RC-300 Too Busy!

Started by chrish, June 25, 2016, 12:26:28 PM

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chrish

So this is kind of funny. I just finished recording a loop on track to and then an un-synced loop solo over the loop on track 3, which went on for some time. I went to listen back to the two tracks and the error message 'Too Busy!' appeared on the screen which means that the rc unit could not process the data. It also freezes up the machine so that music is gone, gone, and gone. Now i know to write the tracks before playback. I think roland should address this issue and change the error message to ''out for coffee, your work is gone, read the manaul sucker'' :-)

shawnb

I know that there was a firmware update that addressed "Too busy" messages.  Might want to confirm you're current.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

chrish

#2
I checked the version and it reads ver =1.10 rev= 1840 uver= 1.01. There is another thread on this and this freeze up bug was supposed to have been fixed in ver 1.02. When i check the roland site, it says the latest version is 1.05. Don't suppose that the ''uver'', which says 1.01 is the actual version number, but most likely (not) because one poster in the update thread reported their version as, ver=1.05 rev=1837 and uver=1.01. The mystery continues. edit to add (not).

chrish

Quote from:  sec6
New units come with the 1.10 firmware as you have, but this newer firmware is not available for download.  See this thread for more info: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11596.0
The last poster in that thread reports simular freezes with ver 1.10, so the issue was never fixed or resurfaced in the newer units with ver1.10 which roland doesn't offer as an upgrade. That's smart because why release an update with known bugs. I think these bugs are heading under the carpet. Must be 'too busy' at roland. :-)

aliensporebomb

Just go back to v1.05.  I've never had this error with v1.05 firmware.  "The latest and greatest isn't always the best."
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

chrish

Quote from: aliensporebomb on June 26, 2016, 09:00:48 PM
Just go back to v1.05.  I've never had this error with v1.05 firmware.  "The latest and greatest isn't always the best."
I spoke with the excellent customer support guy at roland and he says that if you have version 1.10 you can't go back to older an version. There may have been some firmware updates at the factory that are unique to the newer units that were shipped with version 1.10, which may also explain why 1.10 was not made available as an update for older units. He suggested that the error message doesn't necessarily mean that there is a bug and to write the tracks before moving on to other unit functions.

shawnb

Given I've seen videos of folks using 3 tracks with overdubs, I suspect there is something about the specific activity that may be contributing to the problem.   

I think you suggested that you use very long loops...  That might be part of it.  But I doubt that 'long loops' on its own is the problem. 

Do you vary tempo?  Do you record at 100bpm & require playback at 120bpm?  If you do not require tempo synchronization, I would suggest turning Tempo Sync off on all tracks.  It may be that the looper is performing unnecessary overhead of long loops (a big task).

I would review settings with an eye towards what may be adding unnecessary processing.  Lots of settings on the RC300...   My initial suspicion is Tempo Sync. 

Just a thought...   

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

chrish

#7
The freeze up occured with track loop sync off and tempo sync on, tempo set at 80, plenty of memory left. Short loop on track 2 and just recorded a long solo on track 3. There was already a saved short track on track 1. As i turned track 3 out of record mode i quicky turned down track volume on track 1 and hit the all play button and then the 'Too Busy' error message. I suspect that my lighting quick button pushes, :-), was to much for the rc to handle, hence the error message. It's fine that the rc needs more time to process the moves, but to crash and loose the work, imo, indictes a software ware problem or the dsp is not powerful enough for how the unit is supposed to work. But that's fine. I know now to work slower and to write the tracks. However, if you read the other update thread, near the end, one poster with a new rc was having freeze up's after the third over dub during a live performance, and that's not good. As a side note, i read that micro-soft lost a $10,000 law suit because windows 10 forced it's way onto a ladies computer. Same thing happened to a relative after he repetedly clicked no, don't install. He had to spend alot of time with micro-soft support to resolve the issue and reinstall windows 7. Wait, did i just hijack my own thread. :-). What's going on in the computer world. Bugs that aren't bugs to the company line, are still bugs. I could not recommend the rc-300 to anyone, it's the only piece of purpose built music hardware gear that i own that has  crashed. Did the rc-50 also have some issues that were never resolved?

shawnb

My point being, if you don't need tempo sync  on, you should try it with it off.  You may find it less sensitive/prone to issues.  Just a suggestion. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

chrish

Thanks, i do appreciate your suggestions and advice.  I use tempo sync all the time. Also, the rc-300 serves as the master clock for the two sy-300, and the two korg synths and sometimes a roland mc-300 sequencer when i need to know what messure the loop is in. I'll often use the rc drum beat to keep time or follow or a synced delay echo or a seqencer pattern on one of the korg synths. The clock midi goes to the sy-300's and after that the midi signal is merged with the pitch to midi in a peavy midi streamer and then into a korg midi patch bay before heading out to the midi synth modules. So with all that happening, the weak link in the gear chain is the rc-300 because by design, it crashes. And roland says it's not a bug even though they debugged this in version 1.02. But i do think you are correct, tempo sync does seem to require processing power that's not there. 

shawnb

#10
Your note above confuses me a bit.  Just to be clear: The Midi clock setting you describe above is not the Tempo Sync function.  They are two different things.   

The MIDI clock is the system wide "Memory: MIDI Sync" setting described on pg 21 in the manual.  This is the setting that enables clock sync & MIDI start & MIDI stop across all your gear as you describe above.   

Think of the RC-300 as a very powerful multi-track DAW, with groove clip functionality, even the ability to speed up or slow down your audio to make clips' tempos sync up - without altering the pitch of the recording.  (A significant tempo shift may, however, introduce audio artifacts, discussed elsewhere in this forum...)  You tell the RC-300 to do so with the Tempo Sync function. 

The Tempo Sync function is the track-specific "Track1: Tempo Sync" described on pg 18.  You set it on one, two, or all three tracks.  If you want to turn it off throughout, you should confirm that all 4 tempo values are what you want them to be (the 3 tracks + system).   

Changing the playback speed of an audio clip is in fact a very CPU intensive function, and telling the system to do so on a long clip could be the source of "too busy" issues. 

If you never want your audio sped-up or slowed-down, i.e., if you only want it played at the tempo recorded, you should try turning Tempo Sync off.   

If you use Tap Tempo to change tempo on-the-fly, during playback, you need it on. 

Tempo Sync also helps with other things, IIRC, it forces measure alignment of clip playback.  So sometimes turning it off or on has other unanticipated impacts.  You may prefer to keep it on. 

It wouldn't hurt to experiment.  Be brave.  It's not guaranteed to solve the problem, but it might. 

Hope this helps.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

chrish

#11
Quote: 

''Tempo Sync also helps with other things, IIRC, it forces measure alignment of clip playback.  So sometimes turning it off or on has other unanticipated impacts.  You may prefer to keep it on.'' unquote 

This ^.      Yesterday i repeated the short loop on track 2 and long solo on track 3. Before moving on to play back review, i saved the tracks (takes a bit of time) and the machine didn't freeze up. In my op I offered that writing (saving) the tracks would solve my problem and the Roland tech guy confirmed it. But according to one of the last posts on the thread on the version 1.10 update confussion, the freeze up can occur during other operational procedures. In that thread I also talk about a freeze up that required doing a factory reset.        I do realize that tempo clock and track tempo sync are seperate functions. They are related in that the track tempo sync and the midi clock of all my gear will always be the same tempo, and my imperfect note execution will hopefully benefit (At least until i get my chops back after several years sporadic practice). I record into the rc-300 and drop those wav files into the DAW for edit (hard for me to use a DAW and maintain music focus at the same time while recording). If the tempo pulses are aligned, my assumption is that clip cuts and re-alignment are more easily accomplished if the tracks  all share the same original tempo (and key or key mode) And yes, if you record at 80 and want to speed your track up to 120, you will encounter digital artifacts with this machine. Page 18 of the manual says ''normally you should leave tempo sync on'' unless you want to play a different tempo. Thanks for the extended discussion. Keeps the brain working.  ;-)

chrish

#12
And now with the short loop track 1- write. Loop on track 1 plays fine. Then i recorded a  long solo on track 2- write. Hold on, hold on, i'm predicting that the Rc-300 will go 100 percent failure within 5 minutes. And yes, we have a 'data damaged' error message totally unrelated to the 'meaning' listed in the manual. Looks like i'll be a requesting warrenty remedy from Roland tech support, it's possible i recieved a bad unit. In the other thread i reported having to perform a factory reset, just about right out of the box when the unit froze up after doing a few test loops.

chrish

#13
So now after five factory resets i am enjoying a stable rc-300 and using the rc exactly the same as above posts, tempo sync off, short loop on one track and long recording on another loop. I decided to call roland tech anyway since the warrenty will soon be over.

One possible explanation offered by the tech for the mishaps is that maybe  when i store files on the pc, a corrupt file is somehow being transfered to the rc-300 (The manual cautions against formating the rc, so that's not the issue).

But who knows. He instructed me to just keep an eye on it.