Author Topic: GK-13 Pin Cable FAQ  (Read 824 times)

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Offline Toby Krebs

Re: GK-13 Pin Cable FAQ
« Reply #125 on: December 29, 2014, 10:47:02 AM »
I must be a much more stationary performer than most here as I have had only one 13 pin cable fail on me in 25 years.I just make sure that I am not standing on them or that the female singer is not either and I have been okay lol!

Offline whippinpost91850

Re: GK-13 Pin Cable FAQ
« Reply #126 on: December 29, 2014, 01:32:16 PM »
I must be a much more stationary performer than most here as I have had only one 13 pin cable fail on me in 25 years.I just make sure that I am not standing on them or that the female singer is not either and I have been okay lol!
This has pretty much been my experience as well

Offline Jim Wintringham

Re: GK-13 Pin Cable FAQ
« Reply #127 on: January 17, 2015, 11:59:17 AM »
I just got a nice precision soldering iron (small pointed tip)....so, I decided to try fixing 2 old cables that both had noise/ hum issues. I used an ohm meter to test the cables. They both showed a lot of 'bouncing around' when reading the shield grounds. I opened up the ends, by pushing up the locking tab (opposite side from the grounding contact), then sliding the plastic cover back over the cable wire. The little grounding contact just 'floats' on the shield case, and falls off with the plastic cover pulled back (not very sturdy). I retouched the solder on the shield wire, then put a small amount of solder on the pivot point of the floating contact (while it was loose from the assembly). I then put it in place, melted the solder I had added....making a firm contact (no more floating). I made sure the contact point was stuck out (no longer moves when pressing the unlock button). Then slid the cover back into place (it clicks). Tried them out....NO NOISE! ;D
They still come loose from the GR-55 easily, and snap into place firmly.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 12:29:14 PM by Elantric »
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Roland kc-300

Online Elantric

Re: GK-13 Pin Cable FAQ
« Reply #128 on: January 17, 2015, 12:24:16 PM »
Thanks Jim for reporting your Noise "Fix!" on your Gk 13 Cable Ground connection,

Its surprising to learn very few Roland GK13 Cables  employ Soldered connections, instead most use Crimped electrical connections on the 13 pin DIN Plugs, and these often go bad over time!






Below is a soldered connection


The ramifications of an intermittent Ground Connection anywhere along the GK 13 pin cable can be damaging  - and its less of a problem for the other 13 pin gear , where an intermittent 13 pin cable ground for Guitar to MIDI, PCM Synth box (i.e. no COSM GUITAR MODELING - specifically the  Roland GR-1, GR-09,GR-20, GR-30, GR-33) the CPU that triggers MIDI events typically can recover from a temporary loss of Ground  - not so with the VG-8, VG-88, VG-99,GR-55, GP-10  -  temporary loss of Ground on the later will send high volume buzz, static, noise into your Amp/PA  and that type behavior can ruin the chances of your acoustic guitar / tabla player duo getting re-hired. It ruins the show everytime if your GK 13 cable make noise anytime your GK Cable is touched / Moved / vibrated/ impacted by the rhythmic cycle of the drum riser,or sitting on top of a subwoofer on a live stage.


Its typically a bad 13 pin cable that has crimped (and not soldered) ground (shield)wire inside the male DIN13 plugs on each end of the Gk Cable. check that if contact cleaner doe not deliver instant positive results. Turns out that direct Exposure to the air we all breath tends to corrode all electrical contacts. Thats why the Top tier electronic companies use Mil-Spec components, with oxygen free contacts - like a $200 LEMO Connector
http://www.lemo.com/catalog/ROW/UK_English/f_series.pdf

http://www.lemo.com/en/rugged-connector/f-connector?domain=%5Bterm_node_tid_1%5D

Quote
Switzerland
LEMO S.A.
Chemin de Champs-Courbes 28
P.O. Box 194
CH-1024 Ecublens, Switzerland

Tel : 00 41 21 695 16 00
Fax : 00 41 21 695 16 02
Mail : info@lemo.com

Roland doesn't  use that type - - instead it employs Circular DIN 13 connection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector

A DIN connector is an electrical connector that was originally standardized by the Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN), the German national standards organization. There are DIN standards for a large number of different connectors, therefore the term "DIN connector" alone does not unambiguously identify any particular type of connector unless the document number of the relevant DIN standard is added (e.g., "DIN 41524 connector"). Some DIN connector standards are:
DIN 41524, for circular connectors often used for audio signals
DIN 41612, rectangular connectors used to connect plug-in cards to a back plane or motherboard
DIN 41652 D-subminiature connectors used for computer data and video
In the context of consumer electronics, the term "DIN connector" commonly refers to a member of a family of circular connectors that were initially standardized by DIN for analog audio signals. Some of these connectors have also been used in analog video applications and for digital interfaces such as MIDI or the IBM AT computer keyboard (later PS/2 connectors for keyboard and mouse are Mini-DIN connectors). The original DIN standards for these connectors are no longer in print and have been replaced with the equivalent international standard IEC 60130-9.


The Roland  GK-13 Specification supplies only one Ground Reference connection for:

 7 unbalanced analog audio signals (6 strings+Normal PU)

 2 DC Voltage Controls ( GK-VOL) , Voltage Ladder Input (Pin#9 Selector Switch Status),

 2 GPI Inputs ( S1, S2 momentary switches)

 +7VDC Power

 -7VDC Power

Thats all 13 pins - and a good Electronic Design engineer with a few years real world experience would tell you "Hey! You Forgot something!
They would have budgeted multiple Ground pins - with a separate Analog Signal Ground Reference, Digital Signal Ground Reference, Power Return Ground, RF/EMI Shield   
 
Yet every Guitar Center Salesman is still trained to call this a MIDI Cable


 By contrast the older Roland  24 pin GR-300 , GR-700  a large "Rectangular Shell connection which employed 4 separate reliable Ground connections!

http://www.joness.com/gr300/24pin.htm
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 02:12:37 PM by Elantric »

Online Elantric

Re: GK-13 Pin Cable FAQ
« Reply #129 on: January 17, 2015, 02:26:46 PM »
If you have a trusted 13 pin cable with Soldered contacts and Ground shield - and STILL have problems with noise during cable movement -

the problem is typically oxidized contact on the GK Jack on your Instrument or the  GK Input jack on the Ground contact here:



The weakest link is the shell electrical contact on the female 13 pin DIN jack.

Member "Piezo" wrote>
Quote
But close inspection with good lighting will reveal that on Roland Gear, there are also two spring contacts on the female input. On the GK-2a these are opposite the locking pin, and are one with the PCB's two solder joints for ground. On the GR-33 they are on the locking pin side, also one with the ground solder joints.
While at some point these two contacts may get corroded enough to suggest a bad ground contact, they press the shell of the connector hard enough to become "scraped" every time a plug is inserted.

True!
But Many of these "GK" DIN-13 Female jacks particularly on third party GK accessories have a very poor contact with the Male DIN plug's Shell Ground connection. Mid song during a live show if you hear gargles of static noises coincident with moving the GK Cable - you know its time for Cable replacement, repair or a short spritz of Caig Deoxit D-5 contact cleaner, make direct contact with the internal Ground Contact deep within Female DIN 13 Jack (GK INPUT) on your VG-8, VG-88, VG-99,GR-55, GP-10 Hex COSM, RACKVAX



« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 06:57:40 PM by Elantric »

Offline stratrat

Re: GK-13 Pin Cable FAQ
« Reply #130 on: April 14, 2015, 04:14:50 PM »
I've run across another issue that I haven't seen anyone else mention, but I've encountered with at least three Roland cables. What happens is the plastic sleeve on the plug shifts forward, which stops the plug from going very deeply into the socket and increasing the chances of bad connections. Pull the sleeve back into place and the plug connects properly again.

Anyone else encounter this?

Offline mooncaine

Re: GK-13 Pin Cable FAQ
« Reply #131 on: July 21, 2017, 01:36:51 PM »
I've run across another issue that I haven't seen anyone else mention, but I've encountered with at least three Roland cables. What happens is the plastic sleeve on the plug shifts forward, which stops the plug from going very deeply into the socket and increasing the chances of bad connections. Pull the sleeve back into place and the plug connects properly again.

Anyone else encounter this?

I encountered something similar, with Best-Tronics 13-pin cables. On at least 2 of their cables (I stopped buying them when I realized this).

Instead of sliding forward, toward the end, the plastic sleeve on these BestTronic cables slides backward, away from the end. That makes it difficult to remove the cables, because the sleeve is the part you squeeze, and it pushes the metal locking pin. It's hard to get them out of my gear without sliding or wiggling the plug... and I don't want to do that very much. I'd rather risk messing up a cable than the whole VG or GR unit.

I've got a pair of newer cables, from CodeSmart (forum member here), that don't have this issue. I recommend CodeSmart's cables, having tried 2 of them so far. A+.

 

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