VG-99 - Signal Path Question

Started by ForestCat, April 10, 2015, 10:41:00 AM

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ForestCat

Picked up a VG–99, and starting to spend some quality time with it. Have come to the following to conclusions, which I am hoping someone here can either confirm or deny:

A) There appears to be nothing in the the VG-99 analagous to either the structures, or bypass functionality pertaining to effect signal paths in the GR–55.

B) There appears to be no way to apply effects to the guitar pickup output independently of the effects applied to either of the COSM modules.
   
   At this point, I've reluctantly concluded that for all of its brilliant hex COSM implementation, the regular pickups were barely an afterthought in the the VG-99.  If anyone here has figured out a way to apply effects with stereo returns to the standard guitar pickups without applying those same effects to the COSM chains, and without the use of outboard effects/mixer, I'd sure love to hear your thoughts on this.  I'd love to be wrong about this...
Thanks for reading.

Elantric

#1
Most VG-99 Normal PU users route thru Chain B



Refer to the VG-99 Documentation


Quote
Normal Pickup Level
Knowledge Base ID: 104738
Product: VG-99

If you want to hear your guitar's original pickups in the VG-99, you need to increase the Normal PU level within each patch. Use the following steps to adjust the normal pickup level for a patch;

1. Select a patch to edit.

2. Press the "A" button.

3. Press PAGE right until you see "MIX LEVEL." (Depending on the setup of the patch, this is on page 6 or 7).

4. Turn the F2 knob to increase the NORMAL PU level.

5. Press WRITE twice if you want to save the new setting to the patch.

6. Repeat the steps for any other patches that you want to have the original pickup volume heard in.


Suggest launch the VG-99 Editor and review the numerous VG-99 "Normal PU Only" patches here

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=48.0

Smash

Man you're asking a lot! If I read right you want both COSM A and COSM B FX chains to be able to process and effect the two available virtual guitar models AND separately effect a normal magnetic pick up with completely different effects/settings?!

You're talking about a quadruple amp model effect path! That would mean either 2 VG99's or a VG99 and a GT100 for the mags...  ???

ForestCat

Been through the docs, using the editor from the start. Probably should have clarified further. Just want to make sure I haven't missed some subtle setting

The way it appears to me: 
COSM A ALWAYS sends to FXA, ie any effect enabled in FX Chain A will process COSM A
COSM B ALWAYS sends to FXB, ie any effect enabled in FX Chain B will process COSM B

The Guitar pickup can send to FXA, FXB, or both depending on the "Normal Pickup" mix level as set in either/both of the COSM Guitar detail views in the editor.  Therefore the only way a Normal guitar pickup can pass through to the VG-99's Main outs "un-effected" is if one(or both) of the effect chains is disabled (all effects off).  And, by extension, you lose the ability to "effect" one or both of the COSM's.

Real world scenario 1:  I want to use BOTH COSM A & B.  I want Slicer on COSM A.  I want NO effects on COSM B.  I want a Flanger on the Normal guitar pickup.  How???

Real world scenario 2:   I want to use BOTH COSM A & B.  I want Slicer on COSM A.  I want flanger on COSM B.  I want NO EFFECTS on Normal guitar pickup.  How???

If the above CAN'T be done without outboard effects/mixer, then it seems like the GR-55, while its effects are MUCH more limited and few than the VG-99, has a MUCH more flexible signal routing scheme due to its "structures" and the "bypass" signal path/mixer.  Have I missed something?

RE: "Asking a lot"/"Quadruple Amp/Model Path", no not really.  It can easily be done with the send/return metaphor used in the GR-55.  As I said, I know the VG-99 is much more powerful, but unless I'm missing some settings, the signal path is really inflexible.  In any case, even without more flexible routing, it would only need three effects chains, not four.   The ideal approach would have been to mix/match effects on three busses w/ selectable source sends.

Elantric

#4
Feed VG-99 Normal Guitar Out into a GT-001 or a Kemper (!)

Processing Normal PUs signal path has always been a tacked on  afterthought on these boxes.

The 1995 VG-8 could not process any Normal PUs , this function 1st appeared on the 2000 VG-88 , followed by 2007 VG-99

( of course the GR-55 doesn't have a normal Mag PU input jack)

IMHO  - the Boss GP-10 is the first "V-Guitar" design that right out of the box encourages users to actually employ their normal mag PUs with many patches setup for this

Smash


rolandvg99

Just want to chime in on this one. The COSM guitar can be moved freely along the chain leaving FX applied before the COSM insert to MAG PU only, but everything added after the insert applies to both MAG and COSM.


Scenario 1 is possible using the chain order. I.e.


Normal PU                                                                                 COSM GTR
|                                                                                               |
-> CMP - DST - NS - CHO - FV - M1 - AMP - M2 - EQ - DLY - REV - ->


Scenario 2 is possible using guitar out and sending straight to outboard gear.
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ForestCat

#7
Thanks, man.   I do wish they'd given us a way to "split" the rack, or, even better, use the send/return metaphor from the GR-55, but on each unit in the rack.  Problem solved.  Would make it the single most versatile multi-guitar/multi-effect unit in existence.  But it's an insanely cool device as it sits.  I just can't turn off my "engineer mentality", though :-)

EDIT:  Now that I think about, this would be my design:

4 "sources": COSM A,B; Pickup A,B

4 "busses": MAIN L,R; SUB L,R

Each effect: 
                   5 Input Source Mix/Input Level faders:
                           Previous Effect
                           COSM A
                           COSM B
                           Pickup A
                           Pickup B

                   5  Output Level faders:
                           Next Effect
                           Main L
                           Main R
                           Sub L
                           Sub R