Behringer Model D 20,000 on pre-order

Started by chrish, August 30, 2017, 03:40:17 PM

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chrish

I was late to the game in pre-ordering one of these. I think I'm 19481 in line.

Maybe I should have ordered 6, one Behringer D for each string for the ultimate polyphonic analogue guitar synth.



"Behringer today officially announced pricing and availability details for their upcoming Behringer D Minimoog clone:

It's now official – Model D Synth price is US$ 299.99 MAP.

With over 20,000 backorders, we have achieved so must interest, that we are able to offer this iconic synth at such an incredible price.

Because of our upcoming factory move we will be shipping the synth in Q4 2017. Thank you for your support and patience".

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2017/08/30/behringer-d-299-price-now-official/

GuitarBuilder

"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

chrish

#2
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on August 31, 2017, 10:19:53 AM
It's a killer deal!
yes the electronics division of the Chinese military Works cheap
compared to Western standards. ;D

Uri Behringer is very good at marketing and figuring it out
what product to release.

If the Behringer d gets great reviews when it's released to the public, I think he can expect to double that number pretty quickly.

I'm going to try to trigger this with an Analogue Solutions RS - 35. I think all the required CV inputs are there.

Or.
I did notice a USB Jack on the thing and I don't know if it will accept MIDI to trigger the synth through the USB Jack but if it does it may be a good fit with the FTP.

If either of those methods produces flawless tracking then 6 of these would only cost $1,800 and using one per string would be killer.

But what would be really cool is if Roland would at least  release its pitch tracking system that was used on the gr 300.

Or Roland should just try to make another analogue gr300 with additional waveform selections.

But I won't hold my breath.

I wonder if Uri Behringer will clone the gr300 once the circuit design patents become public domain just like the minimoog circuitry did.

My understanding is that if he needs an old chip, he just has it re-manufactured.






admin

#3
QuoteI'm going to try to trigger this with an Analogue Solutions RS - 35. I think all the required CV inputs are there.



report your findings


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/562220-pitch-cv-help.html


https://www.modulargrid.net/e/analogue-systems-rs-35

The Analogue Systems rs35 External Source Processor is an exceptionally accurate pitch to voltage converter. The rs35 has two different types of outputs, plus an additional slew circuit. It accepts mic and line level inputs.

Output 1 is normal and output 2 is track and hold. The Envelope Follower section has an additional slew limiter. The trigger output section provides a means of firing envelope generators, clocking sequencers and a myriad of other applications.

The rs35's built-in preamp makes it a one-stop solution for controlling an analogue synthesizer or modular with vocals, flutes, bass, electric guitar, violin, etc. played monophonically with precision.

25 mA +12V
25 mA -12V
0 mA 5V
Ø 4.60 (5 Votes) Average Rating
No info about availability.

$269



Like a step back in time


http://www.matrixsynth.com/2015/03/70s-360-systems-spectre-guitar.html



https://www.google.com/search?q=360+systems+guitar+synthesizer&tbm=isch&imgil=T_kfq-2JzqpycM%253A%253BfOyo1i9X83EJHM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.matrixsynth.com%25252F2012%25252F06%25252F360-systems-spectre-guitar-synthesizer.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=T_kfq-2JzqpycM%253A%252CfOyo1i9X83EJHM%252C_&usg=__h6Ai6UzYHj4-r7RLaYBm1o5EDa4%3D&biw=1396&bih=682&ved=0ahUKEwjaz472iIPWAhUM-2MKHZ3BAwsQyjcIWw&ei=RdeoWZqZDIz2jwOdg49Y#imgrc=QTkSiDAY8ceTbM:

chrish

I didn't know korg made a pitch to cv guitar synthesizer. I wonder what that thing sounded like? :)

From what I've been reading, the analogue systems RS 35 benefits from an input filter to help isolate the fundamental.

I've been reading
about the gr300 pitch tracking on Mark Smart's website ( found a reference to it here) and he talks about the gr300 filters and other circuitry to improve accuracy of the pitch tracking.

Interesting stuff.

"On a vibrating guitar string, the second harmonic frequently becomes louder than the fundamental during long notes. This often confuses pitch tracking circuits into thinking the player has suddenly played a note an octave higher. The result is an unwanted octave jump in the synthesizer sound. Great pains have been taken in the GR-300's design to prevent this problem:
At the input of the pitch tracking circuit are two analog bandpass filters to suppress the second harmonic (circled in red on the schematic). When notes below the sixth fret are played, the cutoff frequencies of the filters are both near the open string pitch. When notes above the sixth fret are played, the filters move to frequencies higher up the neck.
Another circuit later in the chain detects the sudden changes in period voltage that occur when the second harmonic gets as loud as the fundamental (circled in yellow on the schematic). When it sees these changes, it reduces the output voltage from the envelope follower, which in turn reduces the volume of the synth sound to make the problem less noticeable."

http://www.marksmart.net/gearhack/gr300/analogmods/395report/Report.html




admin

#5
Quotedidn't know korg made a pitch to cv guitar synthesizer. I wonder what that thing sounded like?
Search YouTube

No special pickup required - just plug in

The pop up on eBay or Reverb time to time ($400 - $500
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/302407573749



Might read this thread


History of Guitar Synthesis
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11351.msg82642#msg82642

chrish

http://www.factmag.com/2017/03/06/behringer-budget-minimoog-clone-planned/

"Company founder Uli Behringer revealed the news on the Gearslutz forum, where he also defended creating a clone of Moog's iconic synth by noting that creating replicas is common practice in the music hardware business.

"The general rule and the law clearly describe that technology is free for everyone to use, provided it is not protected," he said. "You may have a different personal view, but that's how our society and every industry works – again why the law has been designed the way it is.

"In case of the MiniMoog there is no IP (Intellectual Property) involved as the technology is more than 40 years old and all patents have long expired. As a result, the property is now in the public domain, free for everyone to use. Without this principle there would only be one car or synthesizer manufacturer in the world.

"For this exact reason you will find many companies who are manufacturing replicas of all sorts, including the MiniMoog – simply google it."

Behringer also defended his position by saying that his company aims at musicians who can't afford to buy a genuine Minimoog (Moog's recent Model D replica retails for $3,749).

"It is well known marketing knowledge, that lower cost and competing products do contribute to more awareness and hence stimulate both ends of the market," he said.

"Our primary customer is not the well-off doctor or lawyer, but the people with much less income. I was a struggling musician myself when I started my business 30 years ago and I made it my mission in life to enable musicians to pursue their musical dreams without financial obstacles."

Behringer didn't offer any concrete details on how much the Minimoog clone or what it will look like, but he did mention that the company was looking into packing the innards of a Minimoog into a Eurorack module.

The company is making a big push to corner the affordable synth market. As well as wanting to make a whole range of analog gear starting at $49, it recently released its own analog synth called the DeepMind 12, which offers 12-voice polyphony for under $1,000."

chrish


https://cdm.link/2018/01/behringer-teases-oberheim-roland-clones-hints-production-delays/

"Let me turn it over to Uli Behringer, then, who this week wrote:

Please allow me to clarify that the first batch of Model D's had arrived at our German retailer Music Store right before yearend, which you can easily verify with them.

The next batch will hopefully leave the factory by end of coming week with some units being air-shipped to the US. The production is still relatively slow due to the fact that each unit takes over 30 minutes to warm up followed by a meticulous one-hour calibration and quality assurance procedure."

chrish

https://ask.audio/articles/it-s-actually-here-behringer-model-d-analog-synth-starts-shipping

"It's Actually HERE: Behringer Model D Analog Synth Starts Shipping
Rounik Sethi on Jan 10

The Behringer Model D (the clone of the famous MiniMoog Model D) has begun arriving in music stores in Europe. Behringer posted two low-res photos on their Facebook account today showing not just boxes, but a ready-for-sale unit of the Eurorack compatible Model D analog synthesizer"

chrish


Elantric

#10
Too bad Model D does not support MIDI Mono mode ( separate MIDI channel per voice )  = for MIDI guitar this means no independent string bending

The Roland D-05 or Blofeld is a bit better as a Tone Module for MIDI guitar as both support MIDI MONO  mode  - important for supporting  6 separate MIDI Pitch bend message at same time  - for MIDI Guitar

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/midi-mode/
http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/mono-mode/234
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/midi-mode/
QuoteMIDI Mode
By Sweetwater on Dec 16, 1997, 12:00 AM
Like
+1
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One of several ways in which a device can respond to incoming MIDI information. There are two parts to each mode, one defining whether it is monophonic or polyphonic, and the other determining if it is multitimbral or not. Four modes are included in the MIDI spec, and two others, Multi Mode and Mono Mode (for MIDI guitar) were developed later.

Omni On/Poly – Device responds to MIDI data regardless of channel, and is polyphonic. (See WFTD "Polyphonic")
Omni On/Mono – Device responds to MIDI data regardless of channel, and is monophonic. This mode is rarely, if ever, used.
Omni Off/Poly – Device responds to MIDI data only on one particular channel, and is polyphonic. This is the normal mode for most keyboards that are not functioning multitimbrally.
Omni Off/Mono – Device responds to MIDI data only on one particular channel, and is monophonic.
Multi Mode – Used by many devices for multitimbral operation. An expanded version of Mode 3, Multi Mode allows the device to respond to several independent MIDI channels at once, with each being polyphonic. (See also WFTD "Multitimbral")

Mono Mode – Used for MIDI guitar applications, Mono Mode is an expanded version of Mode 4, allowing for six Omni Off/Monophonic channels to be used at once, one for each string of the controller. This allows for better tracking, independent pitch bend per channel, and a separate sound or patch assignment per channel.
External multi-voice hardware Tone Generators for MIDI Guitarists
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=915.msg165454#msg165454

chrish

#11
Does that matter so much matter  on a mono synth?

It does allow you to set midi channels for each separate Model D so you could theoretically have 6 model D's, one for each string, each with its own separate midi Channel.

I was happy to see it has the correct inputs to accept CV voltage for OSC pitch, amp and filter envelope Gates.

My plan was to you see if the Model D  tracks well  with a pitch to voltage converter.

Having now owed the analog GR300, I've gotten used to a certain standard of tracking for analog synths. ;)

Of Course the VGs and the Sy 300 achieve that level of tracking in a digital format.

My experiences with triggering a Moog Voyager RME and Moog Slim phatty via pitch to MIDI is similar to stepping in dog poo in bare feet. ;D ( both those synths can also be triggered with pitch to control voltage, with the Moog Voyager RME requiring over $600 worth of breakout boxes for the CV in and outs).




chrish

Unit arrived yesterday and it really does sound good.

As soon as I can pull it off I'm going to buy the Analog Systems rs35 module to test out guitar pitch to cv triggering.

Below is a link for a condensed version of a comparison test between the minimoog and the Behringer Model D.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D21lYdGO1BkE&ved=0ahUKEwiTvs7Sq7zZAhVP62MKHZSFB8sQtwIIQDAI&usg=AOvVaw1TLgXqZ_AA-q4TI9iXhGWb

chrish

#13
Free miniMoog patches download.

https://reverb.com/software/presets/moog/253-patches-for-minimoog-model-d-sync-exclusive

"get the most out of your Minimoog Model D - simply match the knobs to get started. "


chrish

#15
 Yes Rick Wakeman could make that thing rock out.

And then there was Jan Hammer when he played with the mahavishnu orchestra ripping minimoog leads.

It's at that time, when I heard those guys, I knew I wanted a minimoog, however minimoogs are still expensive, and I was a guitar player.


The nice thing about the clone is that it'll put an affordable instrument into the hands of the multitude.

Here's a couple of YouTube videos that show the mellow side of the minimoog. In the second video that opening Flutey sound is  incredible.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D4JN2dOM47F4&ved=0ahUKEwiHyoypnMLZAhUQ72MKHb2rBIYQtwIITTAK&usg=AOvVaw01Uw_-ObeocOTslzEEnPmM


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DYeHaO1bF8Ng&ved=0ahUKEwipvvSbncLZAhUR62MKHS6cBcsQtwIIJTAA&usg=AOvVaw1JxmC6I2mI4lXMien3YCx6

mooncaine

Quote from:  philjynx on February 25, 2018, 11:31:39 AM
One of the nice features of the minimoog dependended on it being mono synth , Rick Wakeman used to use this particular feature a lot, I think it was called Glide, or something like that, when you go from one note to the next, it takes it's time to 'bend' until it reached the next note.
On some synths, that's called "Portamento" ... and it's way groovy, innit? Love it.

It can be done on a poly -- I am just trying it right now with a synth model in Ableton. Yeah, it can sound pretty sick when you play a chord. But in this software synth, Analog, the Glide seems to be tied to the individual note, and only happens once.

Unless you switch it down to mono, and then the good ol' glide is back.

Rhcole

Had a Minimoog years ago. Fat, round sound.

They are considering building the ARP 2600 as well. Ye gads, that would be phenomenal.

Matteo Barducci

Quote from: Rhcole on February 25, 2018, 09:50:15 PM
They are considering building the ARP 2600 as well. Ye gads, that would be phenomenal.

Unlike Minimoog, which had all their patent expired, the ARP name, rights and original creator David Fiend were all with Korg, so Behringer essentially stripped all it's plans to release whatever product with an ARP connection. They are working on the Oberheim clone and some other things.
--

---> Matteo Barducci

admin

https://www.gearnews.com/behringer-rumour-mill-points-jupiter-8/
We can't let a week go by without another Behringer synthesizer rumour. This time they were spotted playing with a Roland Jupiter 8 – what could it possibly mean?

Jupiter 8 – Bupiter 8 – Jupiger 8?
What do we think they'll call it? Behringer posted a photo on their Facebook account of a couple of guys excitedly trying out a Jupiter 8 and waving. Well, that sent ripples through the ether and the comments fill up with all sorts of pleading. We're in a strange time where repeatedly asking a manufacturer to produce something actually results in them producing something.

But what about the TR-909? It's sitting there on the desk, plain as day, are we expecting one of those as well? Probably.

So Behringer has recently released the Model D, the Neutron and the VC-340 are not far behind. All of them pre-ordered too, I imagine, ridiculous levels. So why not have a go at something a bit meatier? They did a decent job of the DeepMind although perhaps not the Juno clone people were hoping for. Do we think they'd do a clone of the Jupiter 8 or would be inspired by it and reworked into something else? Maybe they are combining the Jupiter 8 and the TR-909 into a fabulous automatic keyboard workstation!

chrish

Turns out that the tip I got from Steve about disconnecting the US 20 13 pin A\B box from the VG 99 in order to improve synth and distortion sound quality, also seems to improve the pitch to MIDI tracking. Getting pretty good results now.

Also came across this link at the MW forum. Apparently  Behringer is asking for  ideas on what people want  in euro rack modules that Behringer might consider producing.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1211389-behringer-eurorack-modular.html


GuitarBuilder

Quote from: chrish on February 23, 2018, 07:33:38 AM
Unit arrived yesterday and it really does sound good.

As soon as I can pull it off I'm going to buy the Analog Systems rs35 module to test out guitar pitch to cv triggering.

Below is a link for a condensed version of a comparison test between the minimoog and the Behringer Model D.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D21lYdGO1BkE&ved=0ahUKEwiTvs7Sq7zZAhVP62MKHZSFB8sQtwIIQDAI&usg=AOvVaw1TLgXqZ_AA-q4TI9iXhGWb

Were you able to find the RS-35 for sale?  It looks like Unobtainium to me.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

admin

#22
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on April 16, 2018, 01:06:04 PM
Were you able to find the RS-35 for sale?  It looks like Unobtainium to me.


External Processor & Pitch to CV
$245

https://reverb.com/item/3590854-analogue-systems-rs-35-external-source-processor


2.5 inches Depth
25 mA +/-12V

The Analogue Systems RS-35 External Source Processor is an exceptionally accurate pitch to voltage converter. The RS-35 has two different types of outputs, plus an additional slew circuit. It accepts mic and line level inputs.

Output 1 is normal and output 2 is track and hold. The Envelope Follower section has an additional slew limiter. The trigger output section provides a means of firing envelope generators, clocking sequencers and a myriad of other applications.

The RS-35's built-in preamp makes it a one-stop solution for controlling an analogue synthesizer or modular with vocals, flutes, bass, electric guitar, violin, etc. played monophonically with precision.

Usage with eurorack:
Analogue Systems modules include their own custom ribbon connector that differ from the standard Doepfer ribbon connector. Many Eurorack cases include two types of power sockets (Doepfer and Analogue Systems type) for connecting modules. Please check that your case has compatible Analogue Systems sockets or please inquire about purchasing a converter cable from us. We are here to assist you with any questions you might have on connecting these modules but are not responsible for modules that are improperly installed. Please be sure to understand the connectors before purchasing.


or $225 here
https://www.bigcitymusic.com/products/rs35-external-source-processor

chrish

#23
With the rs35,  the manufacture doesn't warranty the module unless you buy one of their cases and their power supply even though they make  an adapter cable for euro rack power supplies.

At least that's my understanding.

Also people recommend using a pre filter to help isolate the fundamental from the harmonics. So that's more cash.

And now I have better pitch to MIDI performance since I disconnected that US 20.

May still give it a go in the future but for now there's a few other modules that I'd like to purchase.

Like the Behringer Neutron.

I purchased the model d through Sweetwater and they actually price matched the coupon price of 15% off from Musician's Friend since it was within 30 days of purchase.

I don't see how people are making money on what turns out to be a $265 synth with the discount.




chrish

Quote from: admsustainiac on April 16, 2018, 01:20:56 PM

External Processor & Pitch to CV
$245

https://reverb.com/item/3590854-analogue-systems-rs-35-external-source-processor


2.5 inches Depth
25 mA +/-12V

The Analogue Systems RS-35 External Source Processor is an exceptionally accurate pitch to voltage converter. The RS-35 has two different types of outputs, plus an additional slew circuit. It accepts mic and line level inputs.

Output 1 is normal and output 2 is track and hold. The Envelope Follower section has an additional slew limiter. The trigger output section provides a means of firing envelope generators, clocking sequencers and a myriad of other applications.

The RS-35's built-in preamp makes it a one-stop solution for controlling an analogue synthesizer or modular with vocals, flutes, bass, electric guitar, violin, etc. played monophonically with precision.

Usage with eurorack:
Analogue Systems modules include their own custom ribbon connector that differ from the standard Doepfer ribbon connector. Many Eurorack cases include two types of power sockets (Doepfer and Analogue Systems type) for connecting modules. Please check that your case has compatible Analogue Systems sockets or please inquire about purchasing a converter cable from us. We are here to assist you with any questions you might have on connecting these modules but are not responsible for modules that are improperly installed. Please be sure to understand the connectors before purchasing.


or $225 here
https://www.bigcitymusic.com/products/rs35-external-source-processor
hear is the RS 35 in action

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DnJykhXwHkvo&ved=0ahUKEwiUhI2RrczaAhXNmuAKHUQRDswQtwIIJTAA&usg=AOvVaw3qJFOAYFdGFWiXwQfo6b2x