Boss GP-10 USB AUDIO/midi

Started by SLICK, March 12, 2014, 04:37:40 AM

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SLICK

Does anyone know if you can send audio and midi over the USB port at the same time?
Afaik this is a limitation with all of the gt and gr units.
Would make me change my mind about removing the GK3 on my guitar if you could.
Seems like a must have for a unit that has no synth times built in but then roland don't always deliver what I consider to be the obvious solution.
Parker fly deluxe,
Roland GR-55,
Laney LC30II

admin

#1
Quote
Does anyone know if you can send audio and midi over the USB port at the same time?
Afaik this is a limitation with all of the gt and gr units.
Yes GP-10 can do that. Same as VG-99 and GR-55 too.
What units were you thinking that can'tdo both at same time?

sixeight

#2
The VG99 will not send Midi when the usb system setting is set to Standard mode. Switch it to Advanced mode to fix this.

gumtown

#3
All the 2014 GT and GR USB type products can send duplex audio and midi over USB without limitation,
a USB driver software installed is required.

The GR-55 can do audio/midi on the USB while doing midi via the 5 pin ports independantly too.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

SLICK

#4
Ahh I was probably confusing myself with class compliant and audio / midi. Although I'm pretty sure that the gt series can only manage audio or midi over the usb. Will have to check.
Thanks for settin me straight anyway.
Interesting little pedal but as has already been mentioned probably not class compliant ;(
Parker fly deluxe,
Roland GR-55,
Laney LC30II

gumtown

#5
The GT series can do audio and midi over USB but can't do USB midi and 5-pin midi at the same time, it's one or the other.

I have used a GT-10 (before I got the GR-55)  with a USB cable to a laptop,
running GT-10 audio into the computer (tapped at the front of the chain),
through Guitar Rig5 and also though pitch to midi software,
then the midi routed to ZTA3+ softsynth, and synth audio & GR5 back out the GT-10,
and also used the GT-10 USB midi to change synth volume and GR5 parameters.
So it has worked sucessfully for me.

I am not sure how the live player is to get on with the USB only new gear,
if you want USB midi to drive a USB synth module,
and don't want a computer in the chain,
there has to be a (new product or invention perhaps) Roland compatable USB hub device capable of using the USB ports
without driver software needed (or drivers built into the hub).
And have the hub/switch capable of routing USB midi and USB audio to the connected devices (keyboards, modules, pedals, controllers)
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

amplayer

#6
Since you can capture the "dry" hex output from the guitar, it gives rise to the ability to process 6 possibly individual tracks using plugins like Guitar Rig, Amplitube, Waves, ... whatever.
I'm thinking a whole lot of cool new sounds will be discovered.
That is, we'll be able to use plugins to create our own new "poly effects".

gumtown

#7
Quote from: amplayer on March 28, 2014, 08:04:44 AM
Since you can capture the "dry" hex output from the guitar, it gives rise to the ability to process 6 possibly individual tracks using plugins like Guitar Rig, Amplitube, Waves, ... whatever.
I'm thinking a whole lot of cool new sounds will be discovered.
That is, we'll be able to use plugins to create our own new "poly effects".
Exactly !!  ;)
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

amplayer

#8
Quote from: gumtown on March 28, 2014, 01:26:09 PM
Exactly !!  ;)

Thing is, it will probably also present difficulties due to many factors such as crosstalk between strings, subharmonics, etc.
Should be fun though.

Elantric

#9
QuoteThing is, it will probably also present difficulties due to many factors such as crosstalk between strings, subharmonics, etc.
Should be fun though.

But think about - recording each string separately on 6 audio tracks in your favorite DAW app will serve as a useful tool for final GK-3 Setup, and be able to rapidly see and hear the results of your "correct" or "incorrect" GK-3 Installation - and see / hear any adjacent string cross-talk and work on taming it




as well as allow a path for "non MIDI"  hexaphonic Guitar Synthesis.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=post;msg=78256;topic=10782.25
QuoteUSB audio/MIDI interface for multi-channel audio recording (including individual string output) and guitar-to-MIDI conversion with GK pickup

I'm most excited about this new GP-10 utility for separate Processing of each string independently  - (rather like the 2009 Gibson Dark Fire), for Pure Data / NI Reaktor
QuoteIt does state re-amp and re-guitar. The second option would suggest poly string out and in. That would make it an amazingly flexible unit in combination with a laptop or Macbook.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4222.0

  [/i]


drjoness wrote>

Here is information on the specific settings needed for Reaktor:

http://www.joness.com/gr300/GK-Expander.htm#gsynth

And a demo video:


germanicus

#10
How about running 6 instantiations of the Midi Guitar VST (jam origin)? I imagine the results from that will probably be better than Rolands native Pitch To Midi.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

polaris20

#11
Quote from: germanicus on March 28, 2014, 06:45:33 PM
How about running 6 instantiations of the Midi Guitar VST (jam origin)? I imagine the results from that will probably be better than Rolands native Pitch To Midi.

Well now that's an interesting thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

amplayer

#12
Quote from: germanicus on March 28, 2014, 06:45:33 PM
How about running 6 instantiations of the Midi Guitar VST (jam origin)? I imagine the results from that will probably be better than Rolands native Pitch To Midi.

No matter how good the plugin is, if you do it in real time via the GP-10, the latency is likely to be higher than you'd like.
Now if the intention is to play in the recording while just listening to the guitar and then apply the pitch to MIDI afterward, that'd probably work well.

nolo68

#13
I am  new to the stuff, so maybe this might sound like a stupid question for you. Can I connect the boss gp 10 via USB to my yamaha p95 keyboard and use the sounds of my keyboard? Thanks!

CodeSmart

#14
Quote from: nolo68 on July 12, 2014, 10:23:13 PM
I am  new to the stuff, so maybe this might sound like a stupid question for you. Can I connect the boss gp 10 via USB to my yamaha p95 keyboard and use the sounds of my keyboard? Thanks!

No you can't. The P95 has 5-pin MIDI. The GP-10 has a USB MIDI that can only be connected to computer running Roland's GP-10 specific driver software (I.e the GP-10 USB is not "class compliant").
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

CodeSmart

#15
The answer I just gave leads to another question. If I have a mini PC ( I'm looking at a Zotac ZBox Nano $280USD) Put Win7 or Win 8 on it and install Roland's magic GP-10 drivers and connect one USB port to the GP-10 and a connect a cheap USB to 5-pin MIDI converter to another USB port,
would it then be possible to use the mini PC as a converter/relay to do MIDI communication between a GR-55 and a GP-10 or as nolo68 asked, connect a keyboard etc to a GP-10???
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

maan108

#16
Quote from: CodeSmart on July 13, 2014, 07:19:36 AM
The answer I just gave leads to another question. If I have a mini PC ( I'm looking at a Zotac ZBox Nano $280USD) Put Win7 or Win 8 on it and install Roland's magic GP-10 drivers and connect one USB port to the GP-10 and a connect a cheap USB to 5-pin MIDI converter to another USB port,
would it then be possible to use the mini PC as a converter/relay to do MIDI communication between a GR-55 and a GP-10 or as nolo68 asked, connect a keyboard etc to a GP-10???

Hi !
I'm interested to GP-10  std Midi capability drive too.

My question:
In case of routing GP10->USB>PC-driver>Daw midi-out>Hw-synt  or DAW>usb out> midi converter >Hw-synt, didn't you have an high latency ?

I should like, if were possible, to route the best midi tracking from GP-10 to my old GR-33 midi input without pass through  PC.
My dream is a cheap box to do this !
Last: If I have well understand your question , is not possible drive midi note into GR55. It don't accept it like GR33
Thanks!


supernicd

#17
You might take a look at the iConnectivity iConnectMIDI4+.  It's relatively inexpensive and is designed to replicate MIDI streams with very low latency.  Whether or not it would work in this particular situation I don't know, but might be worth investigation.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#18
QuoteI am  new to the stuff, so maybe this might sound like a stupid question for you. Can I connect the boss gp 10 via USB to my yamaha p95 keyboard and use the sounds of my keyboard? Thanks!

That's Not going to work.


QuoteYou might take a look at the iConnectivity iConnectMIDI2+.  It's relatively inexpensive and is designed to replicate MIDI streams with very low latency.  Whether or not it would work in this particular situation I don't know, but might be worth investigation.

Sorry to beat an old horse, but since the Boss GP-10 is NOT USB CLASS COMPLIANT  it will always require a PC running Windows or a Mac running OSX to provide a path for the Boss GP-10's USB software driver to enable Guitar to MIDI over USB to function. Many Daws can reroute MIDI data from Boss GP10 to a separate 5 pin MIDI I/O interface, or separate USB Keyboard /Tone module.

So forget about using Kenton USB Host to MIDI or any of the iConnetivity units, or an IPad running MIDIBridge to act as interface between Boss GP-10's USB port and a 5 pin MIDI I/O cable.

But read link below to learn how a Raspberry Pi can be employed to add the missing MIDI I/O to your Boss GP-10

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0


EDIT: Luckily we crowd sourced our own work-arounds to overcome the factory limitations.

Read

Boss GP-10 - How to implement 5 pin MIDI I/O with Raspberry Pi
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0


Boss GP-10 MIDI I/O on Android 4.4.4
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11854.msg85813#msg85813


Elantric

#19
QuoteStarted by SLICK - Last post by CodeSmart
The answer I just gave leads to another question. If I have a mini PC ( I'm looking at a Zotac ZBox Nano $280USD) Put Win7 or Win 8 on it and install Roland's magic GP-10 drivers and connect one USB port to the GP-10 and a connect a cheap USB to 5-pin MIDI converter to another USB port,
would it then be possible to use the mini PC as a converter/relay to do MIDI communication between a GR-55 and a GP-10 or as nolo68 asked, connect a keyboard etc to a GP-10???

Correct , that approach should work. (and just a simple midi routing software, like Midi-Yoke/Midi-Ox plus)

Il be sorting out my options for GP-10 MIDI I/O which include a 2008 HP 10" netbook running WinXP, or 2010 Dell convertible touchscreen 10" net book running Win7,  or 2008 MacBook Pro, or 2011 MacMini, or 2012 MacBook Retina.


EDIT: Luckily we crowd sourced our own work-arounds to overcome the factory limitations.

Read

Boss GP-10 - How to implement 5 pin MIDI I/O with Raspberry Pi
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11998.0


Boss GP-10 MIDI I/O on Android 4.4.4
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11854.msg85813#msg85813

gumtown

#20
Quote from: CodeSmart on July 13, 2014, 07:19:36 AM
The answer I just gave leads to another question. If I have a mini PC ( I'm looking at a Zotac ZBox Nano $280USD) Put Win7 or Win 8 on it and install Roland's magic GP-10 drivers and connect one USB port to the GP-10 and a connect a cheap USB to 5-pin MIDI converter to another USB port,
would it then be possible to use the mini PC as a converter/relay to do MIDI communication between a GR-55 and a GP-10 or as nolo68 asked, connect a keyboard etc to a GP-10???
Mini PC/Mac or laptop, with the GP-10 divers, and just a simple midi routing software, like Midi-Yoke/Midi-Ox plus a USB-Midi adapter will allow external midi control.
Although if you do go that path, why bother with the stand alone keyboard, and instead use soft synths integrated in the same box.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

CodeSmart

#21
Quote from: gumtown on July 13, 2014, 01:17:32 PM
Mini PC/Mac or laptop, with the GP-10 divers, and just a simple midi routing software, like Midi-Yoke/Midi-Ox plus a USB-Midi adapter will allow external midi control.
Although if you do go that path, why bother with the stand alone keyboard, and instead use soft synths instead.

Agree I don't want to go that path. It was a hypothetical/technical question. Thanks.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

supernicd

#22
Quote from: Elantric on July 13, 2014, 11:12:46 AM
Sorry to beat an old horse, but since the Boss GP-10 is NOT USB CLASS COMPLIANT  it will always require a PC running Windows or a Mac running OSX to provide a path for the Boss GP-10's USB software driver to enable Guitar to MIDI over USB to function. Many Daws can reroute MIDI data from Boss GP10 to a separate 5 pin MIDI I/O interface, or separate USB Keyboard /Tone module.

So forget about using Kenton USB Host to MIDI or any of the iConnetivity units, or an IPad running MIDIBridge to act as interface between Boss GP-10's USB port and a 5 pin MIDI I/O cable.

Indeed.  I was thinking the question was about running it through a PC, and what to do if the latency was too high.  But you're correct, the direct connection won't work due to missing drivers.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

montyrivers

#23
Color me ignorant, but would it be possible to make a small Arduino device that plugs into the GP10 that acts as a stand in thru device for the audio midi drivers?  It would probably require reverse engineering a lot of code but if it's possible and somebody here made it I would buy one!

gumtown

#24
Quote from: montyrivers on July 13, 2014, 06:09:29 PM
Color me ignorant, but would it be possible to make a small Arduino device that plugs into the GP10 that acts as a stand in thru device for the audio midi drivers?  It would probably require reverse engineering a lot of code but if it's possible and somebody here made it I would buy one!
It wouldn't be worth the time (1000's hours) or the effort (manufacturing, marketing, compliance costs) just to sell a handful of them to a niche market.
The end price would also be that of a new low end i3 laptop that would do the same job + more.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/