The Most Powerful 1/4" Guitar Synth in the Known Universe

Started by Rhcole, April 19, 2017, 04:18:29 PM

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Rhcole

You can do more but you can't do better.
Look for my forthcoming review of the Synth 9 in the EHX section over the next couple of days.

This crammed pedalboard blends the Mel 9  with the Synth 9 into the SY-300 using the LS-2. The Boss foot pedal controls the synth volumes into the SY. The EV-5 controls the SY-300. The Nebulus adds additional modulation, and the Freeze creates sustained synth sounds.

Best rig ever.

mchad


8)

I'd love to hear some tones from this board. What amplification do you use with it?

Elantric

Quote from: Rhcole on April 19, 2017, 04:18:29 PM
You can do more but you can't do better.
Look for my forthcoming review of the Synth 9 in the EHX section over the next couple of days.

This crammed pedalboard blends the Mel 9  with the Synth 9 into the SY-300 using the LS-2. The Boss foot pedal controls the synth volumes into the SY. The EV-5 controls the SY-300. The Nebulus adds additional modulation, and the Freeze creates sustained synth sounds.

Best rig ever.

And you could go wireless if you want

Rhcole

Mchad,

In my office I run through a Cube Street Ex or for portable gigs. I also have a Roland SA-300 amp with 350 watts if needed. These are PA amps. Until recently I used outboard gear to get a better guitar amp sound, but I'm getting good at using the amp/drive/tone controls within the SY-300 OD module to get a decent amp within the SY. I overlooked those features for quite some time and didn't think the SY could sound right on its own, but it all sounds pretty good now.

chrish


mchad

Quote from: Rhcole on April 19, 2017, 05:48:45 PM
Mchad,

In my office I run through a Cube Street Ex or for portable gigs. I also have a Roland SA-300 amp with 350 watts if needed. These are PA amps. Until recently I used outboard gear to get a better guitar amp sound, but I'm getting good at using the amp/drive/tone controls within the SY-300 OD module to get a decent amp within the SY. I overlooked those features for quite some time and didn't think the SY could sound right on its own, but it all sounds pretty good now.

Thanks. I'm sort of gravitating toward an SY300. It's got effects I use and Boss put midi clock in it. They got serious with the sequencer/slicer tones too. I'm thinking my GP10 and an SY300 for a small board that offers a big palette.

Rhcole

Synth 9 review is up and posted. Check it out.  :)

Rhcole

Also Mchad, the GP-10 and SY-300 are incredible together, you can't go wrong.

ffata

If you have a moment, I would also love to hear a sound sample or two.
Thanks

Rhcole

#9
Version 2.0 pedalboard shown here. If you are interested in the SY-300, take a moment to read the post about the through/return loop that I put up last night. I eliminated the extra volume pedal, added the SansAmp and noise gate, dropped the Freeze (too much trouble).

Quick conclusions: 1/4" synths are great for soloing, less so for chords. But, with "artful dodging" I can use these boxes to produce poly blends that you would swear are clean even when you know they can't be. I don't have an easy recording setup in this house, but maybe I'll cobble something together to produce a couple of examples. Last night I had the unaltered Mel 9 and Synth 9 together dry with no added FX, and I have to say they sounded teeth-gritting ghastly. But then I kicked in the SY, and it was all sweetness and light.

Bill Ruppert is the master of playing to what something gives you, I try to learn by example.

Rhcole

For those still interested and following this thread, I got to spend a few hours with this today, and it really sounds great. The secret is to take the edge off of the Synth 9 and use modulation and other FX to blend the voices in. I play complex chords and intervals and am very demanding regarding polyphony. So, I spend a lot of time working at blending the voices in so they support rather than overpower the regular guitar.

This would not be able to replace a synth driven by the FTP if your goal is to have the poly voices up front and intimate. If you are determined to have Prophet V patches as the centerpiece of your sound, look elsewhere. But it can absolutely sound like a MIDI stack if the regular guitar is your main course and the synth supports it.

alexmcginness

Looking at this pedal board takes me back to the late 60s thru the 70s and beyond,  when we had bunches of individual boxes glued and then Velcro'd to pieces of painted plywood, working in cover bands. The main drawback of this type of setup as it was for Mini Moog players back then was "no presets"
   Every change for the next song was accompanied by looking like an exercise instructor, quickly bending over and hurriedly tweaking knobs in the hopes of approximating your sound for the upcoming tune.
   For me this kind of setup is great for doing stuff in the studio but for live? No thanks. Im to use to hitting one pedal now a days, and having everything pop up "now" tweaked and ready to play. As good as this pedal board may sound I could never go back. Something like this in the studio would be a ton of fun though.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

aliensporebomb

Any chance of a recording of this rig with everything running at once?  It's like an octopus of potential!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

mchad

Quote from: Rhcole on April 20, 2017, 12:05:09 AM
Also Mchad, the GP-10 and SY-300 are incredible together, you can't go wrong.

SY300 now on the way. Initially looking to blend the SY with a straight guitar (no GP10). In fact I'd probably start by using the effects as I'm busy selling pedals to get the SY. Looks like I've got plenty of reading to do here at VG headquarters as the SY appears to be deeper than I first thought.

Rhcole

Maybe I will have to record a demo or two. I have to pull some stuff out and hook it up.

The SY-300 is very deep to master. Features that seem inconsequential or are only mentioned in the manual briefly can open out into an entire range of options.

chrish

Quote from: Rhcole on April 24, 2017, 09:58:52 AM
Maybe I will have to record a demo or two. I have to pull some stuff out and hook it up.

The SY-300 is very deep to master. Features that seem inconsequential or are only mentioned in the manual briefly can open out into an entire range of options.
yes like the amp hidden in the OD effects that you already mentioned in this thread.

Rhcole

Here's Rev 3 pared down to absolute minimum components. I could still lose the Nebulus if I want, but I like it. I am compromising somewhat by removing the Tech21 Direct Box, but the Amp inside the SY works great if set carefully. And, it also has a noise gate for my buzzy Telecaster.

It doesn't look like much at all, does it? but man, what a combo! My lovely Gretsch is making a discrete guest appearance.

Here is what I wrote in the SY-300 section that explains the thinking behind this. I drove the Osc section of the SY with the Synth 9 last night, it was transcendent.

"Here's what makes this special. The S9 has heavy compression and very distinct waveforms that the SY loves. When you run the S9 into the SY, you get a distinct character for each waveform the S9 produces imprinted on SY Oscs. BUT, in the SY, you can change attack, waveforms, octaves, etc. So the S9, which is pretty limited as far as its own sonic palette, in partnership with the SY produces a greatly expanded range of options. Further, the various modulations in the S9 cause organic and slightly unpredictable fluctuations in the SY. They can be very musical, or in some cases, they don't work.

Because the S9 produces distinct waveforms, in some cases the tracking is better than if you use a guitar straight into the SY. The limitation is that the S9 itself doesn't have perfect tracking, so if you hit it the wrong way (think dissonant intervals) you get the S9 and SY that BOTH can't track what you are playing. That doesn't sound very good. Also, the String Voice #8 on the S9 can't track at all, it sounds like whimpering kittens. I wanted to apologize to my equipment for even trying it.

The right way to use the S9 into the SY is to run two cables in- one from the S9 synth into the main input of the SY, and the direct out into the Return jack on the SY. This way, you can process the pure Oscs in the SY without having the regular guitar blended in, or you can do partial blends.

Since I have both the Mel 9 and the Synth 9, I have decided to run the Mel 9 into the Return jack and the Synth 9 into the input. That seems to offer the maximum flexibility of settings. The Mel 9 doesn't offer waveforms interesting enough to drive the SY Oscs, so it is mostly about being able to process it separately from the synth section. It's also surprisingly simple to connect: the guitar goes into the Mel 9, its output goes into the Return jack on the SY and the clean out goes into the Synth 9. The Synth 9 goes into the Input of the SY and you're done. In my case I have a Mod box on the Mel 9 but it isn't mission-critical.

This combo is a real instrument. It will take months to explore all of the ins/outs."

Rhcole

Here's a 30 second fragment I took from a looper. It is everything at once- almost TOO much. But you asked to hear it, ASB. I just sat on the notes so you can hear the sounds.

You are hearing the SY Oscs driven by the S9 OBX patch blended in with an added 5th, and the Mel 9 in the background.

Rhcole

A short demo of portamento/glide with the SY and S9 working hard together to convince you that you are not really listening to a Fender Telecaster Thinline.
I buy it, and I was there!

FYI, the S9 Portamento voice doesn't respond to fast playing, so using the SY you'd need to use a few tricks to work around it if that was your goal.

GuitarBuilder

I wonder if using a GR-300 instead of the S9 going into SY-300 will work?
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

chrish

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on May 05, 2017, 08:41:01 AM
I wonder if using a GR-300 instead of the S9 going into SY-300 will work?
it should work. I send the VG 99 emulation of gr 300 into the sy300 all the time. The sy300 likes complex waveforms to process.

Rhcole

Sure it will. I've used the GP-10. The thing is, though you want to feed the SY interesting waveforms to get a greater range of sounds. The GR-300 might be almost too close to the SY to make it really interesting. It would hdowever create the effect of having massive GR voices and you would also have all of the FX.

Rhcole

Here is the final demo of this I will post, and the summary of why I wrote this up. The first part of the demo is the Synth 9 by itself; second part is the SY-300 by itself; and the third part is the Synth 9 driving the SY-300. To me, this is proof of the argument "the sum is greater than the parts". When the two boxes are combined you get a patch that would be worthy of Omnisphere, with a richness and complexity that neither could deliver on its own.

And all of this through a 1/4" jack. To me, this is something brand new in the world of stomp boxes.  :)

GuitarBuilder

"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Elantric

Quote from: RogerVG8EX on June 22, 2017, 12:23:54 PM
Boss MDP pedals are underrated. The Multi Overtone are still unknown among guitarists, which is very rare because the Tera Echo is perfect for soundscapes. .

Agreeed!
Boss MO-2 fell under my Radar - only discovered it in the Boss GT-1