Meeting with Roland product demonstrator

Started by Elantric, September 01, 2012, 12:09:35 PM

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Elantric

I'm planning to hook up with Gundy Keller next week here in California. I'll provide him copies of our VG-99  and GR-55 Bug reports and Wish Lists, and talk about gear.

Place your request or question for Gundy as reply below.

--
Gundy Keller in action in his studio with VG-99 here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2972.msg17974#msg17974

 

Kevin M

My question:  what is your personal feeling on the future of Roland's commitment to high-end guitar modeling products such as the VG-99?  Do you think we might see the next iteration of the VG-99, or is this the last of its kind?

shawnb

In a way, I can handle all the bugs.  I'll find workarounds.  I'll learn the quirks.   

My biggest gripe with Roland in general is how they are making products 'closed' vs 'open'.  I understand limiting a feature set to nail a price point.  But I do not understand the gaps where it feels like they've gone out of their way to limit things:
  -  GR-55 not available as a sound module
  -  RC300 can't follow tempo unless it's from another RC300 (requires sysex!!!)

This appears to be the beginnings of a trend away from more 'open' modules that can be mixed & matched, & towards vendor-specific configurations. 

If you're going to honor MIDI, well, honor MIDI!!!
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

gumtown

Quote from: kmaus10 on September 01, 2012, 12:21:13 PM
My question:  what is your personal feeling on the future of Roland's commitment to high-end guitar modeling products such as the VG-99?  Do you think we might see the next iteration of the VG-99, or is this the last of its kind?

My opinion is Roland are going to follow the direction of historic mass sales, and the next VG incarnation will most likely be a floor unit much like a super charged GR-55, with an iPad desktop interface with controls for the stupid much like a childs game.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

PD FX

Ah, contact with an insider!
I have two questions involving the GR55/VG99 that might be interesting:
- Can Roland provide a "Classic GR" switch, that disables the midiconversion speed boost? I will use my old GR-30 untill they fix that! The speedbooster creates errors, it is fair to give users the choice between speed and accuracy.
- When will Roland finally embrace IR (impulse Response)? The acoustic modelling that Roland uses is COSM, COSM is nice, but for accurate acoustic sound you need to add IR! For instance: The line6 Variax uses it, and the Fishman Aura. Why does Roland not include IR?

Would be nice to get some feedback on this questions, but if there are to many questions I can live with no answer... ")




Elantric

QuoteFor instance: The line6 Variax uses it, and the Fishman Aura. Why does Roland not include IR?

IMHO - IR is pointless, until they open it up and have a path for end users to modify and upload their own IR  impulse files.

djidoe

I think future is up dateable gear. It would be nice if my 5 years old VG-99 could have been updated the way the AXE-FX II is. The AXE-FX II is being regularly updated with new features etc... My VG-99 has never been updated... :(

In the future I will be more focused on a unit that could be updated.

Is this the way ROLAND will take ?

DjiDoe

Mrchevy

I want to know if he gets more chicks with a VG99 or the GR55 ;D
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

Now_And_Then


It would be good to find out, directly from Roland, why they think that I should buy gear from Roland when their attitude towards customers and after-sale support seems to be best described by the phrase "Take the money and run".

jburns

well wouldn't their product specialists know as much (or less than) as us ? they are not on the marketing/sales end. i would rather ask elantric or gum town something rather than anyone at roland. these guys just demo the stuff thats already out. how much insider info do they actually have? on the other hand requests can be quite beneficial pointing towards the company directly. mb I've got it wrong, but thats what i believe so ill direct some goals under those circumstances.

if there is one thing that can benefit both users and roland its a sales concept they seem to have forgotten. any car dealer or insurance salesman can tell you the technique of driving larger sales with add ons /options. it is clear that roland will pursue gk/vg/gr lines based on the products they have been currently dropping. it is also clear that the stage when new products will be released, the features will consist of almost all of what the last gen had. this can be proven by diving into what their items consist of and at what rate. its also tried and true that they will not bear "complaints or unhappiness" due to the lack of interest of products already released. with all that in mind i would suggest interest into addons for what they already have out. this will both drive sales and be useful to us.
food for thought:
- a smaller version of the fc300, with less pedals. (this will drive sales for those who do not want to spend as       much on the fc300 or have that big of a floorboard in use)
-a rack unit of the fc300 with some assignable buttons, d beam, larger ribbon. mb even a joystick controller for those of us controlling synths. in sysex, I'm sure this could be useful to many gr55 owners for better control
- gk selectors for mutlitple gk guitars and/or multiple gk outputs and various in/out interfaces that incorporate gk's
- amps designed specifically for cosm full range vg and gr.'s
- mb even some software or module specifically for the vg or gr with better synths

I'm just brainstorming, but considering alot of ppl would buy this stuff, it may be a better point to focus on.


jburns

Quote from: Mrchevy on September 01, 2012, 05:26:20 PM
I want to know if he gets more chicks with a VG99 or the GR55 ;D

yes, because silk shirts and mullets go over well with women...
anyway, in my experience my friends like playing with the 99's beam and ribbon. so that would be the answer. altho i can't say, no matter how drunk, its ever been too impressive. a refilled shot glass works alot better lol.

aliensporebomb

Gundy might be photogenic but he's actually a great player - he's not just a pretty face and he actually runs a VG/GR consulting business in Germany for people who want to get the handle on how this stuff works.

In all actuality he's likely not going to be privy on any secret projects going on the Roland Labs, he's just informed of things prior to it shipping so he can
demonstrate it. 

He may be beta testing things prior to shipment but I doubt he's in the actual engineering side of things when the product is being concieved.

In the case of the 99 I heard it was designed here, then the design spec was sent to Japan and they built it and then it was a sort of a case of "take this
out, no keep this in, okay good it's ready to ship." 

Questions for Gundy:

(1) does he have any new VG-99 discoveries, patches or programming tips he wants to share with us?
(2) does he have any escalation path to notify Roland of any bugs he discovers with the 99/55 units in his capacity as demonstrator?
(3) are there any projects he is planning on releasing in the near term that features the VG/GR technologies?
(4) when he works with X-Ray Simon who runs a Koyabu board with a VG99/VB99/GI-20/etc how does his own VG/GR technologies fit into that project?
(5) if you have time you should check out the vguitarforums as there are a lot of patches to check out and good advice to get - you should check it out!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

mos6507

This whole meeting with a rep thing has happened before and didn't come to much.

There is still firmware upgrade potential in the VG-99 but they won't put the time or money into it.

Michael Dolan Doubleneck
Les Paul Custom

VG-99
FTP

vanceg

Quote from: mos6507 on September 04, 2012, 10:47:44 AM
This whole meeting with a rep thing has happened before and didn't come to much.

There is still firmware upgrade potential in the VG-99 but they won't put the time or money into it.

It didn't come to much in terms of getting Roland to RESPOND and do what WE want them to do... true that.  But perhaps he can shed some light on use of VG/GR products and perhaps even help with some bug workarounds.

gumtown

The only people from Roland who would have any inside info would be those from Japan, I am certain that those from any other country are only distribution outlets with almost no inside knowledge of any current product except what has been figured out from the obvious and what has been translated (or lost in translation by an accountant orientated translator).
Neither would they have the slightest on any future releases until the product arrived on the doorstep, only with a spec sheet and an expectation that the U.S. distributor is to market this in their own way, here is the product, you sell it.
They make a lot of products at Roland/Boss, and many only have a limited production run, so unless there is a major fault which can be fixed with a firmware update, I suspect no-one in Japan is interested in re-visting old product lines with refinements.
The product reps and demonstrators may be pressured into giving the impression that they have answers for your questions, but they probably know as much as you.

Those are only my oppinions, I could be wrong, but that is the way I see it.  :)
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

QuoteThe only people from Roland who would have any inside info would be those from Japan, I am certain that those from any other country are only distribution outlets with almost no inside knowledge of any current product except what has been figured out from the obvious and what has been translated (or lost in translation by an accountant orientated translator).
Neither would they have the slightest on any future releases until the product arrived on the doorstep, only with a spec sheet and an expectation that the U.S. distributor is to market this in their own way, here is the product, you sell it.
They make a lot of products at Roland/Boss, and many only have a limited production run, so unless there is a major fault which can be fixed with a firmware update, I suspect no-one in Japan is interested in re-visting old product lines with refinements.
The product reps and demonstrators may be pressured into giving the impression that they have answers for your questions, but they probably know as much as you.

Gumtown - your opinion 100% matches my own experience in these matters

tekrytor

Probably the only way something from Roland would get a serious "facelift" (new features added) is if a third party does it. But with such complex products as the VG-99 and GR-55, it's highly unlikely - especially considering the sophisticated changes typically suggested.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

cynegetic

Why not just invite him to a q&a thread on the board here?

aliensporebomb

Well that was my step 5 of questions: I think he'd be a huge asset to the VG world just to have him here. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

tekrytor

That would be nice it they accepted. It cannot hurt to try.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

Now_And_Then

Quote from: vanceg on September 04, 2012, 01:14:31 PM
IBut perhaps he can shed some light on use of VG/GR products and perhaps even help with some bug workarounds.

It is a near-certainty that the combined knowledge, gained from experience of using these devices in the field, in nearly every imaginable situation for nearly every imaginable purpose, that has been accumulated by the users of this forum, far surpasses nearly anything available to Roland itself - the only possible exceptions being the engineers who actually designed the devices. And it appears that those people do not talk to mere users - and not simply because of any possible language barrier.

It would be very surprising to me if anyone other than those engineers would know anything that we don't.

aliensporebomb

Consider again that Japanese society is compartmented and you usually don't socialize or talk with people outside of your area.  My understanding is it's somewhat a breach of etiquette - a famous cliche of Japanese anime is the boisterous and lively (read LOUD) american exchange student assigned to one class who bursts into the classroom of another to talk to someone outside of their area (usually a girl trying to talk to a guy) and it's just seen as so controversial!  Those lively americans!

It starts in primary school and goes on past college into the companies people get hired.  The engineers socialize with the engineers, the bean counters associated with the bean counters and any overlap is very carefully controlled in a panel discussion type situation.

So yeah, even if the engineers behind the VG were bilungual and found this board they'd have to be really careful about what they said.  If they said the wrong thing the next thing you know they could be demoted to working on the Roland V-Tuba project.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

MKB

If you look at the history of most Roland equipment, you are lucky if you get one or two software upgrades.  They seem to rarely change software but instead incorporate new features into new products (all the money must be in the hardware).  Roland rarely seems to sell software upgrades with new features; the only products of theirs I can think of where this happens is a few of the VS workstations, and even there they gave away the software after enough time elapsed.

In contrast, companies like Line 6 will make a product platform and continually add features and improvements through a constant stream of software upgrades.  They also sell upgrades to give more amp and effect models.

I would guess we now have all we are going to get out of the GR-55 and VG gear; any new features will most likely be added in new future products.  I do not expect any more upgrades for the GR-55 at least.

Now_And_Then

Quote from: MKB on September 07, 2012, 01:27:58 PM
If you look at the history of most Roland equipment, you are lucky if you get one or two software upgrades.  They seem to rarely change software but instead incorporate new features into new products (all the money must be in the hardware).  Roland rarely seems to sell software upgrades with new features; the only products of theirs I can think of where this happens is a few of the VS workstations, and even there they gave away the software after enough time elapsed.

In contrast, companies like Line 6 will make a product platform and continually add features and improvements through a constant stream of software upgrades.  They also sell upgrades to give more amp and effect models.

I would guess we now have all we are going to get out of the GR-55 and VG gear; any new features will most likely be added in new future products.  I do not expect any more upgrades for the GR-55 at least.

I am sure that nearly everyone here agrees with you on all points, the only difference being that although people seem more or less resigned, or have a fatalistic attitude, some harbor a certain amount of resentment about it.

kenact

Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
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Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
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