macos - what I risk if I upgrade?

Started by pasha811, September 02, 2017, 08:47:16 AM

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pasha811

Still on Mavericks here. Owner of GP10, VG99, GT-1. I have read about some sierra problems with some of the fore mentioned hardware. I would like to upgrade before High Sierra comes in play as I think VG99 support will be gone by that.
If I am not wrong I could download and install El Capitan even if not latest but I'd like to move to sierra and stop there for a long time. What's your suggestion?

Thanks in advance,
Best
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

admin


Brak(E)man

Quote from: admsustainiac on September 02, 2017, 09:51:21 AM
I'm stopping at Yosemite

Same here and I'm still on 10.6 snow leopard and 10.3 panther as well

(If I'm upgrading it'll be on a external HD to boot from so I have the old osx still
If the new updated system doesn't work.)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on September 02, 2017, 11:30:44 AM
Same here and I'm still on 10.6 snow leopard and 10.3 panther as well

(If I'm upgrading it'll be on a external HD to boot from so I have the old osx still
If the new updated system doesn't work.)

Well Brak(E)man I am already booting from external (SSD) drive. 4 years ago I made the mistake to get the iMac lemon with 5400 RPM hard drive. Since external SSD boot (USB 3.0) a pleasure. However you just gave me a good idea! I will copy the SSD with superduper onto the internal slower drive, upgrade the SSD and test. If anything, boot from internal and go back!

;D :) 
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

arkieboy

I understand that your milage may vary, but here's the desktop of my mac
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

admin

http://www.akaipro.com/support/kb/articles/macos-mojave-and-ios12-support-for-akai-pro-products

As Apple unveils its newest operating system, it's time to decide if your system is ready for an update. As always, new cosmetic features and desktop animations can be fun to use, but may not mean better performance for the center of your studio. Whether you are an Engineer, Musician, DJ, or any other audio-visual professional, the only thing that truly matters is that your gear works and continues to work when you need it the most.

To help you stay updated, we've tested our products with the latest pre-release versions of macOS Mojave 10.14 prior to its release. If you do not see your product on this list, it has not been qualified for use with the new operating system and we recommend refraining from updating your computer until complete compatibility can be confirmed. This list will be kept updated as necessary to reflect all current support for macOS Mojave 10.14.


https://macpaw.com/how-to/fix-macos-mojave-problems


aliensporebomb

Update:  MacOS Mojave was released today.  Update at your peril.  I might try it on an external drive just to see what still works and what does not.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Nima

I took the plunge and installed Mojave and although I'm sure I'm speaking too soon, both my VG and VB editors seem to be running just fine.   :o

aliensporebomb

#9
On my external drive I found that previously installed extensions such as the VG-99, and RC-300 extensions work fine.  I had to reinstall the GP-10 and give the OS permission to install it since it didn't recognize Roland Corp as a legit developer (or was just being overly sensitive).

Functioning apps:
Boss Tone Studio for GP-10 Guitar Processor
Boss Tone Studio for RC-300 Loopstation
Roland VG-99 Librarian
Roland VG-99 Editor
Apple Garageband v6.05 [I like the UI better than the later version)
Apple Garageband v10.12
Reaper 64 v5.95
Audacity v2.2.2x
Pigtronix-Infinity App
Ableton Live 9 Lite
Capo v3.4
Mobius v2.0
Fidelia v1.6.5 (must allow app to control computer in privacy tab of security & privacy)
Riffstation v1.6.3.0
Kore Player (goes back to v2.1.2 which requires re-serialization - product EOL so need existing serial on record)

More results later!


I've got a lot of old stuff to remove from my system that I haven't used in eons but these things listed above get used all of the time.
Surprised, I've never had this much stuff work straight out of the gate with a new OS update.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

admin

#10
and follow these steps if you are using latest macOS versions

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1228743-mbp-high-sierra-mojave-coreaudio-overload-bug.html

zenwolf
Gear Head


My Studio

MBP High Sierra and Mojave CoreAudio overload bug
I'm looking for other MacBook Pro users to verify a CoreAudio overload bug that occurs in both High Sierra 10.13.6 and the latest Mojave Beta 10.14. I've tested a new MBP 2018 with the i9 cpu, 32GB ram, 1TB HDD, and a late 2013 MBP & 2011 MBP. All running High Sierra.

The issue involves a background kernel process called the AppleSmartBatteryManager. On my systems, it runs a diagnostic poll of the battery status every 60 seconds. Regardless of being plugged into the AC adapter. This event creates a CPU spike that can overload your CoreAudio and cause a dropout/glitch sound. Typically because most pro audio applications are putting your active track on the same core as the background kernel processes.

I've created a couple videos detailing my steps, this being the latest with Mojave, the other video link is in its YouTube description. There I also reproduce it within High Sierra: YouTube

Here are the steps if you don't want to watch the video. I use Logic Pro to demonstrate it since its CPU meter isn't averaged like in Ableton 10 or Cubase 9.5.3. It's easier to see the cpu spike. I have tested Ableton and Cubase and can reproduce the overload events.

1. Open Logic
2. Create Instrument Track with Alchemy Bowed Metal Space patch (or some other cpu intensive plugin) I usually add in a default chromaverb fx to get the cpu on live play over 50%. I've also used Keyscape, Kontakt libraries, and uh-e synths with similar results.
3. Double click your Logic CPU meter to get floating window showing all cores.
3. Open your OSX Console App and search Battery and note the time the AppleSmartBatteryManager start poll event occurs.
4. Open your System Pref Time and Date leave that viewable to track time.
5. Start playing the Alchemy patch live as the active track and watch CPU meter as time approaches the AppleSmartBatteryManager poll start.
6. You should encounter a sizable cpu spike, and high potential for a audio drop out. Repeat a few more min cycles noting if you got a glitch audio dropout.
7. Return to the System Console and search those event times. You should see the AppleSmartBatteryManager poll start, then immediately restart, then some of its command checks, and if you had a dropout, a CoreAudio overload message(s). All occurring at the same second mark.

On my tested systems I get a CoreAudio overload event more than 90% of the time. And register a CPU spike every time. I've tested with the internal MBP sound, and RME Babyface Pro, and a DigiGrid D Ethernet Audio Interface. Depending on project size this can occur at all CoreAudio buffer settings. My example above I had 128 selected. Changing the processing core setting in Logic has no effect. It always puts the active track the same as the kernel level processes.

I've started a bug report through Apple developer for Mojave. But as with all things, the more eyes that get on this the more likely a fix.


--


I've gotten to the root of the issue and submitted an Apple Dev Bug Report. The AppleSmartBatteryManager driver is part of the IOKit framework, as is CoreAudio. The IOKit has an associated WorkLoop which is basically a que of background tasks it runs. When these are single threaded, like the polling method the Battery Manager uses for its CommandGate checks, or running the active live track in Logic, they exist on the same core, and basically get lined up to run in the WorkLoop. However, the Battery Manager gets priority based on its Command checks. It locks out the core for its cycle. So when a low latency single threaded coreaudio event happens at the same time, you get the skipped cycle error, and then the coreaudio stream can overload producing the audio dropout. You can avoid it by running a higher CoreAudio buffer sample, but if the CPU load is high enough on your audio process, it can still conflict and overload.

Apple did respond for additional diagnostic info, and I also spoke with Logic support and gave them the same details. I even spoke with RME since I initially thought it was exclusive to their driver. Hopefully it gets addressed in some form. To me moving it off the shared WorkLoop, or giving CoreAudio priority should solve it. I verified the bug by disabling the battery manager and the problem went away. Not a fix though, since you cannot get battery health status and have safe guards against overheating or overcharging.


--

The problem is still there and it's really an OS X issue rather than hardware. Though MacBooks have the specific problem of the smart battery driver, anyone on a Mac can experience poor audio performance. #1 thing to do is create a separate user for your pro audio work. On that user do not setup iCloud. Turn off Siri. Disable Notifications. Make sure you don't have Bluetooth PAN as a Network Device. Then get the free app called Onyx and use it to turn off Spotlight indexing. Also stay offline while working in your DAW. That'll get you mostly there. Other things to do are a bit more involved and require disabling system files. You can prevent the battery driver from loading and disable other background processes. It's a pain, but this issue is going to require some major code rewrite from Apple. The system is powerful for sure, it just isn't designed around low latency audio. Real-time low latency audio processes are single threaded onto the same core that the system bus background tasks run and often those are either a higher priority than your coreaudio stream or they run a special type of process that essentially locks the cpu core until all of its commands have completed. Those are the usual culprits for overloading the audio buffer. The battery manager being the worst.



--

They had me run a Sysdiagnose Report I also gave specifics on the occurrence with my MBP. No telling if they will actually address the bug, but they did respond twice -- although that could have been automated.

Yes, my fixes greatly improved performance. Logic however is the most finicky of the DAWs for background processes causing issues. Ableton is pretty solid with the fixes. I have a RME BFP and a DigiGrid D, and the DigiGrid tends to be more stable, even working fine without the fixes, but causes the system fan to run higher. I think that is a firmware issue on the MBP relating network traffic to fan speeds. It does the same when iCloud processes are running. Perhaps it is the network audio vs usb protocol.

I use a paid program called TinkerTool System to change a setting that gives priority to background network traffic, so that may be helping.
https://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerToolSys4.html
Every once in a while I'll still get a glitch on the RME, but it is very rare. Some system process is still overloading the buffer, but that is only at a low buffer setting of 64 samples. 128 and higher don't have issues. About to try out a Apollo X6 Thunderbolt 3 to see if it does better, I'll post my results. I should have that interface next week.


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1228743-mbp-high-sierra-mojave-coreaudio-overload-bug-6.html



vtgearhead

Looks like Apple is taking DAW-breakage lessons from Microsoft...

admin

#13
https://www.gearnews.com/macos-catalina-will-break-most-of-your-music-apps-and-equipment-on-its-launch/

Getting a thoroughly renovated operating system for free, yearly, and on devices dating as far back as 2012 is all kinds of wonderful, but it's not without repercussions. At best, Mac users working with specialized software and equipment usually postpone the yearly update until all drivers, apps, and plug-ins they use are deemed compatible. At worst, they fight the update tooth and claw, as daring to transition means sabotaging their work indefinitely. Alas, the decisions Apple has to face throughout development sometimes have major consequences.

Two years ago, macOS High Sierra brought perfectly healthy Macs to a crawl, sparking outrage. Coming this October, macOS Catalina will break most, if not all of your music apps and equipment upon launch while doubling down on those annoying security prompts that seem to question every step of your workflow. It's no ill will, it's the ills of modern computing.

An exact culprit is difficult to pinpoint. It's more of a combination of abandoning 32-bit code altogether, even stricter app runtime and installer notarization practices, a complete refusal to accept unverified drivers, and the yet unanswered question of how DJs will integrate their iTunes library with DJ software once iTunes gets the axe. This stuff breaks music software and other "pro" apps in one or more of the following ways:

Applications that still employ 32-bit software components due to legacy compatibility, developer laziness or whatever reason have to be updated to full-on 64-bit code before they are compatible with macOS Catalina. Whether the current software version you own will be migrated to full 64-bit, or a new paid upgrade will be issued instead is entirely up to the developer. For example, Ableton Live 9 will cease functioning under Catalina and no update will be provided. If you want to run Live under Catalina, you must own version 10.

Breaking DAWs and Plug-ins
The notarization and hardened runtime policies in Catalina break DAWs and plug-ins in weird and unpredictable ways. Routine file and memory access procedures that happen to mirror common malware behavior either don't work or require explicit user approval. Thorough updates are in order to ensure compatibility. PreSonus, for example, announced its Studio One DAW and third-party plug-ins from after June 1, 2019 must be updated for Catalina and probably won't work upon launch. Older plug-ins likely won't load unless they are signed by Apple.

PreSonus is joined by the likes of Numark, Serato, Slate Digital, and Native Instruments who are also asking users to hold off from updating. In Native's case, none of its products will be compatible at launch, and the strict security forever breaks the installers for Komplete 8 – 10 on HDDs and DVDs. Enjoy leeching those gigabytes of content from Native Access – I sincerely hope you have speedy internet where you live.

While attempting to run "unverified" installers and software that work in Mojave is still possible with a manual override, that's not the case with device drivers. Drivers and their installers that are not built for Catalina are completely off limits, so if you own legacy hardware that still works under your version of macOS but is no longer maintained, you are stuck. In the pro audio world, new isn't always better, but it's guaranteed to be more expensive, so this isn't a simple case of "get with the times". The light in the tunnel is that class-compliant devices will continue functioning as normal, unless they require specialized drivers or applications.

Finally, Apple is retiring iTunes for the streamlined Music app, which is mostly good news except for Music's lack of ability to communicate with DJ apps at launch. While iTunes could seamlessly share its music library with other apps, the new Music app has you exporting an .xml file to import back into your DJ app, and you are supposed to do this manually each time your music library changes. Reportedly, Apple and DJ software makers are figuring out something better than what was possible with those ancient .xml files – though if something isn't broken or due for improvement in a meaningful way, why even touch it?

What are your options?
It's clear that you shouldn't switch to Catalina as your sole operating system until you get the e-mails that your products are officially compatible. In the meantime, you can also dual-boot Catalina and an older macOS/OS X version that's stable and works for you.

If you insist on having Catalina at launch, be sure to thoroughly backup your computer with a disk cloning tool, Apple's own Time Machine software, or even both. This way, you will be able to restore a working setup without too much of a hassle.

A systematic, gradual rollout of these drastic changes in place of delivering them all at once in a major update would have made for a smoother transition that's more considerate of professional users and developers. However, we cannot know for sure if Apple really had the means to do better. Software development is incredibly complex, and with so many mission-critical systems intertwined and co-dependent, such a scenario is probably idyllic. Where it certainly could have done better, I believe anyone who's bought a 2016 or later laptop from Apple knows maddeningly well

Mrchevy

Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: Mrchevy on September 13, 2019, 08:07:39 PM
loving my windows pc's 8)

No worries - Microsoft is implementing similar security measures in Windows and you'll soon be in the same boat!   ;D ;D
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

admin

Catalina, the new version of OS X, has been released.
For the time being, if you want to be able to guarantee the use of your Arturia software, and integration of Arturia hardware, we advise you not to upgrade right now.
macOS Catalina drops support for 32-bit applications. Our current range of products all offer 64-bit options, but many of our legacy products are only available in 32-bit. You may have a few of them installed.

Even if all of your apps are 64-bit and appear compatible, we would strongly advise you to delay upgrading until Arturia, and many other software developers, release "hotfix" versions of our apps that will work on Apple's new OS.

Kind regards

admin

https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/06/psa-logic-pro-on-catalina/

While the imminent release of the latest macOS is upon us, there are some things to be aware of when it comes to running Logic Pro on Catalina. Home music producers beware as this update could very well silence your latest masterpieces if you're not careful. Updating to Apple's latest operating system too soon can yield all sorts of issues with your Logic Pro X projects using third-party gear, so be sure to hit the jump for more details.



Logic Pro on Catalina
Along with removing support for 32-bit code, tightened security measures in Catalina will also force third-party software makers to dig in a little deeper when preparing for Apple's latest operating system. More specifically, but without getting overly technical, there are integral changes being made to the way software can access certain information and the way permissions and installers work.

Although Apple has relaxed some of the notarization requirements for developers, it could still very well cause longer than usual update delays for the third-party FX and instruments you use every day in LPX. Just running Logic Pro on Catalina won't necessarily be a problem, it's the rest of that third-party gear you need to watch out for.

Third-party gear in Catalina
Many of the security exploitations Apple is protecting us against in Catalina essentially look very much the same as what your typical DAW needs to carry out when accessing external software (third-party effects, instruments, and tools, etc).

For example, something like the popular KONTAKT sampler from Native Instruments will need to play nice with these new permissions in order to properly access library files and the like. To put it simply, (just about) all of your favorite third-party plug-ins are most likely going to need to be updated before they will work in Logic Pro on Catalina. And chances are, those updates won't be ready on day one.

While the changes to hardened runtime and notarization sound good and all, don't make the mistake of updating to Catalina too soon. In fact, we would recommend definitely not updating on day one or even week one. We've been burned in the past and the last thing we want to see is new music producers updating their web browsing system just to have their Logic projects rendered near useless in the process.

Now, it's not the end of the world if we are just talking about casual music work via Logic Pro on Catalina, as your preferred gear will likely update at some point down the line. And you could always go through the extremely annoying process of downgrading your OS if needs be. But you'll be stuck up a creek with a brand new shiny Logic Pro X boat and none of those fancy third-party paddles to run it in the meantime.

Logic Pro on Catalina update warning

Some of the biggest virtual gear makers for the most popular DAWs have already sent out warnings. ROLI, Native Instruments, iZotope, Elektron, IK Multimedia, Steinberg, Soundtoys, and many more have all issued formal warnings to music producers stating their products are not yet ready for Apple's latest version of macOS.

The Native Instruments comments on the situation echo most of the sentiment we have been hearing from several virtual instrument and FX makers thus far:

Native Instruments software and hardware products are not supported under macOS 10.15. Please do not install macOS 10.15 if you are using Native Instruments products...We are currently conducting systematic tests to offer full compatibility as soon as possible after the official release. Please check this page or your Native Instruments product's specifications page regularly to obtain information on the current operating system requirements.

While Native Instruments has a particularly massive undertaking on its hands considering the sheer number of products it has to update for Logic Pro on Catalina (and every other DAW), most of the gear we use is in a similar situation. While there are some manufacturers out there that are going to be ready, some certainly will not. The main take away here? You probably don't want to update your studio Mac system to Catalina until each of the gear makers you use specifically says to do so.

Again, this is nothing seasoned producers and engineers aren't used to. It's really more of a yearly tradition at this point. But if this article saved even one new songwriter's epic masterpiece from update compatibility hell, then it was all worth it for us.