Cycfi - ChlorineMist's Hex PU sonic excursions

Started by chlorinemist, April 26, 2017, 10:46:50 AM

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chlorinemist

custom warmoth jaguar w/ Cycfi Nu multichannel pickup and Fishmna Tripleplay in bridge position, and a Cycfi XR in the bridge. 19 pin output jack transmits up to 12 audio channels (6 string outs and 1 mono neck pickup in my case), + 7 channels of CV from the special pots and blade switch, to Cycfi's Nexus breakout box, which converts the CV signals to midi. From there my signal goes to the Spicetone 6Appeal, whose paramaters I control with the 6 knobs (Mono pickup level, dry hex pu level, distortion level, LPF cutoff, LPF resonance, envelope attack speed). The 6Appeal's mono output jack's signal then goes to a volume pedal, then to alll the mono pedals you see on the floor. The individual string outs from the 6Appeal and the stereo outs at the end of the pedal chain all go to the Eventide H8000FW. Then I sum all the channels to stereo in my Metric Halo audio interface, and send that signal to a channel strip: Sonic Farm Creamer+ tube preamp -> Aurora GTC2 Compressor -> API 5500 EQ. From there, an aux send goes to the Lexicon PCM80 for delay and reverb, and the sum of both the guitar and the reverb all are then routed to the Looperlative LP1, where I can create up to 8 independent loops simultaneously.








Also here's a sneak peek at my next project, a Fender Bass VI modified with the same Cycfi electronics (tbh i don't intend to use pickups from any other company ever again)

Elantric

Quotecustom warmoth jaguar w/ Cycfi Nu multichannel pickup and Fishmna Tripleplay in bridge position, and a Cycfi XR in the bridge. 19 pin output jack transmits up to 12 audio channels (6 string outs and 1 mono neck pickup in my case), + 7 channels of CV from the special pots and blade switch, to Cycfi's Nexus breakout box, which converts the CV signals to midi.

How is the Guitar to MIDI latency of Cycfi + Cycfi Nexus (CV signals to midi) compare to the Tripleplay Guitar to MIDI?

chlorinemist

Quote from:  Elantric on April 26, 2017, 10:55:48 AM
How is the Guitar to MIDI latency of Cycfi + Cycfi Nexus (CV signals to midi) compare to the Tripleplay Guitar to MIDI?

Quick clarification. When I said the Nexus converts CV to MIDI, I'm not talking about pitch tracking. The Cycfi technology is actually not designed for pitch-to-MIDI purposes (thus why I use them side-by-side), but instead is designed explicitly for polyphonic fx processing. The guitar knobs and switches are designed to transmit CV, which the Nexus converts to MIDI CC and program change signals so I can use the knobs to change parameters on my gear. Among many other uses, it's a clever workaround to avoid the complexity of a multichannel volume knob (i simply set one of the knobs to control the master volume on my fx processors), and sending program changes from the blade switch allows me to switch between presets to effectively switch my pickup configuration (much like on a normal guitar, except this way the possibilities are effectively endless).


Smash

Quote from:  chlorinemist on April 26, 2017, 10:46:50 AM
custom warmoth jaguar w/ Cycfi Nu multichannel pickup and Fishmna Tripleplay in bridge position, and a Cycfi XR in the bridge. 19 pin output jack transmits up to 12 audio channels (6 string outs and 1 mono neck pickup in my case), + 7 channels of CV from the special pots and blade switch, to Cycfi's Nexus breakout box, which converts the CV signals to midi. From there my signal goes to the Spicetone 6Appeal, whose paramaters I control with the 6 knobs (Mono pickup level, dry hex pu level, distortion level, LPF cutoff, LPF resonance, envelope attack speed). The 6Appeal's mono output jack's signal then goes to a volume pedal, then to alll the mono pedals you see on the floor. The individual string outs from the 6Appeal and the stereo outs at the end of the pedal chain all go to the Eventide H8000FW. Then I sum all the channels to stereo in my Metric Halo audio interface, and send that signal to a channel strip: Sonic Farm Creamer+ tube preamp -> Aurora GTC2 Compressor -> API 5500 EQ. From there, an aux send goes to the Lexicon PCM80 for delay and reverb, and the sum of both the guitar and the reverb all are then routed to the Looperlative LP1, where I can create up to 8 independent loops simultaneously.

Is there any audio of this set up anywhere we can hear? looks so cool and personally I'd really love to hear the sounds this rig makes  :)

chlorinemist

Quote from:  Smash on May 25, 2017, 04:42:31 AM
Is there any audio of this set up anywhere we can hear? looks so cool and personally I'd really love to hear the sounds this rig makes  :)

You're in luck! I just recorded a lil demo of my rig, just before I read  your post. Here's the link:
https://soundcloud.com/chlorinemist/sketch-52517/s-ozOZq

Starts with my dry sound, then I stack fx one at a time in various combos, then I turn them back off again at the end

Smash

Wow - that's nuts! Culminates in sounding like some massive, harmonised monster synth cello section at the end - that hex distortion is really interesting! The hex distortion on VG99 I found totally uninspiring...

chlorinemist

Quote from:  Smash on May 25, 2017, 07:24:28 AM
Wow - that's nuts! Culminates in sounding like some massive, harmonised monster synth cello section at the end - that hex distortion is really interesting! The hex distortion on VG99 I found totally uninspiring...

I'm of the opinion that the Spicetone 6Appeal is the best pedal of all time. Second to none. All the filter sweeps you hear are me controlling the 6Appeal's analog LPFs with an exp pedal. It is just amazing to play with, I can't recommend it enough. Can't believe I'm one of less than 100 owners of one. It's the foundation of my entire setup. Makes me feel like I ought to buy one or two more, knowing that in the far future it might be impossible to replace it

chrish

Quote from:  chlorinemist on May 25, 2017, 07:58:34 AM
I'm of the opinion that the Spicetone 6Appeal is the best pedal of all time. Second to none. All the filter sweeps you hear are me controlling the 6Appeal's analog LPFs with an exp pedal. It is just amazing to play with, I can't recommend it enough. Can't believe I'm one of less than 100 owners of one. It's the foundation of my entire setup. Makes me feel like I ought to buy one or two more, knowing that in the far future it might be impossible to replace it
from reading the spicetone website it sounds like the engineer has ideas to produce more hex analog pedals, that is if the 6appeal is well received.

chlorinemist

Quote from: chrish on May 25, 2017, 08:36:18 AM
from reading the spicetone website it sounds like the engineer has ideas to produce more hex analog pedals, that is if the 6appeal is well received.

Indeed I get the same impression. I really really really would love to see that actually come to fruition, because I have no doubt they would knock it out of the park. Sad to see it so slow to gain traction in the market, but honestly it makes a good amount of sense that it's just going to have to build its reputation slowly. I think a lot of the guitarists that would otherwise be interested in 6Appeal are scared off because of the hex requirement, and they think that means abandoning real guitar pickups in favor of a GK. It kinda makes sense that if you're gonna use a GK for polyphonic audio effects, you might be best off using Roland gear that is calibrated specifically to compensate for the GK and simulate guitar pickup tones. I myself didn't seriously consider getting it until I discovered Cycfi and Ubertar's hex pickups, which fit in real pickup slots and are specifically designed to naturally have a great guitar tone, as opposed to GKs, which were designed for optimal pitch tracking with a "we'll fix it in DSP!" mindset when it came time to repurpose it for audio fx.

If I'm using Roland gear, dsp  pickup modeling will do me just fine. But for an all analog distortion device like the 6Appeal, you really want the audio signal going into it to be as high quality as it can possibly be. Cycfi really handles this side of the equation beautifully, but they too are a tiny company that hardly anyone knows exists. But their pickups make the 6Appeal infinitely more compelling, and vice versa. Hopefully both companies will see growth over the next few years as people become aware of the synergy between these two emerging technologies.

But really what needs to happen is someone has to use this stuff and make a killer album. That's how you really get products like these off the ground. I have a feeling it's only a matter of time until then...

chrish

#9
The comment concerning the 6appeal producing a super saw wave had me thinking that this pedal turns the guitar string into a saw core oscillator.

Once you have a Sawtooth wave all that is required is to send that wave into a waveshaper or wave folder and triangle, Square, and sine waves can be produced. Run those waves into filters and amps with adsr envelopes and you have polyphonic analogue guitar synthesis.

kind of where Roland left off when they abandoned their analog guitar synthesizer technology in favor of digital synth engines.

chlorinemist

My Bass VI is nearing completion   :)


Very excited to hear how it sounds.

GuitarBuilder

"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

NTXGizzi

I would be curious about the tracking with the Cycfi pickups.  Also curious about the direct analog sound...

Quote from: chlorinemist on May 31, 2017, 01:55:29 AM
My Bass VI is nearing completion   :)

Very excited to hear how it sounds.

chlorinemist

I've changed my mind about the Eventide H8000's hexaphonic pitchshifting abilities. After fine tuning my system and receiving many helpful tips from users on here and elsewhere, I've found that the H8000 is actually stellar for this purpose. I even made a preset to shift my tuning to all 5ths, a la Robert Fripp's New Standard Tuning. Tuning the whole guitar down a 5th, 7th and even and octave works pretty smoothly. I've learned also that it does in fact have lower latency than my EHX Pitchfork, when the input signal is sufficiently isolated from crossover and noise. Reducing noise (ground loop issues that have since been fixed) was a big factor in improving the performance of the algos.

I no longer have any doubt that the H9000 will be a monstrous tool for hex guitarists.

I recorded a clip just now demonstrating a wide range of sounds created with the Cycfi Nu, Eventide H8000 (set for +5th harmonization on DSP A, feeding an 8 channel panning delay), Spicetone 6Appeal (distortion, poly tremolo, string panning), RT Electronix Threeway (tri chorus), Lexicon PCM80 (reverb), Cytomic The Drop (low pass filter), and a Looperlative LP1 stereo looper. Notice the hammered dulcimer-esque timbres achieved by the hex pitch shifting. No synthesizers as always

Listen here: https://soundcloud.com/chlorinemist/sketch-7517/s-igei1

mooncaine


chlorinemist

Now planning to buy a GK breakout box in order to place the H8000 both before AND after the Spicetone. This will allow me to do 8 channel pitch shifting with DSP block A pre distortion, and use DSP block B for 8 channel delays post-distortion/post-filter. This signal flow seems very confusing and circular at first but the more I use it the more it makes sense. Here's the diagram of my new proposed signal chain:


chlorinemist



Just got my Saturnworks 3 input summing mixer foot pedal.

For anyone pondering how to combine the independent pickup outputs from their multichannel guitar/Nexus to process multiple pickups with a monophonic fx pedal chain, for traditional guitar purposes, I've found this to be a very cool solution.

I've got it set up right now for my Nexus Bass VI, which has two XR duals and a Nu 6 in the bridge. I feed the pickup outputs for the two xrs from the nexus to inputs 1 and 2 on the Saturnworks.

My 6 Nu outputs are feeding my Spicetone 6Appeal, which in turn feeds 6 inputs on the Eventide H8000 for multichannel pitch and delay effects, and then send the 6 outputs to a mono aux out, which goes to the 3rd input on the summing mixer.

So, the three buttons correspond with the neck, middle, and bridge pickup respectively, and each have their own volume knob for setting precise levels. Easy and simple, yet endlessly powerful.

Very low noise, high quality summing in this box, definitely better than my old Rane SM26B

chlorinemist

Two beautiful works of art arrived in my studio today: Electrix Repeater and Electrix MoFX


Today is a glorious day

chlorinemist

After much whining early on, I've finally got a hang of using my H8000 for polyphonic pitch shifting. I made this recording comparing it side by side with an Electro Harmonix polyphonic pitch shifter, both at -1 octave, 100% wet to simulate a bass. The contrast is stark, as should be expected... The H8000 lives up to it's reputation. Stunning detail. Respect to Eventide

https://soundcloud.com/chlorinemist/bass-simulation-cycfi-nu-eventide-h800-vs-ehx-pitch-fork/s-2PIHL

chlorinemist

New plans. Been in talks with some friends developing for the H9000. After learning the H9000 has the power of 16 H8000s, buying one as soon as they are released has changed from a "maybe" to a "definitely".

vanceg

Quote from: chlorinemist on August 07, 2017, 05:37:13 PM
New plans. Been in talks with some friends developing for the H9000. After learning the H9000 has the power of 16 H8000s, buying one as soon as they are released has changed from a "maybe" to a "definitely".

The estimate that I have heard  is that the H9000 would run about 16x H8000 algorithms.  Remember that the H8000 could run 2 at the same time... so, I think that estimate is really that the H9000 could run about 8x what the H8K did.  But - The company hasn't made a full release of the specs. 

But, in any case, it looks to be INSANELY powerful!!!  And, WHO KNOWS - I could be wrong and perhaps it IS 16x. 

Minor clarification. MAJOR upgrade in power.

aliensporebomb

#21
A very expensive but very desirable box - and with a lots of cool esoteric toys - super nice.  Your setup is amazing! 

I really want to play with an H8000 or an H9000.  But even used they're quite spendy.

But my cheap workaround is I use the pitch transposer the VG-99 in conjunction with effects to create H8000-like sounds:

Example - VG-99 with custom patch into Strymon Big Sky Reverb direct to board:
https://soundcloud.com/aliensporebomb/mondoshawan-visit

If I can get bigger more expansive sounds with one of the H8K/H9K I'd love to go for it.   

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

nix808

I just started using this pitch shifter I built->

It works by grain resampling,
it's rough, but, you know-it works.
You can get it free here->
www.phonicsaudio.com
It's called Shifter Redlight.
32-bit windows VSTfx

Pitch shifting technology is a must now in my setup
Rock and Rock my boat, as long as you don't rock and rock my boat!hehe

chlorinemist

Quote from: nix808 on August 08, 2017, 01:45:55 PM
I just started using this pitch shifter I built->

It works by grain resampling,
it's rough, but, you know-it works.
You can get it free here->
www.phonicsaudio.com
It's called Shifter Redlight.
32-bit windows VSTfx

Pitch shifting technology is a must now in my setup

You just built a 32 bit plugin? in 2017?? why?!

nix808

#24
I think I built it in 2013,
just now I have started using it for hex guitar.

32-bit is fine, just you need a 32-bit DAW, not computer-

I can't really write code(I mean something like C++   --I do code), I hack around with JUCE and VS, but I dunno what I'm doing.
Flowstone where I export the plugs is like a hell technical pedalboard.

Flowstone allows me to do these things, we do it solid(it is a well used and abused environ/method).

My website needs to be updated- I am now not doing physical tooling(my tools/workshop will be in another state),
and will make all my releases seemingly perfect if I can-
I will be focussed on music and software.

edits- for clarity and a typo
Rock and Rock my boat, as long as you don't rock and rock my boat!hehe