck.

Or I could replace the two stock pickups with two NU/XR combos. With NU pickups in both positions I could adjust the balance between the two audio streams on each string when I do a string bend. Putting neck position NU on the left side and the bridge position NU on the right side of a stereo DAW track, I could just use pan to readjust the balance to avoid dropouts during string bending. Since the input track is stereo, the pan pot actually controls the balance between left and right input streams.

The issue with this setup is that I would now have 12 channels of audio needed for the two NU pickups. Plus six channels from the RMC piezo output and I'd still need a channel for the mono pickups. I could leave the 13 pin jack in place and add the Lemo jack to the rear of the guitar where the TRS jack is currently in place. I would connect the mono pickups to the 13 pin connector.

I don't see how you could put two Nu pickups into the 19-pin connector.  I suggest you start with one.  I think based on your preferences you should put the combo in the bridge position, but with the Nu pickup away from the bridge towards the neck.

Quote from: scratch17 on August 24, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
GuitarBuilder said:

I thought no hacking at all is needed if I am willing to use channels 1 through 12 for audio. Am I incorrect?

Channels 1-6 and 9-15.  Use of 7-8 requires hacking.

Quote from: scratch17 on August 24, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
Looks like that's what I will do. Lots of work, though. I can make a new face plate to hold the GK and Lemo jacks. Will I have to widen the channel to contain the GK and Cycfi cabling? Is there any potential RF interference induced by having both cables going through the same channel?

The cables will not be together.  The RMC pickup wires are individually fed into the body from the bridge.  The Nu flat cables (2) and the XR cable will go where your magnetic pickup wiring is routed, which is a different path.  The 3-pin solderless connector on the XR cable is fairly wide, so you'll like have to make more room or disassemble it to feed it through.  In either case you don't need to worry about RF interference.

Quote from: scratch17 on August 24, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
Wouldn't I be better off using the back TRS jack channel for the Lemo jack? I know I would need to slightly widen the TRS channel to accommodate the Lemo jack.

There is not a lot of room behind the TRS jack.  You will definitely need to do some routing there.  If you remove the TRS jack you will also lose the Poly-Drive acoustic and magnetic outputs.

Quote from: scratch17 on August 24, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
I agree about the brittleness of the piezo sound, by itself. I use a Universal Audio Woodworks plugin to get a more "acoustic recorded with a microphone sound" out of the piezo feeds. It gives great results. I highly recommend it. I've also tweaked the piezo feeds by putting my Fishman Aura processing in line. Not as good as Woodworks, but a lot less expensive.

Yes, I use a Fishman Aura Spectrum DI to clean up the piezo sound.  It's primarily for my acoustics, but also does a great job on the i8.13.

Quote from: scratch17 on August 24, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
GuitarBuilder, have you opened up your i813? Is there available space in the guitar for the Cycfi cabling and boards? Will I need to do any extra RF shielding?

Yes I have and it's not good news: there is absolutely no space in my i8.13 control cavity for anything else.  It's a mad jumble of wiring!



If your i2.13 looks like that at all, I would recommend some clever rewiring or rerouting.

Quote from: scratch17 on August 24, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
I see three pots on your beautiful Strat. You mention the custom blend control with active volume (for the XR Duals) and synth volume. So are they stacked? What does each pot control?

The blend control is not stacked, it's a dual pot with center detent.  In other words, both pots turn on the same shaft.  The top pot is part of the Cycfi Active Volume Preamp circuit and the bottom pot is a 0-5V CV for Synth Volume.

The second and third pots are the Frequency and Resonance controls for the Cycfi Research Resonant Filter.

I don't suggest you go this route on your guitar, since you have very little room to work in.  Your best bet is to use a passive XR Dual Flex in the combo and wire it in place of your bridge pickup.

Quote from: scratch17 on August 24, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
The extra advantage of having a bridge position NU is that I could use it for GK compatible devices like my VG-99. cags12, since I will put a NU in the bridge position, I will use it with the Cycfi 13 pin adapter in the Nexus to drive my VG-99. So I will need the Cycfi CV volume pot. All of my other CV will be done by my MMGT10. I will leave all of the RMC electronics in place as they are, with the exception of the pots and the pickup selector switch. They will get swapped for Cycfi parts.

Keep in mind that there is no Cycfi 13-pin adapter for the Nexus; that product is designed to go into the guitar; it is a different Breakout Board.  The right approach is to use a Synth-Linx 13-pin connector with custom cabling in the Nexus box.

If you leave the existing Synth Volume pot in place, you will not need a Cycfi CV pot for GK control.

Quote from: scratch17 on August 24, 2017, 01:06:07 PM
BTW, has anyone considered using the NU to feed a Fishman Triple Play? Would that be feasible? There is enough room on the i213 for FTP between the bridge and the bridge pickup, but I hate the idea of having the FTP controller on an already crowded surface.

Now you're really getting out there!  There would be a severe impedance mismatch, as well as more hacking.  Not recommended.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

mooncaine

Seems to me that folks who need just a wee bit more space in their guitar's control cavity could do this:

Remove control cavity cover, trace it or scan it* including the screw holes, get that tracing into a computer, and make a 3d-printable copy of it in tinkerCAD or Sketchup.

Make one mod: put a bulge in it wherever you need more space. Make it as smooth or as angular as you like. While you're at it, put screw holes or tie-down slots for the parts you're trying to cram in there; maybe they can be mounted on this replacement cover.

Airplane designs do this all the time. Car designs have done it. I might try it on a Steinberger that's fresh out of available interior space. I have occasional access to a makerspace now and this might be a fun project to try there.

scratch17

GuitarBuilder, thanks for the comprehensive info. I have rethought my project. I am now considering a custom built guitar using a Warmoth neck and body. It just seems that retrofitting the i213 is more hassle than starting with a clean slate.

I have a lot of thinking to do.

Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: scratch17 on August 25, 2017, 07:03:50 AM
GuitarBuilder, thanks for the comprehensive info. I have rethought my project. I am now considering a custom built guitar using a Warmoth neck and body. It just seems that retrofitting the i213 is more hassle than starting with a clean slate.

I have a lot of thinking to do.

I'd be happy to build you one.  PM me if interested.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

scratch17

I have a question about the multi-pin connector that goes between the Nu Multi and the Lemo cable. From what I can see on the CycFi site, the connector has three cables carrying what I assume to be up to 4 channels of audio each.

If you want two 6 channel audio sources, such as with a Nu Multi pickup and a Graphtech Hexpander, is it possible to connect them to the Lemo cable's header?
Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

GuitarBuilder

#115
Cycfi Research pickups are far more advanced and a better choice for polyphonic guitar processing.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

vanceg

Quote from: scratch17 on November 14, 2017, 03:59:46 PM
I have a question about the multi-pin connector that goes between the Nu Multi and the Lemo cable. From what I can see on the CycFi site, the connector has three cables carrying what I assume to be up to 4 channels of audio each.

If you want two 6 channel audio sources, such as with a Nu Multi pickup and a Graphtech Hexpander, is it possible to connect them to the Lemo cable's header?

Typically you run from the Nu pickup to the Internal Breakout Board using two of the FPC cables.  These carry 4 channels each.     You could connect a third one of these to the Breakout box for a total of 12 channels of audio from pickups.  Then you run from the Internal Breakout Board to the LEMO connector board using 3 of the FPC's.Each of these carries 6 channels of signal. 

If you want to try to use the Lemo connector for transporting audio from the Nu pickups and some other multichannel pickup, I'd just suggest contacting Joel at Cycfi and I'm sure he can help you figure out a pretty easy solution. The Lemo has enough connectors (19) for two sets of hex pickups.  I believe he may have even changed the cable that runs from the breakout board to the lemo connector board to be individual wires rather than the FPC...this would make attaching non-Cycfi pickups a bit simpler.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: vanceg on December 10, 2017, 05:28:57 PM
Typically you run from the Nu pickup to the Internal Breakout Board using two of the FPC cables.  These carry 4 channels each.     You could connect a third one of these to the Breakout box for a total of 12 channels of audio from pickups.  Then you run from the Internal Breakout Board to the LEMO connector board using 3 of the FPC's.Each of these carries 6 channels of signal. 

If you want to try to use the Lemo connector for transporting audio from the Nu pickups and some other multichannel pickup, I'd just suggest contacting Joel at Cycfi and I'm sure he can help you figure out a pretty easy solution. The Lemo has enough connectors (19) for two sets of hex pickups.  I believe he may have even changed the cable that runs from the breakout board to the lemo connector board to be individual wires rather than the FPC...this would make attaching non-Cycfi pickups a bit simpler.

I run the Nu Multi 6 (6 channels) and the XR Flex pickups (1 channel) into pins 1-6, 9 on the Lemo.  Channels 9-12 are accessible through pin headers on the Internal Breakout Board.  That leaves me with 5 extra audio channels.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Sonnec

#118
My interest is in data - 6-channel guitar direct to PC/mobile. Has anyone done any recordings with that configuration using this pick-up? What kinds of instrumental sounds have you emulated/created?

admin

#119
QuoteMy interest is in data - 6-channel guitar direct to PC/mobile.


Consider a Boss GP-10 - it features ability to feed each string direct to a PC/Mac via clean 24 bit USB Audio interface built in.


The GP-10 features an onboard USB audio/MIDI interface, letting players capture great amp and effect tones in their DAW with any guitar. But when using a GK pickup, the GP-10 expands production capabilities far beyond any standard guitar processor. For example, it's possible to record a guitar's six strings individually on separate tracks, either processed with the GP-10 or captured dry for later processing. Multi-string sound recording offers creative options not only for re-amping applications, but also for "re-guitaring" sounds through the GP-10's modeling section to change the entire sound while mixing. The guitar-to-MIDI function lets players to stretch their creativity even further by using their guitar to play soft synths, capture MIDI sequences, and input MIDI data into music notation software.



or
http://www.separate-strings.co.uk





Tony Raven

BUT --

Is there a way to actually BUY them??

There's a lot of chatter -- who actually OWNS much less PLAYS a guitar with Cycfi pickups?

Sonnec

Quote from: Tony Raven on December 17, 2017, 12:03:42 AM
BUT --

Is there a way to actually BUY them??

There's a lot of chatter -- who actually OWNS much less PLAYS a guitar with Cycfi pickups?

Click the link below the pick-up image. One thread by GuitarBuilder details a recent guitar build based around the Cycfi pickups.

Tony Raven


Sonnec

Only one necessary for demonstration, and I think GuitarBuilder's does. What are you looking to find out?