Electric Guitar is Dead (your opinion)

Started by yuri, May 25, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

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Now_And_Then

Quote from: Elantric on May 25, 2016, 01:17:38 PM(Manually disembedded, sorry.)

Combining those those two things with the pound sign, which I believe are twitter accounts, we get "Katya Kuzyakina - Girl Drummer". (Well, *I* thought it was kinda funny.)

Elantric

#26
Re:  -"Katya Kuzyakina - Girl Drummer video - it has 14 million views
Her name is Katia Kuziakina, she's age 7. She's from Yasnogorodka, Ukraine.
She's SELF-TAUGHT! This is her in the "Hit Like A Girl" contest.
http://www.hitlikeagirlcontest.com/under-18/entry/kat-2016
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtVatdoUASnCJ5Si9A_Na8w/videos

I consider her a prodigy, and who knows where her career may lead

I have same reaction when i see this Mohina Dey play the Bass
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17141.0


Now_And_Then

 You remember Chicchi, right? I'm not sure how well that worked out, in terms of either commercial or artistic success. (Maybe great on both counts but I don't really know.)

I'm not sure that being able to play at a young age actually guarantees anything at all.

DreamTheory

Well if you are in Erbusco, Italy on June 30, stop by and catch Al Di Meola playing at Cantina Bellavista. Then tell us if electric guitar is dead!

They used to say "God is dead" so I guess maybe you are playing off of that phrase. Maybe you are saying the hegemony of "guitar god" as an entertainment icon is dead. I am playing with words, friends. It is hard to discuss this seriously without defining what we are saying.

Is the electric guitar as it existed in 1968 still a symbol of and vehicle for cathartic expression? Adolescent rebellion? Challenging "the man?" of course! Is it still ubiquitously popular? Of course! For instance, I bet you could find a blues festival of some sort within driving distance any weekend this summer.

Have we moved on from the days when learning the opening to Stairway to Heaven was the dream of every 13 year old kid with a six string? Well, yeah. Now they also want to learn Sweet Child O' Mine. :) In America you can hear them any Saturday morning you are foolish enough to walk into a guitar store. Hey hey, my my.

Now we have a situation where we can have any mix or combination of things- models, samples, synthesized sounds of various sorts, controlled by keyboards, fretboards, drum pads, even wind. You can zero in on a subgenre of pop, defy genres, or go a la carte. One result of the proliferation of cheap effects is that we appreciate real, authentic sounds even more, be they real brass trumpets or real tube amplifiers, real boutique stomp boxes, or real analog synthesizers.

There used to be a "generation gap" that you could just about define by whether or not people wore blue jeans and listened to The Beatles. A man's hair length was a huge statement with serious consequences. By and large all of these style revolutions are completely mainstream now. TV commercials have used so many rock anthems. The electric guitar does not carry the same aura of amazement and shock value. Your typical contemporary church service reminds me of a cover band from the 1970's playing at a teen dance. But does that mean the electric guitar is dead, or does that mean it is more alive than ever?

Even if it were true, it would be unfair to the electric guitar to define it only as the models that existed in 1968, and then complain that it is out of style. The electric guitar today includes all kinds of crazy things like the Yamaha Silent Guitar, and hybrid guitars, the Variax, the Roland Ready Strat, the Chapman Stick, to name but a few. So from this perspective, it's not dead, it continues to morph into new forms.

Thanks for the provocative question. I am gonna side with the electric guitar still being alive, relevant, popular, potent, etc. with the caveat that of course it is also more accepted in mainstream culture.


electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

Pete1959

Electric guitar is alive.
It is probably less mainstream than what it was in the past.

I had a recent experience in a music store where I was checking out PA gear when some young 20-something was talking music equipment with me. I asked him what instrument he played and he proudly proclaimed "I'm a DJ... I play the [turntable] platters.." Wow! That's an instrument?

When I mentioned I played electric guitar, the response reminded me of the old Star Trek movie when Scotty was handed a computer mouse and promptly replies "..how quaint!"

Stuff changes but perhaps the dominant instrument in modern music is no longer the electric guitar.

It will however, still have its legion of followers long after we are all gone.

acousticglue

Quote from: Cups on May 25, 2016, 01:50:47 PM
"They don't give a damn about any trumpet playing band. It ain't what they call rock n'roll"

Awesome. Classic.

Elantric

#31
The late 1970's punk movement declared Led Zeppelin, Peter Frampton, Boston (Corporate Rock) was dead, and that resulted in lower prices for early '70's Gibsons in the used market, and lower demand for new Gibson guitars as everyone wanted a vintage Mosrite like the Ramones, or Gretsch like "Bow Wow Wow" or Stray Cats


The 1980's were very bad days for USA Guitar companies, due to a poor economy and huge growth of 1980's synths (DX7) in modern music .
and this same "guitar is dead" quote occurred back in the early 80's during the Howard Jones, Thomas Dolby, Gary Newman, Vince Clark Erasure / Depeche Mode period of pop music.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthpop


In an attempt to survive, Gibson was forced to create a budget line of guitars with bolt on necks


(The 1980 Sonex model body had an inner core that was basically made of glue and sawdust - motivated to offer a lower cost USA Gibson, and avoid sourcing wood from Norlin's Ecuadorian wood cartel, due to supply issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_Guitar_Corporation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_Sonex

http://planetbotch.blogspot.com/2012/06/gibson-sonex-180-deluxe.html


The 1984 Gibson Challenger and Invaders ( Les Pauls with bolt on necks ) was a method for Gibson to use left over 1980 Gibson Sonex necks



The result?
Gibson Challenger and Invader guitars were aptly named as Gibson felt both Challenged and Invaded on their home turf in USA by the import copies.

In the early 1980's The public could walk into any  music store and find import Les Paul copies that were superior guitars to the Bolt on neck Gibson Sonex , and half the price  - I helped a friend buy a Fresher "Leo Pine" like one of these for $250 brand new.   


Even Hondo II's made several great guitars many priced well under $300



Since every Mom & Pop music store sold Hohner Harmonicas - they got into the act too
http://www.rareelectricguitar.com/Hohner-Prince-Telecaster-Guitar-sale_2704.html


By 1986, Gibson was near death when Henry Juszkiewicz and David Berryman purchased  Gibson guitar company for $5 million 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_Guitar_Corporation
They soon after purchased Steinberger (a high tech guitar brand)  - owning both old school and modern guitar companies would hedge their bets .   
Popular conjecture is "Slash" saved Gibson guitar 
http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?160324-Slash-saves-the-Les-Paul
Quote"When Guns and Roses hit the scene, the average pice of a used Les Paul was less tha $500.00. An SG was in the $200.00 range. After Slash became the latest and greatest, everyone started ditching their Charvels, and wanting Les Pauls. The price went up immediately to over $1200.00 (even higher for older ones)and has remained a high value guitar ever since. It wasn't until the Wall Street Journal told all the collectors and investors to start grabbing vintage guitars as a good return. As a result, SG values finally went up. The SG had always had a traditionally low resale value. Their current high value is not a direct result of AC/DC, but the market in general. In the eighties, AC/DC was not selling the units G 'n R was, and didn't have the influence to drastically change the market value of used guitars. There were a lot of great guitarists playing SG's over the years, but non of them had a mega hit like "Sweet Child o' Mine." Gibson wouldn't even put out a proper Standard until after Guns and Roses saved them from bankruptcy, even though the market dictated that they could sell a book matcked PAF equipted Les Paul Standard."

whippinpost91850

I CAN REMEMBER THOSE DAYS. I f you sold a Les Paul for more then $500 you were rippin people off ???

Pete1959

#33
I remember those days as well!
My first "real" electric was an Ibanez LP Recorder model with bolt on neck.
I then decided to upgrade to a Gibson L6S which was more of an SG with a single cutaway and 6 way rotary switch for pickup selection.
I did not like that guitar and sold it to buy the one guitar I really regret selling and should have kept to this day: an Ibanez Les Paul with a glued in neck, and a mandolin style headstock.
If memory serves me well, this was one of the first Artist series. Really could kick myself in the head for selling that one...
I have never seen another one like it other than the occasional picture in some guitar books.
I found a picture of my exact LP Custom Ibanez on Google images

http://guitarz.blogspot.ca/2010/03/ibanez-les-paul-custom-agent-2405_01.html


My Ibanez was a much better guitar than my L6S IMHO and still recall a friend showing off his Gibson Marauder to me back in 1980 and thinking.. what?

If only....

aliensporebomb

I had a Gibson L6-S as well, a black one and it was my first electric guitar produced by a "name brand company".
I felt weird selling it only a year or so later but there was something missing.

As far as Ibanez goes - this is the guitar I wish I still had:


What a terrific guitar, sounded and played great, just very heavy compared to all my other guitars (about 11 pounds).  It even looked pretty.


My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

chrish

#35
Quote from: aliensporebomb on May 26, 2016, 08:41:54 AM
I had a Gibson L6-S as well, a black one and it was my first electric guitar produced by a "name brand company".
I felt weird selling it only a year or so later but there was something missing.

As far as Ibanez goes - this is the guitar I wish I still had:


What a terrific guitar, sounded and played great, just very heavy compared to all my other guitars (about 11 pounds).  It even looked pretty.
After i blew the disco band audition (played a C/Fm in stead of Fm), i sold my Black  Gibson les paul custom (would have looked good with a tuxedo) for $325 and moved west (late 70's). When i got back into music in the late 80's i purchased a used 1981 ibanez artist like the one you picture except without pickup covers. I went with that because you could get the les paul tone and better fret access, and it has the perfect neck. With some heavy guage strings, it makes a good midi guitar, but i did have to drill a hole in the plasic pickup trim to mount the gk-2. Those models sell for inexpensive used prices on ebay. Many cool used guitars there for not much money. Keeping with the theme of this thread, Is that where electric guitars go when they're dying? 'Do androids dream of electric sheep'?

Elantric

#36

yuri

#37


pasha811

Quote from: yuri on May 25, 2016, 09:32:43 AM
Maybe even get to America , I do not know? But ..Here at Italy ,Electric guitar  is an instrument dead (unfortunately)Here guitar players  many  also virtuousus great prof guitarists  with high scool for guitar   , they are nothing more for  the public, so they play for an sandwich with salami    :(., I looked  his concert G Bregovic  ,with trumpets,the public is   jumping and  screaming, like when I saw Beatles film   all young  public !(i dont like  his Music   )but

Hi Yuri, I'm Italian. I have a different perception. In rehearsal studios (rent 12 to 17 euro per hours) it's very hard to find a time to book.
All bands I meet and know have at least one guitar. Personal taste but the music in the video in your post is not exciting for me.. in fact I wasn't there. In Milan I have a friend of mine who plays guitar in 5 bands at the same time and plays gigs 4 times a month. Guitar it's not dead at all. What it's dead in our poor country (Italy) it's the respect for Musicians. Yes people play for a pizza and a beer but those 'Musicians' are not Pros, sometimes are less than semi-pro.. However because of that the Pros needs to play for pizza and beer too. See the very sad example of Eataly in Milan. Good stage, good PA.. but you play for food... At club 54 in Bresso near Milan every year we have a month dedicated to all styles of Hard Rock and Metal.. (too loud for my ears) lot of guitars there and very good guitarist. There's always a Guest Star and many 'filler bands' before that. I'm sure they play for free (except the Guest Star band). This culture comes from years of stealing music over peer 2 peers networks IMHO. What is music? For the young generations it's an mp3 file, not the effort and the that it's behind that. So don't be sad because guitar is dead, because it's not. <rant>Be sad because our country does not respect musicians anymore <rant end>. If you are famous you can play whatever instrument you want, you'll be paid. If you are not.. Pizza and a Beer, Guitar, Trumpets, Sax or Piano.. will not make a difference. Good luck. At the time of writing I hear music from the street festival below, guitars all over the place...   
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

yuri

This video does say that all are now professionals with eletric guitar, even children  - nothing new, Prof or not prof guitarist  .Although I disagree with you thanks for your witnesses  .

BobbyD

110% agree. Unless it's used for heavy metal, funk, blues, and Rhythm in those styles, no body gives a flying hoot about shredding anymore.  They were great days listening to Yynvie, Dimealo etc, and I learned a lot.  These days I focus on MIDI guitar with fishman triple play and my response from people is they are much more interested and BLOWN AWAY from doing things unimaginable 5 years ago than playing the harmonic minor scale at 200 BPMs,.

DreamTheory

Quote from: chrish on May 25, 2016, 12:31:02 PM
I think it's important to realize, that we here in the U.S.  don't have the rich cultural history (except of course our first nation cousins) that exists in other parts of the world. The guitar is our ethnic instrument and our history includes jazz, blues, rock, folk and country, which are all musical fussions derived from the countries from which we or our ancestors originated. Also consider that we in the U.S. are attracted to bright, shiny objects with lots of colored lights. :-)

Right on, bro- the guitar is our ethnic instrument! I love that sentiment! haha You could say the electric guitar is our "wonder of the world"

But I might quibble with you saying America's cultural history is not "rich" - perhaps we could say American culture is not "ancient?" Of course you did note the "first nation" (Native Americans), and you did call them our cousins. Heck, a huge number of people (like my grandmother) in America have "one drop" Native American ancestry. I do not mean to sound like I am correcting or scolding your history or cultural sensitivity. You're cool. Yeah those Native American cultures have been deplorably marginalized and in many cases much is lost forever, yet somehow they persist in the American Story as a thread in the tapestry. (Someday I'm gonna open a coffee shop called Qeequeg's.)

And when you look at any culture the story is actually similar. Take England- as far back as written history and archaeology can tell us: conquered by Celts, Romans, Saxons, Angles from the Western European lowlands (hence the name Angle-land or England), Danes, and French; with atrocities, slavery, and lost cultural forms all along the way. But there are little bits that peek through. For instance many English words with "sk" in them are Scandinavian. "Ski" and "skirt" come from their viking fore-bearers. You see Celtic words in place names, but there are less than ten actual ancient Celtic words remaining in the English language. We probably have more Native American words. Tomato and Potato for starters! I guess what I am saying is that most nations (that we ever heard of) have tried to wipe out their neighbors, with varying degrees of success. And people are all a mix of other people, cultures are all a remix of other cultures. What is English culture, if you take out the stuff they got from other cultures? (by George, no tea! and no St. George either!)

I don't mean to rant, but take any story. Jack in the Beanstalk for instance. Turns out Europeans learned it, along with Algebra and all things Greek, from the Arabians. And it can be traced all the way back to India. As with other archetypes etc. I'm gonna bet anyone curious enough to get into guitar synth knows this stuff already, so I won't blab about The (Guitar) Hero With A Thousand Faces. All I'm tryin' to say is that sure, other lands have cultures with ancient origins that flowered in various classical ages, and they should be proud, but they were all remixes of their ancestors just like Americans are a remix. With us the mixin' is jus' better documented.

Assimilation is also accelerated by technology's crazy curve in the last 100 years. English language exists as we know it because of the invention of the printed Bible. That speared their words worse than Willie the Shake, freezing many of them right in the middle of their lepidopteral transformations. No more "nuncles" - that pesky drifting "n" was forever locked down right where it happened to be lurking around Anno Domini 1611. Give me an egg and I'll give you two chickens, nuncle. Same thing (printing) happened to pretty much all other languages. Now we live in an age where people in remote villages have cell phones. Evangelists tell us there are still 4,000 or so languages without a written Bible. They better quick invent more syntax before ol' King Jimmy shuts 'em down.

Good, bad, or indifferent, cultures are by and large no longer developing in isolation, except the isolation caused by our own apparently willful xenophobia and regressive ignorance. But culture itself is bigger than our war and peace, or leisure and toil, because culture is just the construct we put around whatever we are doing in any given fleeting millenum. The African American poet got the question right: "Spicy grove, cinnamon tree, What is Africa to me?"

If anything, that mixology IS what American culture is. And it is still going on at a blinding speed, or perhaps we are just too blind to see it. We don't always get it right, but it does seem to be always on the table. Ain't that America? The answer, my friend, is that snapshot of Woody Guthrie with the words "THIS MACHINE KILLS FASCISTS" written on his guitar. I don't care if you want to throw in Rosetta Tharpe or Mike Shinoda, our our own beloved Rob Marcello, may his 13 pins never require DeOxit, as he is listed in Wikipedia under American Heavy Metal Guitarists. I thought he hailed from Örebro, as did my other grandmother. Yo Rob we could be distant cousins!

electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

carlb

Quote from: Pete1959 on May 26, 2016, 08:24:31 AM
I remember those days as well!
My first "real" electric was an Ibanez LP Recorder model with bolt on neck.
I then decided to upgrade to a Gibson L6S which was more of an SG with a single cutaway and 6 way rotary switch for pickup selection.
I did not like that guitar and sold it to buy the one guitar I really regret selling and should have kept to this day: an Ibanez Les Paul with a glued in neck, and a mandolin style headstock.
If memory serves me well, this was one of the first Artist series. Really could kick myself in the head for selling that one...
I have never seen another one like it other than the occasional picture in some guitar books.
I found a picture of my exact LP Custom Ibanez on Google images

http://guitarz.blogspot.ca/2010/03/ibanez-les-paul-custom-agent-2405_01.html


My Ibanez was a much better guitar than my L6S IMHO and still recall a friend showing off his Gibson Marauder to me back in 1980 and thinking.. what?

If only....

Still have mine. Heavily modded - what do you expect from a then 15 year old with a soldering gun?

But guess what odd duck I sold to get the the Custom Agent? Bwaw! Grown man crying here:



The Les Paul Signature wasn't cool enough for the 15 year old, noooo. Dumb.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Pete1959

Quote from: carlb on July 09, 2016, 10:21:57 PM
Still have mine. Heavily modded - what do you expect from a then 15 year old with a soldering gun?

But guess what odd duck I sold to get the the Custom Agent? Bwaw! Grown man crying here:



The Les Paul Signature wasn't cool enough for the 15 year old, noooo. Dumb.

LOL! Yes, there is truth that "youth is wasted on the young.." Not only regretting the Ibanez,  I neglected to mention buying for $25 a Meazzi amp with built-in tape echo. It was in perfect condition and figured I could turn a quick profit to buy another amp. Always afraid to research to this day just how dumb I was 40 years ago. I would cry if the amp is now worth a fortune.

As for the "guitar is dead notion", it would seem to be more of a "guitar is no longer mainstream" IMHO
Even the far more obscure instruments never completely fade away.

sixeight

QuoteI would cry if the amp is now worth a fortune.

The opposite also happens. I have worked for two months as a teenager, so I could afford an amp. I bought a Marshall Valvestate 8080. I can now buy that amp second-hand for around €100.  :-[

gumbo

#46
..and I cringe at what I paid for (at the time) a new 1964 BF Fender Super Reverb...   I think I was earning about the equivalent of $15 a week as a 16-year-old Trainee Draftsman (but I did earn more playing in a band at nights..)   ;D

My mother, however, thought I was nuts....

...and no, I don't still have it.. :'(   
...but I have got a '59 RI Tweed Bassman that cost a whole lot less (proportionately) some thirty years later ;)


Guitars...well I won't talk about that just now...  ...far too annoying to think about what has come & gone...
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Elantric


In 2015 1000 Rockers performed simultaneously "Learn to Fly" by the Foo Fighters in Cesena - Italy.
The video got more than 32 million views and the Foos actually held a concert in town!
In 2016 we organized "That's Live" the first concert ever of the Biggest Rock Band on Earth!
1000 musicians, one stadium, playing the songs that made the glorious History of Rock!
This is the first official video of one of these songs ⚡ "Rebel Rebel" by David Bowie ⚡

CodeSmart

Quote from: Dream_Theory on July 09, 2016, 08:25:59 PM
our our own beloved Rob Marcello, may his 13 pins never require DeOxit, as he is listed in Wikipedia under American Heavy Metal Guitarists. I thought he hailed from Örebro, as did my other grandmother. Yo Rob we could be distant cousins!

Yes correct, Robert Wendelstam (Rob Marcello) is from Örebro (in Sweden) a city abt. 50 minuters from here, according to our localized version of Wikipedia.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

vanceg

Quote from: Dream_Theory on May 25, 2016, 05:57:36 PM
Well if you are in Erbusco, Italy on June 30, stop by and catch Al Di Meola playing at Cantina Bellavista. Then tell us if electric guitar is dead!

I really enjoyed Al Di Meola until I saw him live.  Perhaps I had too much wrapped up in seeing him... but I walked out with exactly the feeling that "this instrument is dead.  If the  peak of what people want to do on this instrument is that... I have no interest".  I was crushed at how athletic and uninspired it sounded to my ears.  It turned out to be a massively inspirational and positive event, though - so much so that I credit that show for helping me make the biggest shift in my playing and relation to music to that date.  It made me realize that I didn't even WANT to do the activities that people call "getting good at guitar".  I wanted to do something else.

Now, please don't get me wrong:  I wouldn't dare to imply that I could have ever become as proficient as Mr DiMeola, or that my music would ever move as many people as his has in his long, illustrious and very impressive career, OR that somehow what I've decided to do with the guitar is even half as interesting to many other people as his playing.  My only point is that the very same person who is the most inspiring as a proof that the instrument is alive and well to one person, made another person feel like "yep, guitar is dead".  BOTH interpretations inspired us to play more.

I'd say that's an instrument with a LOT of life left in it!