Switching 13 pin connector from piezo hex to GK pickup

Started by rmelancon, September 10, 2014, 06:14:21 AM

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rmelancon

So I have the VG-99 and a Brian Moore iGuitar with the RMC piezo hex pickup.  I also have a guitar with a GK-2.  I have the input filter mod on the way (may not be able to install for reasons beyond this post) and I have the latest VG-99 patch and have messed around with the LOW and HI pickup options, etc.  Bottom line is that from all the reading I have done on this forum and others it seems that even with the input filtering and new firmware, the VG-99 simply performs a lot better with the GK pickups.  So I am contemplating adding a GK pickup (the kit that mounts internally) and replacing the 13 pin input with the 13 pin input from the GK kit, or rewiring it to the GK pickup.  I would effectively lose the Piezo pickup (disable it) and replace a few nobs and switches.  Wondering if anyone else has gone this route and if there is any "gotcha's" that I should be aware of?

Elantric

#1
Its a lot of work and you will end up with a guitar worth much less than a stock Brian Moore iGuitar

I would use a different guitar - with current CNC assembly techniques used globally there are many great guitars out there today that are dirt cheap  that make good candidates for a Gk-Internal kit

Order the GK-Kit -GT3 internal Gk kit from Andertons in UK for $125
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12060.msg87642#msg87642



and put it in a Squier Bullet HS Tele ($125) = $250 total
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/electric_guitars/squier/bullet_hs_telecaster/index.html?no_takeover

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Squier-Bullet-HS-Telecaster-Electric-Guitar-109322396-i3225413.gc

Know that Piezo still work better than GK-3 for Acoustic emulations. My best recorded Acoustic guitar tracks are from a Godin LGX-SA with RMC Piezo and Boss GP-10 with the Gibson J-45 COSM Acoustic model   (Boss GP-10 Factory Patch #57 "GB45 Basic")

rmelancon

The plan was to make the change reversible in order to save re-sale value.  The only potential permanent change would be if I physically mount the GK with screws, which i may go double stick for that purpose.  We'll see if this input filter does the trick but I just am not happy with the tones produced with the piezo through the VG-99.  Seems like things work a little better with newer piezo and the newer gr-55. 

Elantric

#3
QuoteWe'll see if this input filter does the trick but I just am not happy with the tones produced with the piezo through the VG-99.

Read thread below which sums up the situation:

* * Hex Pickup Type Advice. (GK-3 vs Piezo)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5043.msg34288#msg34288


Also while taking about differences in guitars  - I find it odd most users of Godin MultiAc Nylon String Guitars with Piezos have a hard time grasping why many VG/GR/GP-10  patches created by a Strat with GK-3 sound horribly wrong with Nylon String guitars. Remember on the Roland hex COSM Modeling systems the String is the source oscillator. If your nylon string guitar has typical Classical guitar characteristics of rapid note decay and poor sustain, indeed the VG COSM Rock Guitar Patch will also have poor sustain. 


Its a common misconception that the underlying guitar type the GK hex pickup is mounted on makes no difference in your final Roland COSM Modeled guitar sound. Even Roland Sales Reps misrepresent this as "fact".

Let me confirm that the Guitar type you choose to use for the VG-99 or GR-55 plays a crucial role in your final output tone from these Roland systems. Other important aspects are your Guitar's intonation, action, String type and gauge, fret wear,  and playing technique - Piezo or Mag hex pickup type all make a big difference in your final output tone with your VG-99 or GR-55.


rmelancon

I have read that.  Your comment about  "ice pick in the ear" pretty much sums up the sounds I'm getting, mostly on high gain/distortion patches.  I've been able to tone that down by maxing out the HI and LOW eq settings for the pickup, but then the overall tone loses and muting (chunking on the low e for instance) is just muddy.  The synth patches, notably the gr-300, has problems (which have been well documented/discussed) which again can be cleaned up with fiddling around with settings and adding the input filter.  I'll have to look for the year on the RMC electronics, sounds like he has made some improvements.  It's hard to justify all the hassle and cost to get the piezo to sound good when I pick up my GK equipped guitar and it just works and sounds great.  It's interesting that Steve Stevens video is from 2011 but that is the GR-55 not the VG-99.  I wonder how much tweaking he had to do.

Elantric

#5
QuoteI've been able to tone that down by maxing out the HI and LOW eq settings for the pickup

That's 180 degrees the wrong setting IMHO - think of the Piezo EQ controls as available "CUT" controls.

On GR55 / VG-99/GP-10 roll down the Piezo Hi EQ to help tame the "ice pick in the ear tone.

And Roll down the Piezo Bass EQ to help tame rumble anomalies with the GR-300 COSM model


Remember the GK-3 has a much less low frequencies  and much less high frequencies - compared to all piezo systems   

Apply the  GK-Piezo EQ control  - but set both High And Low EQ to "Cut" - not "Boost"

rmelancon

I don't have the gr-55, I have the vg-99, and as I said in my earlier post I was able to tame the icepick by changing the eq HI and LOW, but it affected the tones in other adverse ways. 

Elantric

#7
QuoteI don't have the gr-55, I have the vg-99,

GR-55 and VG-99 and Boss GP-10 all have the same Gk Piezo EQ controls  - same paradigm applies to all.

QuoteI was able to tame the icepick by changing the eq HI and LOW, . . . by maxing out the HI and LOW eq settings for the pickup



But I would change these both to be Frequency Cut  - not Frequency Boost

If you Boost the Piezo Low and High EQ- that tends to make every aspect of using Piezo pickups  worse

rmelancon

I mis-used the term "maxing out".  I didn't boost them both, I tried cutting the high all the way negative and boosted low.  I tried different combinations and the max cut on the high side and max boost on the low side helped the most with the "icepick effect" and in general sounded ok, but not nearly as good as the gk.   I will try playing with them again and cut them both to see if that helps.

I know the 99 and 55 have the same options in terms of piezo settings, my thinking is that the 55 has newer tech (by what, about 5 years?) and they may have tweaked some of the components to better deal with piezo "out of the box".

Elantric

Quotethey may have tweaked some of the components to better deal with piezo "out of the box".

So far only the Boss GP-10 appears to have "newer tech" that plays better with  piezo "out of the box".

On GP-10  - I see zero performance difference with an RMC Piezo (2013 Godin LGX-SA) without or without the third party GK Sub Filter