GR-55 - Marc Benigni's GR-55 TouchOSC Navigator for iPad

Started by MCK, February 17, 2011, 03:05:24 AM

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gumtown

Quote from: xile on March 10, 2011, 09:04:37 PM
MCK - Can Midi Touch send Roland Sysex with the checksum calculated?  I think that is required.

xile
The GR-55 is not fussy about checksum, you can feed it any value for realtime system exclusive control.
May be a different story for writing data to memory though.

If you want to access the Preset patches under the Catagory buttons, the "LEAD" ones start at Bank 16 (hexadecimal 10).
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

MCK

Midi Touch does not accept a Sysex string unless it is valid. It has a validation control built in. I looked at the Debug indication in GR-55 Editor and it did not accept it at first suggesting an F0 is required at the beginning of a SysEx message. It then suggested an F0 at the end. After I put these in the Sysex linked button worked like a charm! More to follow later. We just had a massive earthquake here and I may need to evaquate.

gumtown

I hope you are OK, with the Quake, it looks very serious.

Your sysx messages for parameter control need to start with F0 and end with F7. typical data structure is

F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 18 00 10 0A 00 4E F7      = switch Modeling Tone 'on'
F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 18 00 10 0A 01 4D F7      = switch modeling tone 'off'

F0 = sysx message header (message start)
41 = Roland device (manufacuter ID)
10 = Device midi Identity (fixed at device ID 16)
00 00 53 = Roland GR-55 identification
12 = sending parameter change data (11 = requesting data from the GR-55)
18 00 10 0A = address for modeling tone switch in Temporary memory address (10 = guitar modeling, 0A tone switch address)
00 = 'off, 01 = 'on'
4E or 4D = data checksum value
F7 = sysx message finished.

For a Patch/Bank change to U1:1
B0 00 00   = controller 0 bank change 00 is Bank 1
B0 20 00   = controller 32 bank change required to process bank change
C0 00       = patch change to patch 1

For Patch/BAnk change to U99:3
B0 00 02
B0 20 00
C0 28

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

MCK

Thanks for the further explanation of the structure. I am so amazed that you managed to figure all this without Roland's documentation. Its crazy!!! More experimentation today.

MCK

Ok. After some more experimentation I am a little stuck and posted a question on Midi Touch site. Essentially I can create as many buttons as I want sending as many SysEx strings as I want to jump from patches to patches or turn things on & off but I know I will quickly run out of screen real estate. The app supports sliders and X,Y pads and these work wonderful with sending CC or PC where the actual code sent is dependent on the location tapped or slided to. I want to see if I can integrate this position data into the SysEx code.

F0 B0 00 00 B0 20 00 C0 00 F7 - changes to the first patch
F0 B0 00 00 B0 20 00 C0 08 F7 - will send it to the 9th patch

So the 2 digits at the end between C0 and F7 define which patch I'm jumping to.

My question to the Midi Touch app developer is how to configure a slider or an X,Y pad to send the F0 B0 00 00 B0 20 00 C0 fixed prefix + a code that goes from 00 to 28 + a suffix of F7

Once I figure that out I'll be in business. This looking good.

gumtown

Here is an alternative to do Patch/Bank change on the GR-55, this is quite unique to the GR-55, where instead of standard patch change data, system exclusive data is sent like this
F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 01 00 00 00 00 00 7F F7 = Patch U01:1
F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 01 00 00 00 00 7F 00 F7 = Patch U43:2
F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 01 00 00 00 01 00 7E F7 = Patch U43:3
F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 01 00 00 00 01 7F 7F F7 = Patch U86:1
F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 01 00 00 00 02 00 7D F7 = Patch U86:2
F0 41 10 00 00 53 12 01 00 00 00 02 28 55 F7 = Patch U99:3
the data is sent to the GR-55 system area.
The same data address, as a request, will also ask the GR-55 which patch it is currently on.

The problem you are going to have for each control is..
a) setting the control data range.
b) using the same data as meaningful GUI text (displaying the patch number).
c) getting the control to add header and footer data as a complete sysx message.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

MCK

#31
Suprise suprise...



Sorry for the short & crappy iphone video. Just wanted to rekindle this thread and start making headway.

Ingredients...
GR55
iPad or iPhone
Missing Link from Jabrudian Tech (Great product!!! Thanks for making it guys! )
GR55 midi knowledge from Gumtown (Priceless!!! - thank you so much for sharing openly. You're amazing)
TouchOSC 1.7.3 - Amazing piece of software which I have yet to learn... Just scratching the surface

Will post the TouchOSC template once I get it to do some more meaningful stuff.

So please post away. What should be put on the GR55 Navigator for iPad... What would you like to see?

My plan is to have a tabbed interface where first tab is to do rapid patch changes. Second tab can be to tweak PCM1,2, COSM etc settings and another tab could be to tweak effect settings etc.

This is a very simple proof of concept for now. Just noticed that the video does not make it very clear that the iPad talks to GR55 through the Missing Link using WiFi. So no cables between iPad & GR55... More to come.

tracy

Great start on the iPad interface!!!! Look forward to seeing more and to getting my hands on your template.
@tracyevans    •     http://www.exhibitry.com

gumtown

Good start !! ;)
You may notice that when you get into the PCM editing that the ranges "displayed" and the actual parameter values used do not relate, and some of them are not linear either.
More so with parameters that are centered around a value of "0", the actual parameter value centers at 400 (2 bytes). :P
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

minouche

Now that TouchOSC supports CoreMIDI, you can also plug a USB MIDI interface between the GR-55 and the iPad camera connection kit.

I think that if you spend some (very long) time with the TouchOSC Editor, you can create a great interface for all the GR-55 settings. There is a template for Logic Studio in TouchOSC that is absolutely amazing.

Maybe I'll take a look.

MCK

Thats great heads up. So Missing Link is optional in this case. Those who wish to use the template wirelessly can go with it (as I have) and those who are ok to go with the cable in between can use the Camera Kit + USB to Midi option which would lower the cost a little. Great going.

Feedback needed on Interface Design. What would you like to see on an iPad based GR55 manipulator? I will not call it an editor as it will not be possible to come anywhere near a full blown editor like Gumtown's amazing work. I like to call it the GR55 Navigator therefore. What should be ok it?

Galvonot

I was thinking of using an app to control the GR55 as well.  I note that Touchosc does not support sysex, though Midi Touch does. So one would have to set up cc's in the Assigns to make it work, I think.

How does panel design compare between the two apps?  Touchosc uses the computer for design, while Midi Touch does the design on the iPad. Any thoughts on which works better?


mbenigni

Quote from: MCK on August 09, 2011, 02:09:08 AM
Feedback needed on Interface Design. What would you like to see on an iPad based GR55 manipulator? I will not call it an editor as it will not be possible to come anywhere near a full blown editor like Gumtown's amazing work. I like to call it the GR55 Navigator therefore. What should be ok it?

I've been thinking about this for a while.  I was planning on buying an iRig MIDI cable if/when they ever ship, but that's about $70, which makes the wireless Missing Link seem like a better value in many ways.  The only reason I give pause is because wireless, while appealing, can sometimes be a point of failure (i.e. in a venue with a lot of radio interference.)

Anyway, back to your question - for an iPhone/iPad interface I tend to think in terms of things I need to tweak during performance.  Patches are in the ballpark thanks to gumtown's Floorboard app, but in the live mix you realize you need more/less... what?  Typically for me it's the gain/tone stack on the amp sims (IMO opinion there should have been hard controls for the primary AMP block, whatever the cost), send levels for reverb, and (this one is a little more complicated) some means of mixing levels between "voices" by which I mean guitars and synths - however many there may be.  The last one is complicated in that different patches will have different routing for different voices, or voices combined, and the mixer has to play nicely with any other volume assigns used in the patch.  In other words, it has to mix maximum volumes, without interfering with the expression pedal etc.

So, the no brainer bit is putting guitar amp controls on the iPad.  For me, a mixer (level faders and mute buttons) is needed, but I'll have to come up with some standard approach to patch programming that's compatible with that, so... probably a more advanced goal for a later date.  With this, I could get through a rehearsal or performance happily, even if I were to begin with less-than-ideal sounds.

Eventually I would also want controls allowing me to switch between amp models, that ill-conceived gain mode switch, guitar models, the pickup selector switch, and the PCM voice for each of the PCM blocks.  These additions would let me explore the capabilities of the GR55 in a more immediate way vs. comprehensively editing a patch with a PC and mouse - or god forbid, the menus on the GR!

mbenigni

Quote from: armatronix on February 17, 2011, 02:37:18 PM
MCK: Elantric invited me here a little while ago, I'm the inventor and maker of the Missing Link...

Hi, Hans.  Glad to see you're on this forum.  I'm thinking of ordering a Missing Link, but I had a couple of questions for you.  I hope you're still around to answer!

First question is, what is the feasibility of running the Missing Link off battery power, e.g. 2x 9V, 6x AA, or something similar?  Have you considered a variation with a larger enclosure to accomodate batteries, or do you think the current draw is too high for this to be practical?  I'm pretty neurotic about simplifying/ minimizing my rig, and cable runs to AC power always become headaches sooner or later.  I would think this might be true of a lot of people who are attracted to wireless solutions in the first place.

Second question - Can the Missing Link be used to receive Note On/Off data through the MIDI In port, and then transmit performance data to WiFi devices, e.g. smartphone synth apps or laptop softsynths?  All of the applications described involve control surface apps transmitting to hardware sound generators connected to the MIDI Out port.  (The latter is more important to me, but I could foresee using both.)

Lastly:  What's the actual availability like?  How soon could I expect to receive a Missing Link if I ordered today?

Many thanks.  :)

Elantric

#39
Hans checks in here not too frequently.

i suggest you repost this question about the Missing Link, directly to Jabrudian Industries here:
http://wifimidi.com



mbenigni


armatronix

#41
Hi guys, here's the reply I sent to Marc, in case anyone's interested:

Yes, the Missing Link will run off of a 9V battery.  I've used an adapter like this from SparkFun: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9518

There is (just) enough room inside the box to put a 9V battery, but it may affect the WiFi range and it besides a 9V probably won't last particularly long.  My thinking when designing the unit, was that pretty much whatever it gets plugged into will need to be powered anyways, so AC power would be available in most circumstances and the user wouldn't have to worry about the battery running down in a performance.

But here's the setup I like for battery-powering the Missing Link, it's a rechargeable battery pack from Radio shack with a USB output and a USB input that flips out for charging.  It's much higher-capacity than a 9V, and runs more efficiently since it's powering the logic directly at 5V.  It holds charge really well over a long period, too.



The ML will accept MIDI IN and convert it to OSC, so two-way communications or feedback are possible.  It's limited to CCs and notes at the moment, so don't expect it to be able to receive SYSEX or patch dumps or anything like that.

We have units in stock, and I'll put it in the mail today so you could expect it early next week if you're in the US.

MCK

#42
Quote from: Galvonot on August 10, 2011, 02:56:46 AM
I was thinking of using an app to control the GR55 as well.  I note that Touchosc does not support sysex, though Midi Touch does. So one would have to set up cc's in the Assigns to make it work, I think.

How does panel design compare between the two apps?  Touchosc uses the computer for design, while Midi Touch does the design on the iPad. Any thoughts on which works better?

TouchOSC coupled with Missing Link does support SysEx. Hans can explain this better but in TouchOSC you choose OSC rather than Midi as to what the control sends when manipulated and then lay down your SysEx in the following format :

/midi/0xf0 0xb0 0 0 0xb0 0x20 0 0xc0 x(0..0x1D) 0xf7

Missing Link picks the 0x and knows that the 2 digits that follow are Hex codes and send it on as a SysEx code. It also handles ranges as in x(0..0x1D).

I also used MidiTouch a little and I think its a cool software but for now I want to be able to go wireless so I will focus my energy on TouchOSC and Missing Link.

Quote from: mbenigni on August 10, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
Anyway, back to your question - for an iPhone/iPad interface I tend to think in terms of things I need to tweak during performance. 

Good feedback. Thanks much. We think alike. Will attempt some of this over the weekend. Updates to follow.

Regarding the power situation... GR55 runs off of 9V, Missing Link runs off of 9V... Splice & go is not rocket science. May need a beefier 9V supply which some of you may have on your pedal boards anyways. I am even tempted to put the whole Missing Link in the GR55. I think there is enough room in there. May try this later on.

Galvonot

Thanks, MCK.  I didn't know the Missing Link adds this feature. For my setup, direct connection is the best solution for now, so I've elected to go the Midi Touch route. Though a wireless setup using TouchOSC and a netbook was something I had considered, using software to convert OSC to sysex.

The comments about tweaking during performance is spot on.  That is exactly how I was approaching this - a page that would adjust the parameters that are important across all the patches I use.  Amp controls, effects mixing, PCM filtering and envelope controls and the like.

At some point we will likely have a nice collection of presets to post on this forum. A great project indeed, and thanks for your efforts to get this going.



mbenigni

#44
I ordered my Missing Link last night, so I hope to be an active part of this discussion and effort very soon.  Hans' reply was so prompt, thorough, and informative that I had to order one on principle alone!  You just don't see enough of that these days.  Moreover:  he put my ML in the mail the very night I ordered!  At about 9:30PM!   :o

I'll be doing a little research on the pros and cons of MIDI Touch vs. Touch OSC this weekend and will no doubt have questions.

Re: powering the missing link, I see that it will run off of USB power - any chance the thumb drive USB port on the side of the GR55 itself will power it, or is that just too good to be true?  :)

Meanwhile, should Hans happen by here again:  Probably not worth bothering you with email, but could you provide the product number of the battery pack in your picture?  It is absolutely perfect - even aesthetically! - with the ML, but of course, RadioShack.com, Amazon, etc. yield nothing.  I have a bad feeling that particular product has been discontinued.

MCK

Quote from: mbenigni on August 12, 2011, 07:37:58 AM
Re: powering the missing link, I see that it will run off of USB power - any chance the thumb drive USB port on the side of the GR55 itself will power it, or is that just too good to be true?  :)

You are a genious!!! It was right in front of my nose and I never thought about it. I tried this and it RUNS!!! So this also means the GR55 supplied wallwart is strong enough to power both and thus a splice in the back also could be used to power both if you need that USB host port to run with a thumbdrive installed.

Great to hear you're jumping onboard the Missing Link. Will be great to work on the template(s) together. I will post what I have here by the end of this weekend so you can have a headstart once you get your Missing Link.

mbenigni

Quote from: MCK on August 12, 2011, 08:04:18 AM
You are a genious!!! It was right in front of my nose and I never thought about it. I tried this and it RUNS!!!

That is AWESOME news!  Being told I'm a genius doesn't suck either.  :)  Well, this is coming together very nicely!  Looking forward to collaborating on templates and ideas.

Oh, here's a fairly important question to start with - have you looked into the feasibility of putting a Save button on your TouchOSC template?  Fine tuning patches will obviously be more constructive if you can save on the fly, and hitting the GR55 Save button with my big toe is a bit hit or miss.

MCK

Save button sounds like a grand idea. Will try.

armatronix

Quote from: mbenigni on August 12, 2011, 07:37:58 AM
Meanwhile, should Hans happen by here again:  Probably not worth bothering you with email, but could you provide the product number of the battery pack in your picture?  It is absolutely perfect - even aesthetically! - with the ML, but of course, RadioShack.com, Amazon, etc. yield nothing.  I have a bad feeling that particular product has been discontinued.

The catalog number is 2300224.  I was just in Radio Shack last night, and the local store had them in stock.

Elantric

#49
Quote
The catalog number is 2300224.  I was just in Radio Shack last night, and the local store had them in stock.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=10957435
Enercell® 2400mAh Portable Power Bank
Model: RSE090    Catalog #: 23-224