Fishman Triple play Pitch Bend with IPAD

Started by utensil, April 19, 2013, 03:05:50 AM

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utensil

Hi I'm a little confused as the information is sort of being relayed in various places in mixed forms but so far what I've read is:

in Hardware mode , the triple play defaults to sending all strings on one channel and is chromatic
in Hardware mode (hold down up on D-Pad on powering up) , the triple play defaults to sending each string on individual channels...AND Pitchbend is Sent

I am using the midi monitor app and checked on my mac (without FTP software) and confirmed I am not getting any Pitchbend messages. Each string is send on a separate channel and when in this mode It still works in by sending another note on off when the bend gets to the next pitch. Anyone else have the same behaviour. Elantric, when you use it with the ipad are you able to get the pitchbend working?

Thanks for any help.

utensil

Ok So not sure if this is because I have a new firmware or what but in the hardware mode ( powering with up button pressed) , It defaults to chromatic (i.e no pitchbends sent) but if I press the left d-pad (the one closest to the volume knob) button it toggles to then start sending pitchbend messages . It can be toggled back an forth. I confirmed this by using midi monitor.

This is actually better than before cause now in hardware one can choose either but I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere so thought I'd post it. Anyone else have this behavior or is it in the new firmware only?

shawnb

#2
Utensil -

I'm pretty sure I'm up to date as well - it upgraded firmware when I first installed FTP.

In hardware mode (power up with dpad up button pressed), my FTP works in 6-channel mode with pitch bend upon powerup.   It does not require any further pressing of the buttons to toggle modes.   Upon powerup in HW mode, it always sends a long midi stream.  This stream sometimes stops by itself, and sometimes it ceases once a note is sent. 

I have observed this behavior within MIDIOX. 

While in hardware mode, without the ftp app running, pressing the other dpad buttons do some crazy things.  These appear to be debugging tools. 

In general, since I don't know what they're doing, and because they can send A LOT of MIDI data, I would recommend NOT using the dpad keys, while in hardware mode, when the ftp software is not running. 

Note that behavior is different whether or not the ftp app is running. 

Let me know if you see the same on your end!

Shawn
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

utensil

Hey Shawn

Just to clarify my version info from the Triple play software:

Software version: 1.0.2402
Receiver version: 1.72
Controller version: 1.90

Any no doubts about it, I've tried on two macs and ipad.  If I power up without anything pressed (and no fishman software running i.e basic hardware mode). All string data is sent on one channel. If I power up with the up button pressed Each string is on it's own channel but it remains in chromatic mode (i.e not pitchwheel data is sent). If I bend a string it generates a note on, off message triggering the next note up.

When in this mode where each string is sending data on a separate channel, if I press the left D pad button, from that point on the pitch wheel data is sent and It registers bends and stops retriggering bent notes. Pressing again toggles it back to trigger chromatic mode.

The other buttons as you mention send a bunch of data which makes no sense to me and as you say is probably for diagnostics.

Can you check if the left D pad button toggles to chromatic mode for you?


shawnb

That's what I was trying to say above - I do not see that same behavior.

I don't doubt it though...  For SnGs I tried pressing & toggling & double-pressing the other d-pad keys while in HW mode, and the behavior changed quite dramatically.  I couldn't get pedal bends at all for a minute or so.  So I think the dpad buttons change the behavior somehow. 

At the moment, for my FTP (in HW mode, with no ftp app running), the left d-pad toggles between 6-channel with pedal bends, and some crazy ceaseless string of MIDI data, that includes some pedal bends but is NOT performance data.  It didn't do that earlier...  So we're playing with some controls and we don't know what they do yet.  So, once it works, I'd just run with it! 

Yes, we're on the same version #s. 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

utensil

Wow weird. It could be a hardware update but I'm more inclined to think it's software based but since we are on same versions it's odd there's different behavior. Nor do I think its defective as I can produce it very reliably and it's actually a sensible feature. I'm glad its there so I can start it up in hardware mode and easily without powering down and back up can switch between chromatic and bending (which from what I understand you can't do with your unit where you have to turn it off and on to move between chromatic and pitchbend).

When I press the left D pad I get a string of what looks like a crap load of nonsense data (not an endless stream) and then the mode has toggled from that point. All the other buttons send almost the same nonsense data but don't toggle the behavior.

My FTP was just purchased from Sweetwater about 5 days ago and I've got another on the way from the group buy which should get to me in a week or so I can compare.




Elantric

#6
All interesting info and will require more details.

Perhaps Andras Szalay may see this and provide a followup to clear up what is currently going on the FTP Controller powerup modes.
My 2nd FTP should be here next week (Lucky me I get to keep the beta test version, but trust me - after the hours of helping Fishman debug this great product back in March 2013  - I earned it!


utensil

Hey So I noticed some more wierdness which wasn't apparent to me before.

If I power up with "up" pressed, no pitchbends (only chromatic trigger) as mentioned, if I then press left D-pad, I get pitchbend but what I didn't notice is all the notes are a semitone lower than what I am playing. If I then push the "up" button again, it's at the correct pitch and I get pitchbend. From here the left D-pad toggles between pitchbend and chromatic modes.

I didn't notice the half step lower notes cause I was only using it with midi monitor where as today I was actually playing around with the sounds and it became immediately apparent. Unfortunately even when I get the pitchbend working  via this sequence of button presses, the string sensitives seem to be ignored and some string become too sensitive sending almost all notes at a velocity of 127.

The sensitivities are fine when I toggle back to chromatic hardware mode.


All this leads me to now believe that my Triple play is not acting as intended and there is some issue with it. I don't have a workable way of getting pitch bend in hardware mode, this means I can't really use the ipad for many things.

I would like to ideally re-flash it if there is such a thing but I don't know if this is even possible. I've tried to email Fishman via their site so let see what they advise.

Elantric

#8
Quote
All this leads me to now believe that my Triple play is not acting as intended and there is some issue with it. I don't have a workable way of getting pitch bend in hardware mode, this means I can't really use the ipad for many things.

I would like to ideally re-flash it if there is such a thing but I don't know if this is even possible.


I would not worry.

Ive seen 3 or 4 different firmware for the FTP Controller since March 2013

Yes everything has flash memory and gets updated via the FTP Gui Control Panel - Click "Check for Updates"

BTW - this is what is current today



There will be future firmware updates to address problems and provide better iPad integration.

Its like this - the Tripleplay Play team worked frantically to meet the April ship deadline , and the refinement work continues as we speak.
All these magic key sequences on Power Up are Not documented nor mentioned by Fishman yet, because these remain a work in progress.
If its mentioned in the FTP Manuals or User Guides, its been tested and works,
Bulk of what we talk about in the thread, with pressing different buttons in "Hardware mode" (no FTP GUI Connected) have known bugs and are still being worked on.

When they get this working, Fishman will roll out new firmware and new User guides
Unlike Roland,the Fishman TriplePlay is NOT "what you see is what you get"  - instead we possess a platform that will be continually expanded.

I suspect Andras Szalay has not responded yet because he does not talk about future features and work in progress.

polaris20

Quote from: Elantric on April 20, 2013, 07:16:26 AM

I would not worry.

Ive seen 3 or 4 different firmware for the FTP Controller since March 2013

Yes everything has flash memory and gets updated via the FTP Gui Control Panel - Click "Check for Updates"

BTW - this is what is current today



There will be future firmware updates to address problems and provide better iPad integration.

Its like this - the Tripleplay Play team worked frantically to meet the April ship deadline , and the refinement work continues as we speak.
All these magic key sequences on Power Up are Not documented nor mentioned by Fishman yet, because these remain a work in progress.
If its mentioned in the FTP Manuals or User Guides, its been tested and works,
Bulk of what we talk about in the thread, with pressing different buttons in "Hardware mode" (no FTP GUI Connected) have known bugs and are still being worked on.

When they get this working, Fishman will roll out new firmware and new User guides
Unlike Roland,the Fishman TriplePlay is NOT "what you see is what you get"  - instead we possess a platform that will be continually expanded.

I suspect Andras Szalay has not responded yet because he does not talk about future features and work in progress.

Better iPad integration? Looking forward to seeing what that is, since its already pretty awesome.

It's a damn shame the iPhone 5 doesn't work with the CCK. it would make a fine tiny synth module. Looking forward to seeing if Apple integrates a retina display and a derivative of the far faster A6 processor into the Mini.

shawnb

Quote from: utensil on April 20, 2013, 06:54:55 AM
All this leads me to now believe that my Triple play is not acting as intended and there is some issue with it. I don't have a workable way of getting pitch bend in hardware mode, this means I can't really use the ipad for many things.

I don't think that's the case at all.  That d-pad is navigating some other menu system and we don't know what it does...   You've gotten some results (alt tuning) that actually appear to be very nice!   I hope we learn what those other functions do in the future. 

(I actually suspect it's the EXACT SAME menu you see when in the FTP app...  And you adjusted your TUNE BASE parameter...   One time after putzing with this I found one of my string sensitivities changed.  These are parameters under the d-pad menu.  I now suspect all those wierd MIDI messages are attempts to communicate with the FTP app, even when in HW mode.   So do the exact same activities with the FTP app up & tell me what you see...)

In the meanwhile - If you can get HW mode to work at all - even it it takes one additional keypress than you thought - consider it victory!    Play your guitar!!!

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

utensil

#11
Quote from: shawnb on April 20, 2013, 09:16:10 AM

In the meanwhile - If you can get HW mode to work at all - even it it takes one additional keypress than you thought - consider it victory!    Play your guitar!!!

Yes you are of course both absolutely correct. In my complaint above I failed to mention that besides my guitar I would gladly ditch all my other equipment to keep the triple play. Even if I could only use it with a laptop it's astoundingly better than the GR-55 tracking and the Axon and the Sonuus I2M (I have all of them) as well as the Midi Guitar software. Within 30 minutes of trying it I ordered a second.

I can actually play drum lines with this thing and I almost forget that I'm playing synths, it feels like it's the sound of the instrument itself it's so responsive.

Elantric

#12
QuoteYes you are of course both absolutely correct. In my complaint above I failed to mention that besides my guitar I would gladly ditch all my other equipment to keep the triple play. Even if I could only use it with a laptop it's astoundingly better than the GR-55 tracking and the Axon and the Sonuus I2M (I have all of them) as well as the Midi Guitar software. Within 30 minutes of trying it I ordered a second.

I can actually play drum lines with this thing and I almost forget that I'm playing synths, it feels like it's the sound of the instrument itself it's so responsive.



I now understand completely why it took years to bring all the right people on board to make this happen.

Larry Fishman assembled the right team for the task, and thankfully Andy Lewis, Andras Szalay, Costas (from GTAK) , and the whole Fishman Team were available at this moment in time and all could focus to make this TriplePlay dream arrive.

Its truly crazy time to think I could actually gig where my entire rig is :

Apple iPad Mini 32GB
Apple USB Camera Adapter
Powered USB Hub
Sonuus I2M (for Guitar Audio Input + one mono MIDI channel)
Fishman Triple Play
KMI Softsep
Freedom One Wireless Digital Audio + Tuner

+ Powered speaker of choice

Use Jamup Pro XT + lots of other synths.

and have fast low latency operation.
And completely Wireless!

The hardware is here today - just need TIME and someone wise enough to figure all this out.
After many dead ends in this pursuit of dream guitar rig for the working musician ,
I barely have just enough brain cells (and Cash$$) left!   

The Future is bright for MIDI Guitarists and several doors are finally opening up in 2013 !

polaris20

Quote from: Elantric on April 20, 2013, 12:46:24 PM


I now understand completely why it took years to bring all the right people on board to make this happen.

Larry Fishman assembled the right team for the task, and thankfully Andy Lewis, Andras Szalay, Costas (from GTAK) , and the whole Fishman Team were available at this moment in time and all could focus to make this TriplePlay dream arrive.

Its truly crazy time to think I could actually gig where my entire rig is :

Apple iPad Mini 32GB
Apple USB Camera Adapter
Powered USB Hub
Sonuus I2M (for Guitar Audio Input + one mono MIDI channel)
Fishman Triple Play
KMI Softsep
Freedom One Wireless Digital Audio + Tuner

+ Powered speaker of choice

Use Jamup Pro XT + lots of other synths.

and have fast low latency operation.
And completely Wireless!

The hardware is here today - just need TIME and someone wise enough to figure all this out.
After many dead ends in this pursuit of dream guitar rig for the working musician ,
I barely have just enough brain cells (and Cash$$) left!   

The Future is bright for MIDI Guitarists and several doors are finally opening up in 2013 !

I'm wondering if IK's Bluetooth foot pedal will work with more than just Amplitube. Would be nice.

Elantric

#14
QuoteI'm wondering if IK's Bluetooth foot pedal will work with more than just Amplitube. Would be nice.

Some important clarification here on Bluetooth MIDI
http://www.iosmusician.com/category/bluetooth
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8395.msg60033;topicseen#msg60033