FTP tuning problem

Started by thebrushwithin, April 21, 2013, 09:27:34 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

thebrushwithin

Well, this didn't happen yesterday, but today when I fired up my FTP, the tuner shows me in tune, and I double checked it on another tuner, however, every soft synth, by any manufacturer, is almost 2 steps higher than the guitar, and transposing the difference is off by enough to be quite ugly to hear. My presets did appear for the first time however. Has anyone else had this tuning issue?

Elantric

#1
Be sure that upon FTP power up, and FTP GUI Control Panel launch you are NOT touching (or fretting) any strings, nor touching any controls on the FTP controller, specifically the 4 D Pad switches while sliding the FTP Controller's Power switch on.

thebrushwithin

Yes, and still it persists, even in Live8, with the FTP as the source. I put in a service ticket with Fishman, just a few minutes ago. I've never had such an issue with any soft synth...very strange!

Elantric

#3
Close all apps, launch TriplePlay Application, verify you pass the system check and make a good connection, from a pulldown menu click the "Check for Updates", and be sure it reports the current firmware, as seen here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8382.msg60006#msg60006

thebrushwithin

Yes, I think I've tried everything I can think of, and it says I am up to date. Strange, but yesterday this was not a problem, and all I did was shut it down, and fire it back up today. Bugs???

shawnb


I'm still figuring all the ins & outs myself, but I think you went in & somehow adjusted your TUNING BASE parameter. 

Pull up the FTP app...   Press the left d-pad key to pull up the menu.  Navigate to Global Parameters & hit the right dpad key.  Navigate to Tune Base and hit the right dpad key.    Change this value & see if it makes a difference.   

(Note I'm using left & right from the perspective of looking down on the ftp controller...  If the above doesn't work for you, substitute right for left & vice versa!!! ;D)
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

thebrushwithin

Yeah, Shawn I did that...thanks...I can get close by changing the patch up 2 steps, but it is still quite wrong. The tuning base is at 0, where it will go + or -. Strange stuff! I hope Fishman has an answer tomorrow, cause if this thing is too buggy, and no fixes in sight, I may return it!

thebrushwithin

Here is an update from Fishman:

Hi Mark,

Try returning the tripleplay controller to defaults.  Unplug the receiver and turn off the controller.  While holding the D-Pad button forward (towards the headstock), turn the device on.  Then, turn it off for two seconds and turn it back on again.

Then, turn it off again.  While holding the D-Pad button backward (towards the strap button at the tail), turn the device on again.  Then, turn it off for two seconds and turn it back on again. 

Please let me know if the issue comes back, goes away, or this has no effect.  The fact that the issue is occurring with our without the TP software makes me think the issue is with the hardware.

Best,
Frank P
Fishman Support.

So, I tried it and still have the problem. I am waiting for their next reply.

thebrushwithin

Worked with Frank at Fishman today, on a remote session. Frank was very nice, and tried everything he could including a firmware reset remotely, to no avail. He said this is the only occurrence of such a problem, thus far. Thinking it was hardware related, he called me back after our session, and asked me to try it on a different computer, that has soft synths on it. I did, on my iMac, and this time it was completely in tune, using the same patch on Omnisphere in Ableton Live 8! When I went back to my MacBook Pro, however, it is still out of tune. I reported this to him, via email, and now await his response. Strangeness indeed!

thebrushwithin

Well this is very frustrating, as Fishman support is "at a loss" as to what is causing this problem. At their direction, I installed the FTP software on my iMac, with none of the included software, to see if the instruments would be out of tune via the FTP software. After installing the software, the synths were perfectly in tune. Then, I went back to the laptop, trashed the FTP software, and reinstalled it directly from the website, and it is still very out of tune. I hope some solution is forthcoming. The only thing left is to uninstall everything, and reinstall. I have no clue as to why that might help, as even when I use the controller in Ableton, the same problem persists, even using Omnisphere. Are we missing another possibility?

shawnb

#10
I don't know Mac...  But to me, this sounds like the issue is with your Mac. 
I'd check ALL the MIDI properties throughout, including MIDI Pipe... 
And use any diagnostic utility you have to look at raw incoming data. 

I don't see any way it's with your VSTi's, I wouldn't de-install/re-install them.  (It would have to be something that would affect ALL VSTi's, not likely...)
It's definitely not your HW, or it wouldn't have worked on the other device. 

My thinking is that you're left down to something at the OS MIDI processing or in the FTP app.  Since you've deinstalled & reinstalled the app with no change, I'd start poking around the OS and OS utilities. 

(EDIT: There are a lot of threads out there by Mac Logic Pro users who have random transposition issues...  Few have solutions, though on guy said he cleared the corrupt 'chord database' and everything got better?  Do keyboards work OK thru the same port?  Do you have Logic Pro installed?   Another mac user had the issue go away when he disconnected a different MIDI input device...   I'd disconnect EVERYTHING, reboot, and try the FTP again...)
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

#11
We know that Without the FTP GUI Control Panel, the FTP Controller is open to apply different non documented modes,  depending on which of the 4 D-PAd buttons are being held down.

Be very careful you are NOT pressing any other buttons down on FTP Controller when powering up the FTP Controller.

Also on my FTP, when I boot up in Hardware mode ( connected to Ipad) - when I press and release the left or right arrow button down only some strings perform a transpose function or a pitch bend function, and I never can repeat the same process twice.
     

Also I have seen where the FTP Plastic case is assembled slightly mis-aligned, and this may cause one of the D-Pad switches to be accidentally "pressed down" by the plastic case.

For example, the FTP Controller's Charge LED is also momentary switch, (Pairing function) yet on mine, this was "stuck". 
Solved this by loosening the 5 screws on the bottom of the FTP Controller , then gently re-tighten, now all controls operate smoothly.

thebrushwithin

Thanks Shawn and Elantric, both ideas are worth investigating. Also, I am going to use the USB out from my VG99, which, in the past has been perfect, and see if it is still in tune. As well as a MOTU interface I have used before. One thing I found by fooling around, is the the base tune only changes the actual tuner, and not the frequency of the sounds, which I misunderstood. I thought it actually changed A=440, to another value.

thebrushwithin

Success!!!! First, I ran my soft synths, in the laptop using the USB out of the VG99, and all of the same instruments were in tune, so that eliminated what Shawn saw as a possibility. So then, before I hooked up the FTP, I took Elantric's idea that the D-pad buttons may be stuck, so, I started pressing them in an effort to loosen them up, and when I hooked it up, voila!!! It is now in tune with the guitar.
I cannot thank you guys enough, and I am thankful Elantric nailed it! I am going to quote your post, Elantric, to Fishman support, as I believe this is invaluable info. It actually worked!!! Thanks again!!!!!
Karma is more than a button....

Elantric

#14
Glad you fixed it!

Be sure to tell Fishman to have them re-check the FTP Controller Plastic Assembly in Production.

As I said, upon delivery, fresh right out of the box it was apparent my FTP Controller was assembled "misalligned" - since nothing worked!

A good test to check if your FTP Controller is proper, is this:

With the power off - test the large LED  / Pairing switch" - (should act as if its "spring loaded"!)
Check that this LED with its round frosted White semi transparent plastic housing can be easily pressed "in", and when let go, check that it returns back to its original position. If its frozen or stuck, loosen the bottom screws and re-align the Controller's plastic housing, and re-tighten the bottom screws. (not too tight!!)

The large RED LED on the far right is also a momentary switch that acts as the "Pairing Button".



Quote3. The LEDs on the controller and receiver are also buttons. Press the one on your receiver and the one on your controller (figure 2). The order doesn't matter, and you don't need to press the two buttons simultaneously. Note that the button on the controller does not click; the flashing of the light changes when you depress the button to indicate it is engaged.



On mine, I could have hit the large RED LED / Pairing Button with a hammer, yet nothing moved! - until I loosened the bottom 5 screws  - did a slight clockwise / counterclockwise twist of the top half of the FTP plastic housing. Retighten the bottom screws (not too tight)  = fixed.   


Flip the FTP Controller (the "slim GK-3 like" controller part that mounts on the guitar) upside down  - remove the screws then carefully retighten.

Both my FTP's came fresh out of the box "non-functional" - due to too tight tolerances used for the plastic housing and then assembled too tightly at the production fab house - with net result of intermittent / non-functional controls.

Loosening up the FTP Controller housing made it work.

thebrushwithin

Well, Fishman support has asked me to return my FTP controller, and they will send me a new one.
They want to see what is wrong with it, which is commendable, because it was their idea.
My problems continued when I switched to IOS. They know about the housing, but I do feel better
about it, since they wish to perfect their product.
Fishman support seems to be top notch, so don't hesitate to contact them, when problems arise.

Elantric

Keep us posted on your results with the new FTP Controller.

I agree - Fishman Customer support is the best!

fr0sty

This happened to me yesterday.  It only happened when I had two instances of ftp open in my daw (fl studio).  The triggers seemed to be one or two steps higher that what I was playing.  I haven't messed with the wrapper in fl to figure out if there is a setting I can tweak to adjust it.

I ended up opening the other patch in sampletank.  No problem then.

Elantric

#18
Another key issue to check, many reports of FTP Tuning instability can be traced to a stuck button on the FTP Controller dpad.

IMHO The plastic mold tooling for the FTP controller may have tolerances that are a bit too tight, and some production FTP Controllers arrive with stuck buttons and controls. In my case, fresh out of the box, most buttons and controls on my FTP Controller were non functional. They were all "stuck".
The solution for me  was a complete disassembly / reassembly of the Controller.

Check that all your Fishman Tripleplay Controller's  Four D-Pad Buttons, and side mounted Pairing button all operate and move freely with no restrictions. If any of the D-Pad momentary switch buttons get stuck in the plastic housing, many many problems will result. 

But most of these issues are best solved by contacting Fishman Support directly
http://www.fishman.com/support

thebrushwithin

Fishman support received my def controller yesterday, and will be doing an evaluation. Thankfully, they are sending me a replacement, with 0 hassles. Be sure and contact support, they are great to work with!
I am surprised they didn't make the center hub, in between the arrows, on the D controller, an active "enter" button, to clear up any confusion, as my first instinct was to try and press it. I never dreamed the led light could be pressed(really super stiff!), and I don't think that was a very good idea, given the tightness of all of the unit's function buttons. Still, I am happy to own one!!!

thebrushwithin

Well, I received my replacement controller a while ago, and so far, it will not send a midi signal. It was recognized in the FTP software, but nothing is receiving a midi signal. Everything I was utilizing before I sent back the original controller, is giving 0 sound. Doesn't work in Ableton either, although Ableton does recognize it as a source. I am giving it a recharge, and have sent a report to support, waiting for a reply!
If it doesn't generate sound after a full charge, I will be rather upset. This whole thing, honestly, should not be so problematic. Patience....for a bit longer. I think I'll go play some good 'ol 13 pin technology....call me a dinosaur!

Elantric

#21
QuoteWell, I received my replacement controller a while ago, and so far, it will not send a midi signal. It was recognized in the FTP software, but nothing is receiving a midi signal. Everything I was utilizing before I sent back the original controller, is giving 0 sound. Doesn't work in Ableton either, although Ableton does recognize it as a source. I am giving it a recharge, and have sent a report to support, waiting for a reply!
If it doesn't generate sound after a full charge, I will be rather upset. This whole thing, honestly, should not be so problematic. Patience....for a bit longer. I think I'll go play some good 'ol 13 pin technology....call me a dinosaur!

Thats very sad to hear.

If they sent a new FTP Controller only (no Receiver), you MUST perform the "Pairing" procedure to make your new FTP Controller talk to the FTP Receiver. 

Be sure you follow FTP Pairing Instructions in the FTP User Guide.

Also realize the FTP GUI Control Application on OSX/Win7 will report "Not Connected" if you omit setting the "Audio Input" hardware settings in the  FTP GUI Control Application.


I would let the new Controller charge at least 4 hours, then perform a factory reset of the FTP Controller.

If it still does not work, then do a force reload of the FTP Firmware.

All Details are here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8491.msg60761#msg60761

thebrushwithin

Strange but true...when I initially fired up the software, with the replacement controller, of course, several times I would check for updates, and it kept saying up to date. I left to run some errands, while the controller was charging. When I returned, it was fully charged, but still no sound. Then after a few minutes, suddenly I had a message open up, saying there was an update! Voila!!! It started working!!!
Oh, by the way, it was in tune on two Macs. So, I hope this is the end of this series of problems, so I can begin some enjoyment. The timing was very welcome for the update.
Software - 1.0.2402
Receiver - 1.72
Controller - 1.9

shawnb

The latest is .2412 - you got one more to go!
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

thebrushwithin

More to fix on Windows? Interesting!