GR-55 - ALTERNATE TUNINGS SUDDENLY DON'T WORK.. HELP!!

Started by Paganini666, December 22, 2011, 07:07:26 PM

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soothsayerpg

It's really late here, i'm going to try your suggestion early tomorrow  :).

Also, your answer had gave some light on my worst fear, that the gr-55 might be a failure to what i need. I play live and i cannot serve that kind of problem sound(s) to the audience.

So you can say final that there aren't any problems with those alternate tuning "pitch like sound" result?

Also, so how can i use gr-55 with alternate tunings with amps on a live setup and not only for headphones?

Thanks again Elantric for the help and response.

Elantric

#26
In most performance situations, if you play a solidbody guitar, and perform at live show audio levels, most folks will never hear your non amplified strings original pitch.

But if you perform at low coffee house gig volume, and  / or your Guitar is an Acoustic Hollowbody with a GK-3 or RMC / Ghost Piezo PU 13 pin system , then yes - DSP Alt Tuning might not be for you, as your ears (and audience) will be hearing a mix of your DSP Alt tuning emerging from stage speakers AND the natural pitch vibration of the non amplified strings on your guitar, and often these are NOT the same frequency = clashing frequency's and "out of tune" audio can result at lower gig volume levels.

gumtown

You will also be 'feeling' the string vibrations from your guitar at it's original pitch, which can also confuse you with 'hearing' it.

Have someone else play the guitar with alternate tunings, and listen for yourself a little distance away from the guitar,
or try recording what you play, then listen to the playback.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Litesnsirens

For what it's worth I use the alt tunings a fair bit and I can say that for playing live with an amplified guitar it's never been a problem and I have total confidence in the gear.  In fact I only experience what you are hearing occasionally and it just means turning up the volume just enough to drown out the natural string sound. I find it doesn't really take that much volume to accomplish this, but I am using solid body guitars, Fender/Roland GC-1's.

Toff.

Same here - Half of my presets in LIVE situations use ALT TUNINGS from the GR-55 and it is not an issue at reasonable volumes.
Even on my Godin semi-solid body.
Musical regards,

Toff.

Godin nylon ACS special edition (Light Burst Quilted Leaftop), Taylor T5 Classic, Fishman Triple Play, Roland GR-20, Roland GR-55, TC-Helicon VoiceLive 3, Digitech Vocalist Live5, iConnectMidi2+

PatMarrNC

Hi,

I have several patches set up with Alternate tunings, which have worked perfectly until today. Suddenly they play standard and alternate tunings both at the same time.  More info, before you offer suggestions I've already tried:

1) the stock patches with alt tuning (like STOLLING RONES) do the same thing, so it isn't a bad edit to my user patch

2) 3 way switch is not in the middle position.. it is in the synth position, and should be playing ONLY the patch, nothing from the regular pickup.

3) regular pickup cord isn't even plugged into the jack

4) the 3 way switch doesn't change even when I move it to the other positions. Even in the position where it should be playing the standard pickup only, I still get what sounds like a mixture of the original tuning plus the alt tuning (and the standard guitar pickup cord is still not plugged in... there should be no sound at all in that position)

5) I have used contact cleaner on all of my connections, it did not help.

I think its a hardware issue, but I have no way to determine if it is a GK-3 problem, or a GR-55 problem. Any ideas on how to test this? Or any suggestions on troubleshooting or fixing the problem?

Brent Flash

#31
Put headphones on so you do not hear the guitar strings. That should get rid of the normal tuning sound. Well documented here that when this happens 99.9% of the time you are hearing the acoustic sound from the guitar.

Chazking

I have the same issue but am not using an acoustic guitar. In open D tuning The 1st 2nd,3rd and 6th string all sound like two strings each but of different tuning. Difficult to identify what the notes are. 4th and 5th sound normal.

Brent Flash

Welcome to the group Chazking!  :)

It happens with electric guitars too so make sure you are not hearing the guitar by putting on headphones or recording it to see if you are actually getting the original tuning coming out of the outputs.

Elantric

Never underestimate the Sound pressure Level of the natural non amplified vibrating string

Record the GR-55 and playback the audio - you may find that the Alt Tuning emerging from your GR-55 is all good.

ROCK

#35
need help on this one, i cannot do a alternate tuning half step down it sounds like 2 voice at different pitches per string?
and no its not coming from the acoustic
I would appreciate any help or somewhere to download a patch half step down.
Thanks

Mrchevy

#36
PCM 1, PCM2, And COSM MODELING, all respond to alternate tuning. Your cosm modeling gets its signal from the GK3 pickup, Not the normal pickups of your guitar. You may be getting a signal from your cosm model that is set to standard tuning. One way to see if this is your problem is to go to your patch and turn off all 4 boxes (PCM1, PCM2, cosm model, and normal guitar) you should have no sound. Then turn on one at a time and see if your getting  your alternate tuning on any of them. I'll be willing to bet your PCM with the alt tuning will be as you set it but either your other PCM or Cosm model is still in standard tuning. If you can post your trouble patch here, we can download it and look thru your parameters and see if we can replicate the issue and find the problem.

How to post patches to VGuitar Forum
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3260.new#new

Just post G5L. file here in this thread instead of in the patch exchange
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

rayfriday

Greetings to all GR 55 users.
I have just entered this world by purchasing a Godin LGXT Guitar and a Roland GR 55.
As strange as this may sound, I'm using this system to play original "fingerstyle" music,
I'm an old guy and have been playing since I was 5. That said, let's move on to the problem:

I've created several models (acoustic) and programmed the open tunings for each one,
but there are strange (variable) off key, notes coming out of the GR. I contacted Roland,
sent them my patch, and they experience the same thing even when using a GK3 pickup.
I asked them to try my patch with an RMC OPT-01 equipped GR 55, but they informed me that they don't have one!
At this point, they have not responded with any useful information regarding the problem.

Has anyone out there solved this? or have a similar experience?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Ray.
OCGP  (obsessively compulsive guitar player )

Jim Wintringham

If possible for you, post the patch here...and we can try it for you. It is really easy to get 'ghost notes' if your bumping strings, or not getting a strong grip. I had to change how I played when using a GR unit. Another possibility is the 'normal guitar' is still turned on...if it has 'standard tuning' (your normal pickups)...it will clash. I use headphones when playing a patch with alternate tuning...so I don't hear the natural sound of the strings. :)
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Ventris Dual Reverb
Roland kc-300

godinloverguy

#39
Hi everybody,

OK been fooling around with alternate tunings on the GR55 for two days now, and I cannot get it to work.
I have read all the previous posts about hearing the actual sound of the guitar mixed in the with alternate tuning sound coming from the amp, and this leading to some dissonance in our ears, but this is not the case.
My normal pups are not engaged. I am using a solid body cranked, but still, I can definitely hear two notes- very dissonant, coming out of my amp.
Is this a software glitch?
Please give me your thoughts. Thanks !


Elantric

#40
As always , create a straight ( no microphone) connection to your PC DAW App and record your Alt tuning patch.

Play it back or post an MP3 example here

You will discover you are hearing the non amplified acoustic energy of the natural frequency of the vibrating string. This will be dissonant to the DSP Alt tuning.

The solution is crank up your Amplifier, use Headphones, and avoid hollow body Acoustic  and Dobro Resonator Guitars as your 13 pin instrument

And this explains why I don't recommend GK-3 on Acoustic Guitars.

If you use many different  Alt Tunings, consider Tronical Servo motor tuners.


godinloverguy

Hi Elantric,
JUst tried this, does not help. I am using a solid body with a GK-3.Amp is cranked.
Still hear double notes coming out of the amp. I am doing the Ted Nugent thing, ear right against the amp speaker. Still hear double notes from the amp.
Any thoughts? Thx

Elantric


gumtown

12 string pitch option in the modelling section switched off?
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

godinloverguy

Hi gumtown,
Thx, but checked.... 12 string modeling is off.
Tried decreasing string levels and sensitivity. - No change, still getting double notes thru the amp.
Is it possible that a firmware update would solve the problem?
Thanbks

Elantric

#45
Record a sample direct from GR-55 and upload a MP-3 audio sample here ( or URL link from SoundCloud / Dropbox / Google drive.

and Post the GR-55 *.g5l Patch!

(Here's how)

GR-55 - How to Upload / Download GR-55 User patches.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3260.0


and be sure "Normal PICKUP is "OFF"  here:

godinloverguy

Hello Elantric and all!

OK, been experimenting with my 3 synth ready guitars for the past 2 weeks and this is what I have to report.
My initial problem was that I was getting ghost notes that sounded terrible when I was using the Alternate tunings feature on my GR-55. Specifically de-tuned double notes. Was driving me crazy.
It seems that the problem is related to the two  Roland GK-3 Pickups which are installed on two of my guitars, a hollowbody Godin A6 Ultra, and a semi-acoustic Godin Flat Five X.
HOWEVER, when I use my Godin Synth ready LGXT which has the RCM piezo pup factory installed in the bridge, the alternate tuning feature on the GR-55 works like a charm !!!
Any thoughts??
Thanks !!

Elantric

#47
QuoteAny thoughts??
Upload and Post the problem DSP Alt tuning GR-55 patch you have problems with your GK-3 guitars,  so other can test

Or when you want DSP Alt tuning with YOUR GR-55, only use your Godin LGXT  - since thats the only one that works for you.

I don't use ( nor recommend ) GK-3 with any hollow body guitars  - too much bleed in the room from the natural vibrating string's acoustically coupled energy into the same air as my powered speakers from the output of  VG-8, VG-88, VG-99, GR-55, GP-10 DSP Alt Tuning  - nothing but conflicting out of tune soundwaves hit my ears.

I can tell this is the worst guitar to mount a GK-3 for DSP Alt Tuning



That why most "GK " guitars are solid body electric guitars.

Even the "Variax Acoustic" - is in fact a solidbody guitar     

BackDAWman

Check in the system tab to make sure the GK pup is not set to reverse (for mounting the GK with the lead coming from the bottom side of the bridge) and yours is mounted with the lead coming from the top of the bridge.

I get caught with this regularly as I have a GC-1 and two ZT3s. The ZT3s are mounted in the reverse config. I keep forgetting to change the system config  ::)

Also check that the 'normal' guitar source is unchecked.

gumtown

The hollow body guitar is causing the other strings (one or a few) to resonate (that is where the sound comes from a hollow guitar, resonance).
Try damping\muting all your strings, and the body if you can, except one string and play that one string and see if the problem persists.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/