FTP - Fishman Tripleplay Modes & Midi Implementation

Started by shawnb, February 16, 2015, 02:51:55 PM

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shawnb




All -

This document is in two sections.  The first section explains the different FTP modes & provides a detailed comparison chart of the different features in each mode.  This explains WHAT the FTP does.

The second section is a MIDI implementation chart, one that covers each of the different FTP modes.  There are important distinctions between them.  It explains HOW the FTP does what it does, & is more helpful if you're trying to do some advanced rig configuration or programming. 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=11197

This document supplements the FTP manual, which you should read first.   

For deeper explanations, my FTP Hardware Mode doc explains most of these features in greater detail, though it focuses on HW mode:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9625.0

Putting this document together, I did a lot of testing, and I learned that Basic mode is more powerful than I thought.  For example, with a MIDI controller, the sustain function works.  So does the standard MIDI command for switching between Mono & Poly mode (CC#126 & CC#127). 

I hope this helps you as you build & configure your rigs.

Feedback, including the inevitable corrections, welcome!


Updates:
02/17/15 - Corrected String/fret split info for HW mode
02/27/15 - Added performance information + channel info for sending CCs to the FTP




Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Vade

Thanks for taking the time to gather and share this Shawn. Much appreciated.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Spider

Good work Shawn! I have some question:

1. What is Song mode?
2. For me in HW mode split by fret/string is possible inside TP the same with fake split by touch i.e. different sound with pick and fingers.

shawnb

#3
Quote from: Spider on February 16, 2015, 11:13:16 PM
1. What is Song mode?

"Song Mode" is how it operates with the FTP App's Song window open:
  -  Once a song is selected, all patches are loaded in advance, thus you achieve instantaneous patch changes.   
  -  You can arrange patches in any order you want within each song.
  -  Your d-pad navigates between patches within a song - it no longer navigates all user patches. 
  -  To navigate between songs, you must use your mouse, which is a bit of a drag.   

Check out the manual, pg 28.

This doesn't get a lot of discussion here, there are a few brief mentions:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10647.msg77208#msg77208
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10647.msg77223#msg77223

Quote from: Spider on February 16, 2015, 11:13:16 PM
2. For me in HW mode split by fret/string is possible inside TP the same with fake split by touch i.e. different sound with pick and fingers.

Spider - please describe how you do this!   That would be helpful to know & share.

Thanks!
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Spider

ad. 2

You program your patch in FTP app. But instead of VST you use 4 programs from your hardware synthesizer + 1 for pedal. Then set strings/frets splits.

"Fake" by sensitivity triggered patch you can make using 1 and 3 Syths sounds. Both are full neck, all strings patches and normally will sound together.

But... when you set Dynamic sensitivity in opposite direction: In Synth 1 on for example full left, on Synth 3 you set full right, one can be triggered by pick the other by fingers (or light / strong touch). Of course all is in precise tweak this parameters for your playing style.


shawnb

#5
Quote from: Spider on February 17, 2015, 11:11:45 AM
You program your patch in FTP app. But instead of VST you use 4 programs from your hardware synthesizer + 1 for pedal. Then set strings/frets splits.

You are correct!   Only caveat is that where different settings apply (e.g., transpose), & regions overlap, regions 1 & 2 trump regions 3 & 4.   

So HW mode does in fact support both string & fret splits.  I'll need to update the doc. 

Quote from: Spider on February 17, 2015, 11:11:45 AM
"Fake" by sensitivity triggered patch you can make using 1 and 3 Syths sounds. Both are full neck, all strings patches and normally will sound together.

But... when you set Dynamic sensitivity in opposite direction: In Synth 1 on for example full left, on Synth 3 you set full right, one can be triggered by pick the other by fingers (or light / strong touch). Of course all is in precise tweak this parameters for your playing style.

What a great idea!   Similar to the GR-55's Nuance settings! 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

shawnb

New version uploaded...   A couple gaps were bugging me, namely performance info & midi INPUT channel.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric


shawnb

#8
Thanks!   

A lot of this is NOT written down anywhere, e.g., which channels are used for which purposes, Mono/Poly CCs, which feature is supported in which mode, and what is done during powerup.

It's a predictable pattern:  It starts off with me being terribly confused about something, so I experiment a bit & take notes.   Later, I find myself assuming folks know this stuff, but newbies don't.   So I write it down & publish.   Then Spider corrects me, & I fix it...  Happens every time.   (Thanks, Spider!)

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

musicamex

Thank you for the time and effort to compile and share this with us.  I hope i get my FTP doing enough to take advantage of this info.  I fear my laptop might not be up to the task despite it fitting Fishmans specs. 

MusicOverGear

I just found this - very cool and thank you.

I have been interested in switching Pitch Bend Mode from MainStage without running any of the Fishman software - may be superstition in 2015 but I still like to run the fewest possible things on a performance computer.

I wonder if the answer might be in your doc? I see that the different PB types are available in each mode but I don't grok how to change them with pure midi. E.g. suppose I'm changing from a Rhodes patch to a mono synth lead and I want to the FTP to flip over to Smooth mode - can I do that by sending a MIDI message? Or do I for sure have to use the Fishman software for that?

shawnb

#11
Quote from: MusicOverGear on April 22, 2015, 07:46:47 AM
I just found this - very cool and thank you.

I have been interested in switching Pitch Bend Mode from MainStage without running any of the Fishman software - may be superstition in 2015 but I still like to run the fewest possible things on a performance computer.

You're welcome!

If the FTP responded to PCs, yes, you could control PB types from Mainstage, but it doesn't...   You need to use your d-pad one way or another.   

In HW mode:  The only way I know to change the PB mode is to have different "Hardware Synth" patches with the different PB modes loaded onto the FTP controller.  Then select them using your D-pad. 

In Basic mode:  ENTER & BACK toggle between Trig & Auto. 

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

MusicOverGear

Cool that's what I figured. Got me excited there for a second. The aux keys gig I do most regularly I just leave it on trigger. For lead patches I just use the GP-10.

When I started with FTP I ran a MIDIPipe to the standalone software and did program changes that way. Never bit me but the look and feel of that software makes me very much not trust it. Looks like it was put together by an 8th grader...

andras.szalay

Quote from: shawnb on February 17, 2015, 01:25:03 PM
... where different settings apply (e.g., transpose), & regions overlap, regions 1 & 2 trump regions 3 & 4.   

If regions for 1-2 and 3-4 overlap, then guitar related parameters (e.g. Trigger Mode) are taken from 1-2, but MIDI related parameters (like Transpose) are preserved for both. So, e.g. you can set sounds 1 and 3 to the same distorted guitar with one of them transposed by 7 semitones, and play the fifth parallel solo of "Pictures of Home" alone (I believe Ritchie Blackmore required playback for that), or set up a 12 string guitar with transposing 12 semitones.

Andras Szalay

Elantric

Andras

Hope you are well!

Thanks for reviewing ShawnB's FTP Modes & Midi Implementation!

yuri

Thanks Andreas, your Contributions are always very pleasant here . Never neglect FTP it is my best buy in the past 20 years !

shawnb

#16
Quote from: andras.szalay on April 30, 2015, 12:53:57 PM
If regions for 1-2 and 3-4 overlap, then guitar related parameters (e.g. Trigger Mode) are taken from 1-2, but MIDI related parameters (like Transpose) are preserved for both. So, e.g. you can set sounds 1 and 3 to the same distorted guitar with one of them transposed by 7 semitones, and play the fifth parallel solo of "Pictures of Home" alone (I believe Ritchie Blackmore required playback for that), or set up a 12 string guitar with transposing 12 semitones.

Andras Szalay

Thanks for the clarification!
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Mrelectric

Hi,
This is really useful.
I'm trying to get my FTP to control a Roland GR1. It works okay on the multi-timbre modes but I'm more interested in the main Performance functionality which is usually driven from the GK2a.
I'm not sure what mapping I might need to force this in mono mode on 6 channels.  Turning Local On or Off doesn't seem to make any difference.
I have tried various MIDIOx functions without reliable results. In any case for live work I probably need something like a Bomebox to drive it  in real-time and without a PC.
Does anyone have any clues on what the problem might be and what the solution, if any, might be?

shawnb

Quote from: Mrelectric on February 24, 2020, 03:44:32 PMI'm not sure what mapping I might need to force this in mono mode on 6 channels.  Turning Local On or Off doesn't seem to make any difference.

There are two ways to get mono mode on the FTP.

The first is to create a HW patch that is in mono, and save it to the FTP.  To use, you must boot your FTP in HW mode by holding the UP key when powering up the unit.  Now the FTP honors your HW patches saved to the unit.  This is the technique I use pretty much all the time, as it has the greatest flexibility.  Note you can save a series of different HW patches with different settings & switch back & forth as needed.

The second is in "basic" mode - when powered up normally.  The FTP will respond to a CC#126/127 to switch between mono & poly.  But you need some device to send the CC to the FTP. 

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Mrelectric

Thanks, I have been focusing on using the HW mode with HW synth Patches.
I think the problem now is in understanding exactly what the GR1 needs, working that out with remapping, and then emulating that in some real-time hardware interface, such as the Bomebox.

shawnb

I have used a Disaster Area Ghost Converter to feed my FTP signal straight into a GR-30.  Perfomance was excellent. 

And since all patches on these Roland gr devices are already perfectly configured for mono mode, it's pretty easy to use.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

kevorkian

Quote from: shawnb on February 24, 2020, 04:04:59 PM
There are two ways to get mono mode on the FTP.

The first is to create a HW patch that is in mono, and save it to the FTP.  To use, you must boot your FTP in HW mode by holding the UP key when powering up the unit.  Now the FTP honors your HW patches saved to the unit.  This is the technique I use pretty much all the time, as it has the greatest flexibility.  Note you can save a series of different HW patches with different settings & switch back & forth as needed.

The second is in "basic" mode - when powered up normally.  The FTP will respond to a CC#126/127 to switch between mono & poly.  But you need some device to send the CC to the FTP.

Quick note - there is a 3rd way to enable mono mode and that is to use the FC-1 pedal to call up a HW patch that is in mono. When done this way you don't have to worry about holding down switches while booting the TriplePlay.

Mrelectric

Thanks both. I should've mentioned that I use the Kenton USB host mkII for the FTP receiver and routing MIDI out to the GR1.
However, it doesn't give any reconfiguration capability in the way that it looks like the Disaster Area Ghost Converter does (or BomeBox).
They look around the same kind of price range so I need to splash out for one I think. Happy to hear of people's experience with either of these please, especially for this application.

shawnb

Quote from: Mrelectric on February 26, 2020, 01:25:36 PM
Thanks both. I should've mentioned that I use the Kenton USB host mkII for the FTP receiver and routing MIDI out to the GR1.
However, it doesn't give any reconfiguration capability in the way that it looks like the Disaster Area Ghost Converter does (or BomeBox).

A clarification - I don't think you're going to get anything out of the Ghost Converter that you don't have in the Kenton today???  It's a simple FTP in => MIDI out.  (Part of its beauty is its simplicity...)  BomeBox looks highly configurable (& tempting...) but I don't have one. 

Here's the whole Ghost Converter manual, right here:
https://www.disasterareaamps.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/gHOST-Converter-Manual.pdf

What type of reconfiguration are you looking for?
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

kevorkian

I have a BomeBox - I don't use it with the FTP as a host (I use the FC-1) but it appears it would certainly work as one and you should be able to configure a workflow to send MIDI to the FTP, although there could be some limitations there (not sure).